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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:40 am 
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I am bilingual and I think that this is the beauty of learning a second and even third language. Imagine going to the Mexico on a layover and not being able to get around, or France and not being able to ask for directions, or whatever country you may fly to.

I think our careers sort of require of us to be curious about foreign vocabulary. No need to be fluent or entirely proficient, however it sure helps and makes getting around a lot more interesting. It's easy to sit on the bench and say, ...why do I have to put an extra effort to learn another language ? The way I see it, it just opens up a whole world of possibilities. Now imagine taking a french class or a spanish class and being able to add that to your resume. It might not seal the deal, but it can't hurt.
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“We Americans are reluctant to learn a foreign language of our own species, let alone another species. But imagine the possibilities. Imagine the access we would have to different perspectives, the things we might see through other eyes, the wisdom that surrounds us. We don’t have to figure out everything by ourselves: there are intelligences other than our own, teachers all around us.''
― Robin Wall Kimmerer,



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:05 pm 
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Sounds wonderful. But the reality, is, if Air Inuit all of a sudden said bilingual still required, english and our native language, the people saying these wonderful things would be royally pissed off, at least the ones aiming to get in there. Nice, when it works in your favour though. Just like the TFW has been wonderful.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:48 pm 
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Sorry to deceive you DH8classics, but Air Inuit require to be bilingual, you have to be english - french, english - inuktituk or french - inuktituk.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Taxi wrote:
Sorry to deceive you DH8classics, but Air Inuit require to be bilingual, you have to be english - french, english - inuktituk or french - inuktituk.


Thanks for the clarification. So in reality, the same people who move on to AT with their restrictions plus a few local natives.



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Air Canada just announced they will be giving priority to candidates with a degree, how dare they list something I don't have, this must exclude at least 60% of all Canadian pilots.
Dh8, you're getting to be ridiculous in your singleminded agenda against Transat. We get it, a company in Quebec with a good deal of French speaking employees would prefer to hire a pilot who speaks French, it truly is no different than Air Canada preferring a degree, both are attainable.
Oh and @#$! off with your support of Sunwings abuse of the TFW program!



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:12 am 
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mbav8r wrote:
Air Canada just announced they will be giving priority to candidates with a degree, how dare they list something I don't have, this must exclude at least 60% of all Canadian pilots.
Dh8, you're getting to be ridiculous in your singleminded agenda against Transat. We get it, a company in Quebec with a good deal of French speaking employees would prefer to hire a pilot who speaks French, it truly is no different than Air Canada preferring a degree, both are attainable.
Oh and @#$! off with your support of Sunwings abuse of the TFW program!


Preference is fine. AC likely will give extra points to a similarly qualified candidate for being bilingual. No problem with that. And a few extra points for similarly qualified with a degree, no problem with that. But it is not a listed requirement. I see though that you are now using any desperate excuse to justify the situation.

Anyways, the TFW thing is working great and Sunwing is open to all. Good news for the future in a tine when the low dollar will inevitable curtail foreign travel.



Last edited by Dh8Classic on Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:15 am 
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First of all, not desperate nor an excuse to justify anything, I don't work for AT and I don't speak French. I am capable of reasoned thinking and see it for what it is, a preference, that's it, no different than the degree preference.
I am done with this, you've done nothing but prove your ignorance and attempt to incite anger with your support of an extremely controversial topic and the fact you support it, speaks volumes of what we're dealing with, like someone else said, AT dodged a huge bullet by not hiring you!



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:07 am 
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mbav8r wrote:
First of all, not desperate nor an excuse to justify anything, I don't work for AT and I don't speak French. I am capable of reasoned thinking and see it for what it is, a preference, that's it, no different than the degree preference.
I am done with this, you've done nothing but prove your ignorance and attempt to incite anger with your support of an extremely controversial topic and the fact you support it, speaks volumes of what we're dealing with, like someone else said, AT dodged a huge bullet by not hiring you!


Proving myself to be correct by showing the hiring requirements as published by the company is hardly ignorance. As you state, the topic is extremely controversial. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.

It appears that as I prove myself to be generally correct, persons such as yourself are left with nothing but personal insults such as changing my handle or making statements like your closing remarks which only shows how you have been proven wrong and have nothing else useful to state.

As if a few extra points given to people of any language who happen to have a degree is comparable. Actual statements, as you have acknowledged earlier in this thread from actual people that it appears may have been discriminated against(this came from a link I posted earlier) seem to back up my position.

But TFW has helped them get onto Sunwing and perhaps captain very soon. I am very happy for them.



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:55 am 
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Hello,

A little off topic but does any Sunwing pilots know who I need to contact for employee travel discounts. We don't have an agreement but was wondering if Sunwing will offer discounts to flightcrew.

Thanks

Jet



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:07 pm 
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I hate to detract from the French/English debate (not really), does anybody know Sunwings hiring intentions for the year?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:05 pm 
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tallyho wrote:
I hate to detract from the French/English debate (not really), does anybody know Sunwings hiring intentions for the year?


Initial estimates were for another 80+ seasonal pilots for next winter. Not sure if that is still the plan going forward or not.



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:43 pm 
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tbaylx wrote:
tallyho wrote:
I hate to detract from the French/English debate (not really), does anybody know Sunwings hiring intentions for the year?


Initial estimates were for another 80+ seasonal pilots for next winter. Not sure if that is still the plan going forward or not.


But are the 80+ seasonal pilots from this winter getting laid off ?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:18 pm 
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It wouldn't surprise me. Isn't that what you wanted Gilles? Pilots hired in the fall and then laid off in the spring.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:12 pm 
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Quote:
But are the 80+ seasonal pilots from this winter getting laid off ?


From this winter, No layoffs of seasonal pilots.

They have been given full-time positions, as for next winters seasonal pilots! We have no idea, much to early for that.

I wonder how those Foreign pilots on the TVS wet leases worked out for Air Transat this year? 30+ Foreign pilots, 2 aircraft this year, maybe 4 or 5 aircraft next year.



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:52 am 
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Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
tbaylx wrote:
tallyho wrote:
I hate to detract from the French/English debate (not really), does anybody know Sunwings hiring intentions for the year?


Initial estimates were for another 80+ seasonal pilots for next winter. Not sure if that is still the plan going forward or not.


But are the 80+ seasonal pilots from this winter getting laid off ?


They took almost all of them full time, so very few layoffs from the 80+ they hired.



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:08 am 
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Great news

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:24 am 
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tbaylx wrote:
tallyho wrote:
does anybody know Sunwings hiring intentions for the year?


Initial estimates were for another 80+ seasonal pilots for next winter. Not sure if that is still the plan going forward or not.


Wow, 80 this year and possibly 80 next year. I bet the majority of them would not have met the strict requirements of the OTHER airline. And Rouge just keeps on expanding to leisure destinations. They will give a few extra points for speaking both official languages(which is fine) but do not exclude the other 75% of us. And as the article below shows, WJ is making big moves on the Gatwick market providing some great opportunities. And their hiring policy is wonderful as well.

Great times for what is just and right.

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2015/9/15/WestJe ... ndon-.aspx



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:04 pm 
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:roll: :roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Dh8Classic wrote:
tbaylx wrote:
tallyho wrote:
does anybody know Sunwings hiring intentions for the year?


Initial estimates were for another 80+ seasonal pilots for next winter. Not sure if that is still the plan going forward or not.


Wow, 80 this year and possibly 80 next year. I bet the majority of them would not have met the strict requirements of the OTHER airline. And Rouge just keeps on expanding to leisure destinations. They will give a few extra points for speaking both official languages(which is fine) but do not exclude the other 75% of us. And as the article below shows, WJ is making big moves on the Gatwick market providing some great opportunities. And their hiring policy is wonderful as well.

Great times for what is just and right.

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2015/9/15/WestJe ... ndon-.aspx


I can GURANTEE that all of the Air Transat pilots that read this site are probably thinking the EXACT same thing. Thank god they did not hire you, regardless of your language skills and hired other anglos with a MUCH better attitude. I don't think that I have EVER seen anyone so bitter and jaded for not being hired with an airline. Brutal!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:32 am 
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:roll: :roll: :roll:

Added comment.

Aren't these posters who disagree with me just wonderful human beings. First, they deny that there is any bias in hiring and that there is no restriction for the majority of us. Then when I prove that I am right by showing the actual hiring requirements(bilingual required which eliminates the vast majority of non-Quebecers), we are called lazy, and insulted for complaining. BAE146 who posted below doesn't want to fly with me as I complained. Confuzed who was outright lying about me being wrong about the requirements calls us bitter for basically never getting an fair opportunity based on experience as seen by earlier guys who were qualified not getting called. In other words, their only statements now are insults. I was mostly right all along if not completely right.

I try to be reasonable and say that I have no problem with extra points given to someone who is bilingual and therefore when it comes to two similar candidates, the bilingual one gets the job and insults are given in return, probably by those who benefit or have the potential to benefit from the present policy.

That is how it is for the majority of you guys out there. Just like the affirmative action programs. Complain because your higher marks didn't get you into University due to not being the right colour and you are a racist. Maybe I am one as well, based on this thread.

Oh well, I am still happy at all the opportunities at Rouge, WJ, and Sunwing which seems to be where the near future opportunities are. Perhaps others are bitter at that but I am quite pleased.

Flame away but I am happy. 8) 8) 8)



Last edited by Dh8Classic on Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:08 pm 
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Strongly agree with the previous comment DH8... I am bilingual and so glad to not have to work with someone like you.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:23 am 
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Dh8Classic wrote:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Added comment.

Aren't these posters who disagree with me just wonderful human beings. First, they deny that there is any bias in hiring and that there is no restriction for the majority of us. Then when I prove that I am right by showing the actual hiring requirements(bilingual required which eliminates the vast majority of non-Quebecers), we are called lazy, and insulted for complaining. BAE146 who posted below doesn't want to fly with me as I complained. Confuzed who was outright lying about me being wrong about the requirements calls us bitter for basically never getting an fair opportunity based on experience as seen by earlier guys who were qualified not getting called. In other words, their only statements now are insults. I was mostly right all along if not completely right.

I try to be reasonable and say that I have no problem with extra points given to someone who is bilingual and therefore when it comes to two similar candidates, the bilingual one gets the job and insults are given in return, probably by those who benefit or have the potential to benefit from the present policy.

That is how it is for the majority of you guys out there. Just like the affirmative action programs. Complain because your higher marks didn't get you into University due to not being the right colour and you are a racist. Maybe I am one as well, based on this thread.

Oh well, I am still happy at all the opportunities at Rouge, WJ, and Sunwing which seems to be where the near future opportunities are. Perhaps others are bitter at that but I am quite pleased.

Flame away but I am happy. 8) 8) 8)


Never said you were lying, and I actually just reread your post. So you are calling me a liar now because I can prove to you that this airline hires pure Anglophones who do not speak a word of French? Wow......you sure are something else.

I said that just because it says it is a requirement does NOT mean that you are disqualified because you do not have it. I also said that like many companies (even those non aviation related) put down qualities that they would LIKE to see in a candidate. Before you start jumping on top of your soapbox, you need to get a sense of these VERY simple things to comprehend.

:?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:20 am 
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This English/French argument at Transat is rightfully based on a past practice, however it has very obviously/ factually changed. The reason why Transat currently has reference to French in its company culture is because it is a Quebec based company, and has deep historical ties to Quebec and French Canadiens. With that being said if you were to head up to any 703 carrier in the north of Quebec and you didn't speak French or even possibly weren't a "Quebecker" you most likely won't get the job. However nepotism is the accepted vetting process that we use here in Canada. In fact Air Canada used to be the only Canadian company that was bilingual and that's only because they were legally required to be. Fact is that as soon as you leave Canada (exempt Quebec) and the US, Aviation turns into a very multilingual industry. We all love using our token words when we check in to non English controllers around the world. Lets start thinking bigger then what's in front of our face and what we know. For example, it has never been easier to get a safe, and professional flying job here in Canada. And yet there are so many that are judging and pointing fingers. Chances are we all have a friend(s)who work at anyone of the Canadian airlines out there. When ur sitting at the bar having a beer does it matter what colour their tie is? Go back to 2001 and ask anyone where the industry was and the struggles of keeping your job or worst getting a job, doing anything.

Let's all take the ties off and go back to throwing bags, there was so much less drama.

Now where is the whiskey!



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:48 pm 
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I dont know about what past you refer to because when I got hired in Oct 1998, 18 years ago, in our 757 ground school of 18 new hires, there were several anglos, some of which spoke no French. They were Air Atlantic guys. Having flown the BAE-146, most of them made left seat in short order.
In a L-1011 class of about 10 candidates the following month, in Nov 1998, they were also some that spoke no French. When I started flying the 757, as an F/O in Dec 1998, I flew with several Air Transat 757 captains that spoke no French.
Proportionally, we have no less anglos that WestJet has Francophones......


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:55 pm 
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confuzed wrote:
Dh8Classic wrote:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Added comment.

Aren't these posters who disagree with me just wonderful human beings. First, they deny that there is any bias in hiring and that there is no restriction for the majority of us. Then when I prove that I am right by showing the actual hiring requirements(bilingual required which eliminates the vast majority of non-Quebecers), we are called lazy, and insulted for complaining. BAE146 who posted below doesn't want to fly with me as I complained. Confuzed who was outright lying about me being wrong about the requirements calls us bitter for basically never getting an fair opportunity based on experience as seen by earlier guys who were qualified not getting called. In other words, their only statements now are insults. I was mostly right all along if not completely right.

I try to be reasonable and say that I have no problem with extra points given to someone who is bilingual and therefore when it comes to two similar candidates, the bilingual one gets the job and insults are given in return, probably by those who benefit or have the potential to benefit from the present policy.

That is how it is for the majority of you guys out there. Just like the affirmative action programs. Complain because your higher marks didn't get you into University due to not being the right colour and you are a racist. Maybe I am one as well, based on this thread.

Oh well, I am still happy at all the opportunities at Rouge, WJ, and Sunwing which seems to be where the near future opportunities are. Perhaps others are bitter at that but I am quite pleased.

Flame away but I am happy. 8) 8) 8)


Never said you were lying, and I actually just reread your post. So you are calling me a liar now because I can prove to you that this airline hires pure Anglophones who do not speak a word of French? Wow......you sure are something else.

I said that just because it says it is a requirement does NOT mean that you are disqualified because you do not have it. I also said that like many companies (even those non aviation related) put down qualities that they would LIKE to see in a candidate. Before you start jumping on top of your soapbox, you need to get a sense of these VERY simple things to comprehend.

:?


Interesting So the requirements say that you need a Canadian pilots license but perhaps that is not a requirement either. What about being a Canadian citizen(or having the right to work in Canada)? Speaking of simple, why would they say that certain things are a requirement if they are not a requirement? Saying they have certain preferences would make perfect sense just like AC does.

Still happy of course these days though.



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