Syrian Refugee Thread Deleted??

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Iraq and Afghanistan were great successes. I'm sure Syria would be too...

Not to mention Libya.....

[timel]

Iraq and Afghanistan were great successes. I'm sure Syria would be too...

It always looks good on paper.


I agree with 7ECA, the whole foreign intervention against terrorism and the pro-democracy policy is a failure and a joke. There is a serious need for new strategies.

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[7ECA]

I am not advocating an isolationist policy (which mind you the US did take pre-WW1 and post-WW1 - only to realize that war is great so give 'er). Rather I am advocating a policy where we take care of ourselves and our allies when they need support.

I suspect 3,600 casualties and the loss of four capital ships and nearly 200 aircraft at Pearl Harbour did more to bring the U.S. into the war as an active combatant. Less a sudden epiphany that "war is great, so give 'er."

I tend to disagree, mainly looking back at the Great War experience. The US entered the war in 1917, apparently due to the sinking of US ships during the German unrestricted warfare campaign in the Atlantic. The US had apparently been neutral up to this time - when in actual fact they were arming the British and French, and profiting handily from doing so.

During the Second World War, the US was again making a great deal of money from arming and supporting the British, first they "allowed" the British to purchase arms and equipment using the British Pound, and then as the value of the Pound began to fall they demanded payment in gold bullion. Eventually the British negotiated the Lend-Lease agreement - of course not before the Americans had profited once again from a war.

Why did the US get involved actively in World War Two, obviously Pearl Harbour being attacked allowed the US to more easily break their so-called neutrality and get in - once again allowing the military industrial complex to have a field day (which continued into the Cold War, and to this day).

But let us also consider the so called tactical victory that the Japanese won at Pearl. The US Pacific Fleet, or more specifically what was based at Pearl around that time was an old and more or less obsolete fleet. Old, tired ships, with less than modern weaponry. The US needed to dock and refit the works before they became a threat to any modern fleet. And as for all the ships damaged and sunk during the attack, only two were destroyed. The first was the USS Arizona, a battleship from the First World War, and the USS Utah which was a decommissioned First World War battleship that was being used as a target ship. Every other ship was re-floated, repaired, and sent back into action - except for the USS Oklahoma, which was re-floated, but decommissioned/scrapped, and then sunk in 1947 while being towed to the breakers.

[crazyaviator]

Can one name a single country in the West in which the significant influx of Muslims has not been accompanied by severe social strain? Can one name any country affected in the same way by Hindu immigration?

Those willing to open their minds will find that, regardless of the excuse-du-jour, the remarkably wide-spread level of narcissism, repression and violence is deeply ingrained in the teachings, double standards and early history of the Islamic religion. While there is not a single verse in the Quran that commands love for those outside Islam, there are nearly 500 that either promote violence or allude to Allah's hatred for unbelievers - in a book that is largely about how to think of and deal harshly with those outside the "true" faith.

Why rely on rosy platitudes and carefully-edited fragments of Quran verses from apologists when Islam speaks so well for itself? Beyond the whitewashing are obvious reasons why so many devotees do horrible things in the name of Allah, while most of the rest never seem to get terribly upset by it - busy as they are throwing tantrums and demanding for themselves what they explicitly deny others.

How much favor are we really doing Muslims by not challenging them to the sort of self-critique necessary for moral progress? How much favor are we doing ourselves by desperately trying to accommodate that which has no intention of accommodating us, or by continuing to sacrifice blood and budgets for those who hate us in return? Is it really in our best interests to assist the expansion within our own borders of a religion that is consistently incapable of building countries in which even Muslims themselves want to live?

Tolerance is a good thing, but not when we allow it to be used cynically against us by those who have no use for it once they obtain power. We need to back away from the altar of political correctness and throw out our preconceptions. We need to embrace critical thinking.

The truth is that Islam is not a religion of peace and it is not like other religion. Sometimes the truth isn't comfortable. Sometimes the truth offends. But it is far better that we offend others than lose our own freedom.

Taken from : The Religion of Peace- Islam

A few thousand years ago, it was commanded of the Israelites ( not the "jews" ) to : Not learn the ways of the heathen. not to incorporate their ways or worship their gods.

France now is a breeding ground for Islam and so-called radicals who go away and come back to kill, maim and murder. There is segregation and sharia law there. We know that countries like Sweden and Germany are either completely controlled by their dictators or are uttery brainwashed OR BOTH !!

This is NOT hate speech, it is truth! And im more than happy to house a family from Syria who would walk away from this bastardly religion and into the arms of love and respect for one another.

[tbaylx]

This about sums it up. Posted by a Muslim in Singapore. Left and right religious nutjobs need to be tuned out. Maybe one day humans will move on from worshipping various deities and stop killing people because some god told them that it was the right thing to do in their opinion.


Sulaiman Daud

November 14 at 5:32am · Singapore, Singapore · Edited ·
.

I want to thank well-meaning non-Muslims who, in the wake of these attacks, have emphasised that they have been carried out by a small, twisted minority. A terrorist's goal is to sow hatred and discord, and by not giving in, you are defeating their plans.

But I want to say that as a Muslim, I wish that we weren't so quick to emphasise that this has nothing to do with us. While I personally have never killed anyone and none of my friends and family have ever resorted to violence, radicalism has everything to do with Islam. And the failure to address that out of a well-intentioned commitment to tolerance is making the problem worse.

ISIS is a Muslim organisation, and it is an Islamic problem. Let me say it again to be perfectly clear. ISIS is a Muslim organisation, and they are a cancer at the heart of Islam. And the problem will not go away until Muslims confront that.

ISIS attackers scream 'Allah hu'akbar' during their attacks.
ISIS recruits cite Qur'anic verses as justification for the rape and enslavement of women.
ISIS soldiers kill archaeologists, gay men and women, and people who refuse to convert to Islam because they are blasphemers.

There are no Christians in ISIS. There are no Buddhists, Jews, Pagans, Taoists, Houngans, Catholics, Wiccans, Hindus or even Scientologists in ISIS. ISIS is a Muslim organisation and they kill in the name of Islam.

So don't say that ISIS aren't 'true Muslims' or that they are 'not really Muslims'. Like any large organisation, ISIS exists in a spectrum. You have the aimless, restless teenager who never amounted to anything in his life and traveled to Syria because he can't find a job and doesn't know if the Qur'an is to be read from left to right or right to left. But you also have pious professionals, businessmen, and academics who read their Qur'an cover to cover, pray every day, were seduced into radicalism, and truly believe that the Islamic State's goal of conquest is a noble one. The so-called 'Caliph' Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi has a doctorate in Islamic studies.

So if you feel that Muslims are being oppressed or killed in Muslim countries, I expect you to also be just as outraged by ISIS. Because they have killed more Muslims in Iraq, Syria and Jordan than the entire US army. They have done more damage to the name and reputation of Islam than any Western nation. ISIS is Islam's biggest enemy, not the US, not Israel or France or Germany or the Russians.

We have to own the problem. We have to admit that this is a religious problem, and we need to renew our commitment to a secular country which treats all religions equally. I have believed in the importance of secularism all my life, and with every day that passes that belief grows stronger. Religion is no way to govern a nation. Not any religion, and not any nation.

ISIS is not America's problem, nor the British, nor the French. ISIS is not Syria or Iraq's problem. ISIS is a problem for Muslims. And if you can't admit that, you're not really a good Muslim either.

[crazyaviator]

Excellent last post!
IF a christian did not believe and follow the new testament, they would be either a marginal christian, christian by name only or a fake christian.
IF a Muslim did not believe and follow the Quaran, they would be either a marginal muslim, muslim by name only or a fake muslim !
IRONICALLY, Following the Quaran will encourage and DEMAND of its adherent to think of all other unbelievers as scum, trash and unclean, will encourage physical violence against all non-muslims, raping little girls, slavery and lying and deceipt against non-believers. and ultimate world domination under Islam and sharia law.
All these things are Mohammads and according to him, Allahs wishes!!!
Like i've said before, throw the baby out with the bathwater

Just to keep on topic, It looks like we are pulling our CF-18 s out of the conflict region BRAVO Justin !!!

[crazyaviator]

Just to even the score, you might want to look up the crusades of the Catholic church in the dark ages to see another Cult religion and its ill effects upon the world

[Boreas]

Are we off oil yet? NO!? Well, lets do that!

Muslim extremism will die-down within one or two generation. The Middle East will be no different than SS Africa - not great, but much better.

Keep the the CF18s for when the Ruskies get creative in the Arctic.

[Strobes]

What the Middle East needs the most right now is stability.

Political, Economic, Environmental stability.

The US F'ed up by getting rid of the Talibans, Saddam Hussein, Muammar Ghadaffi, and now trying to get Bashr Al-Assad. All of these men, while dictators, were sources of stability in their countries. Yes, I know, mostly by crackdowns and repression, but sources of stability nonetheless.

AQ and ISIL are filling a power vacuum right now created by the removal of previous regimes. Now we see that they are building up in the Sinai and Tunisia too.

Whereas all the afore-mentioned governments fell, Al-Assad's government is the only one that still stands today. Al-Assad is the only source of stability in these countries affected by AQ and IS.

What the West SHOULD do, but THEY WON'T, is support Al-Assad. That's what Russia is doing right now - Putin is the only one not blinded by NATO politics.

Support Al-Assad, and provide help and aid on certain conditions (no crackdowns on captured areas, the stopping of barrel bombings by the SAF, etc), and you will find IS on the run within weeks. You will then find the tide of Syrian Refugees will stop, and IS weakened so bad that a few thousand Iraqi soldiers take back the North of their country.

[Strobes]

Are we off oil yet? NO!? Well, lets do that!

Muslim extremism will die-down within one or two generation. The Middle East will be no different than SS Africa - not great, but much better.

Keep the the CF18s for when the Ruskies get creative in the Arctic.

Good luck getting off oil. Oil has entered a downturn because of supply glut and will stay low for a long time. So the world will burn it.

Because of that, living conditions in the ME will go lower, and extremism will actually rise - "angry poor people looking for someone to blame". Kinda like Oct 19.

Russia will never become the superpower it was in the 20th century again in our lifetimes. Demographics, commodity extraction-based economy in a secular bear commodity market. I'm more worried about the US when it's society collapses in the next decades.

[timel]

Good luck getting off oil. Oil has entered a downturn because of supply glut and will stay low for a long time. So the world will burn it.

Because of that, living conditions in the ME will go lower, and extremism will actually rise - "angry poor people looking for someone to blame". Kinda like Oct 19.

I find it hard to believe the OPEC will crash itself to the ground, theoretically if the oil barrel stays at 50$, it is the end of Saudi Arabia in less than 5 years.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/25/investi ... ddle-east/

After all this years, I don't understand why those countries still have an oil dependent economy and yes the actual prices are hurting Iran and Russia as well.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Meanwhile:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4f3b5708-0903 ... z3rlieBqlQ

Saudi Arabia to boost defence spending by 27% over five years

Saudi Arabia is on track to become the world’s fifth-largest military spender by 2020 as it boosts its defence budget by 27 per cent over the next five years despite lower oil prices.

Other sources claim Saudi Defence spending is already in third place.....

[scopiton]

Just to even the score, you might want to look up the crusades of the Catholic church in the dark ages to see another Cult religion and its ill effects upon the world

One can think that current conflict opposing orient and occident has its roots in the very first crusade and from bad political decisions concerning this region and its tribes since WWII.

[Takeoff OK]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/384980/

[crazyaviator]

One final note on Comparisons:

A TRUE muslim will wage wars, will practice slavery, will rape, will treat women as chattel, will look down on all other peoples, will kill other muslims for apostacy, will lie and cheat to non-believers, and will subjucate christians and "jews" with a tax and as a conquered people. The reason WHY they are to do this is that it is in their holy books!!!!! ALL others are apostate muslims!

A TRUE christian will be righteous ( not lie, steal, abuse, commit adultery, hate, follow organized cults, etc etc) A true christian is willing to die for the truth, be a martyr, live an honest life even if it results in poverty and suffering. THIS is in the NEW testament of the bible, A christians holy book ALL others are APOSTATE christians !

Truth HURTS ! Starting to see a picture here?

[Boreas]

One final note on Comparisons:

A TRUE muslim will wage wars, will practice slavery, will rape, will treat women as chattel, will look down on all other peoples, will kill other muslims for apostacy, will lie and cheat to non-believers, and will subjucate christians and "jews" with a tax and as a conquered people. The reason WHY they are to do this is that it is in their holy books!!!!! ALL others are apostate muslims!

A TRUE christian will be righteous ( not lie, steal, abuse, commit adultery, hate, follow organized cults, etc etc) A true christian is willing to die for the truth, be a martyr, live an honest life even if it results in poverty and suffering. THIS is in the NEW testament of the bible, A christians holy book ALL others are APOSTATE christians !

Truth HURTS ! Starting to see a picture here?

Yeah but it's 2015, and all of those mentioned above are religious idiots. Maybe Muslims and Christians can come together over that.

[HiLo]

A "true" Christian will also kill people for being gay or for being on Ashley Madison. Instead of pretending religion is a choice on a restoraunt menu (I'll have Islam with a side of bombs, or Christianity with a side of righteousness), imagine each religion to be a buffet: you get to pick and chose what you want (you can eat at the Muslim buffet and not take the spicy choices).

[Mr. North]

Are we off oil yet? NO!? Well, lets do that!

Muslim extremism will die-down within one or two generation. The Middle East will be no different than SS Africa - not great, but much better.

Because of that, living conditions in the ME will go lower, and extremism will actually rise - "angry poor people looking for someone to blame". Kinda like Oct 19.

Russia will never become the superpower it was in the 20th century again in our lifetimes. Demographics, commodity extraction-based economy in a secular bear commodity market. I'm more worried about the US when it's society collapses in the next decades.

I'm a couple rums in but let me just add this...

The borders that define the Middle East were drawn by imperial Britain, France, and Italy. They purposely divided religions and cultures in order to maintain the upper hand. Now that imperialism is long gone what we'll witness over the next few decades is a total readjustment of the ME. Trying to enforce these imperialistic borders could very well be counter productive in the long run and only lead to more sectarian violence and civil wars.

Provided the US electorate vote for the right individuals, the US will not collapse. I'm an optimist but the good old USofA will not just fold like a cheap tent. Do I see some major political reforms occurring, for sure. If either outsiders (Trump or Sanders) get elected, it will be a game changer for the US electoral system. But I do not see a full scale collapse.

Regarding Russia, did you know that with the collapse of the USSR, 25 million Russian civilians were stateless in the lost eastern block territories? So when Putin talks about protecting Russian populations in foreign countries (ie Ukraine) it's a legitimate concern. Since the collapse, Russia has been treated like a drunken disaster of a country by the western powers. NATO should have been dissolved at the end of the Cold War but instead they've expanded right up to Russia's borders. The latest actions by Russia is their attempt to tell the world that they remain relevant and that their sphere of influence should be respected. If Mexico became a failed state, and Russia was some how peddling influence with anti-US rebels, how do you think the USA would react? I imagine their actions would mirror those of Russia's right now.

What's interesting now is Turkey (NATO member state) downing a Russian fighter jet. How will the west respond? I'm not a huge fan of Trudeau's forgein policy but I'm glad he did not pick sides in the immediate fallout.

[complexintentions]

What if we threw a party for 25,000 refugees, and no one came?

Canada is finding that many Syrian refugees are reluctant to travel so far afield, a stumbling block as the country works to identify thousands of newcomers to bring here within a matter of months.

Initial efforts in November by the United Nations to find Syrians in refugee camps keen on rapidly relocating thousands of kilometres to Canada as government-sponsored refugees bore relatively little fruit, new figures released by Ottawa show.

Only about 6.3 per cent of refugees contacted indicated they were interested in coming to Canada when the UN got in touch with them between Nov. 18 and 26. This was chiefly in Jordan but also in Lebanon.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e27561756/

The refugee situation is not amusing. But the thought that JT and friends never even considered that maybe not everyone even WANTS to come to Canada, is...

[YYZSaabGuy]

The refugee situation is not amusing. But the thought that JT and friends never even considered that maybe not everyone even WANTS to come to Canada, is...

Go ahead, CI, say it: "funny" is the word you're looking for. In fairness, they were likely busy with their rethinking of elements as basic as space and time, and going all science fictiony on us, in this sense.