PICUS at the regionals

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goleafsgo
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PICUS at the regionals

Post by goleafsgo » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:33 am

Do any of the regionals (Jazz, Skyregional, Georgian) offer PICUS. I know a lot of guys lately getting hired at Jazz with only FO time so was just curious.
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Mône
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by Mône » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:34 pm

I only know about Jazz, and it does have a PICUS program.
I do not know about other companies.
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sanjet
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by sanjet » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:55 pm

Skyregional currently does not have a PIC US program.
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iflyroads
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by iflyroads » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:09 pm

GGN does and so does EVAS from what I understand.
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Boreas
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by Boreas » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:00 pm

I never really understood the whole PICUS thing. Aside from it being there to benefit the particular airlines, it seem to be nothing more than an oxymoron.

Is there a PICUS column people log this time under? Also, just out of curiosity, how long have these programs been around in Canada?
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by PositiveRate27 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:32 am

CMA Has a PICUS program as well.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:52 am

Scary thought, folks getting into these positions with only make believe PIC time :shock:
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iflyroads
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by iflyroads » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:11 pm

Boreas wrote:I never really understood the whole PICUS thing. Aside from it being there to benefit the particular airlines, it seem to be nothing more than an oxymoron.

Is there a PICUS column people log this time under? Also, just out of curiosity, how long have these programs been around in Canada?
PICUS comes in handy when a 250 hour pilot has just started flying at one of the above mentioned operations and doesn't have the specific PIC time to get his/her ATPL signed off. I have heard rumours though that TC has rejected some peoples X-Country night pic time because it was PICUS. These are just rumours though not sure if they are true.

As for a specific column the people I know have just logged it under their PIC column. For Jazz and GGN I believe this program came around 2013 (give or take a year)
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by rxl » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:13 pm

My understanding is that only half of the PICUS time can be used towards a higher licence.
I'm not sure how helpful these PICUS programs are in reality. PICUS can only be logged with an approved company check pilot who, in most cases, don't have a whole lot of extra time in their schedules for this. I suppose it all depends on how much of a priority it is for the company.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by PositiveRate27 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:20 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:Scary thought, folks getting into these positions with only make believe PIC time :shock:

A valid thought, however it is quite useful for cases like mine where I needed 5 hours of night xc PIC for my A's. At the time I was flying 5 hours a night in the right seat. Was spending the better part of $1000 to rent a 172 gonna make the difference in my decision making as a 1900 skipper? A bit of paperwork and I had my A's in hand.

The amount of PICUS you can log does not meet the minimum PIC requirements for the ATPL so the 250hr FO's still have to get some PIC time from somewhere else before they can upgrade.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:06 pm

Personally I'd like to see that 1000hrs of the 1500 are single pilot PIC hours, it's a different game when you're the first and last word on the outcome of every flight.

I'm might be biased though as all of my 4,000+hrs, minus my initial dual time for my initial PPL stuff, have been all single pilot PIC, but I just can't wrap my head around these euro style systems where someone who hardly has enough time to get a C182 drop zone pilot job lands right seat in a airbus or something.

Just seems like these guys didn't come up from a solid foundation, the zero to hero / fake it till you make it style of pilot progression is asking for trouble.

PositiveRate27 wrote:
SuperchargedRS wrote:Scary thought, folks getting into these positions with only make believe PIC time :shock:

A valid thought, however it is quite useful for cases like mine where I needed 5 hours of night xc PIC for my A's. At the time I was flying 5 hours a night in the right seat. Was spending the better part of $1000 to rent a 172 gonna make the difference in my decision making as a 1900 skipper? A bit of paperwork and I had my A's in hand.

The amount of PICUS you can log does not meet the minimum PIC requirements for the ATPL so the 250hr FO's still have to get some PIC time from somewhere else before they can upgrade.
Why not get paid for those hours you needed? Not that hard to find a job that needs a pilot or instructor for a little night ops?
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by PositiveRate27 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:01 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:Personally I'd like to see that 1000hrs of the 1500 are single pilot PIC hours, it's a different game when you're the first and last word on the outcome of every flight.

I'm might be biased though as all of my 4,000+hrs, minus my initial dual time for my initial PPL stuff, have been all single pilot PIC, but I just can't wrap my head around these euro style systems where someone who hardly has enough time to get a C182 drop zone pilot job lands right seat in a airbus or something.

Just seems like these guys didn't come up from a solid foundation, the zero to hero / fake it till you make it style of pilot progression is asking for trouble.

PositiveRate27 wrote:
SuperchargedRS wrote:Scary thought, folks getting into these positions with only make believe PIC time :shock:

A valid thought, however it is quite useful for cases like mine where I needed 5 hours of night xc PIC for my A's. At the time I was flying 5 hours a night in the right seat. Was spending the better part of $1000 to rent a 172 gonna make the difference in my decision making as a 1900 skipper? A bit of paperwork and I had my A's in hand.

The amount of PICUS you can log does not meet the minimum PIC requirements for the ATPL so the 250hr FO's still have to get some PIC time from somewhere else before they can upgrade.
Why not get paid for those hours you needed? Not that hard to find a job that needs a pilot or instructor for a little night ops?
Really? While working full time flying 70-80 hrs a month at a 704? Take unpaid leave or use up vacation time to get paid far less for the measly 5 hours instead of signing a few documents and applying for my A's and then upgrading to captain?


There are plenty of 250hr pilots who do take LOA's to fly dive planes, instruct etc to make up the PIC time.

My point is the PICUS program does have its legitimate and safe uses to people who need just a hand full of hours to tick one final box.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:22 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Really? While working full time flying 70-80 hrs a month at a 704? Take unpaid leave or use up vacation time to get paid far less for the measly 5 hours instead of signing a few documents and applying for my A's and then upgrading to captain?


There are plenty of 250hr pilots who do take LOA's to fly dive planes, instruct etc to make up the PIC time.

My point is the PICUS program does have its legitimate and safe uses to people who need just a hand full of hours to tick one final box.
Just because it's legal doesn't necessarily make it legit.

If you're an instructor you could have snuck a couple hours in, or could your company of put you on a couple night flights without taking time off.

Whatever works, but IMHO PICUS is only one degree above just pencil whipping PIC hours up.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by PositiveRate27 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:25 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
PositiveRate27 wrote:
Really? While working full time flying 70-80 hrs a month at a 704? Take unpaid leave or use up vacation time to get paid far less for the measly 5 hours instead of signing a few documents and applying for my A's and then upgrading to captain?


There are plenty of 250hr pilots who do take LOA's to fly dive planes, instruct etc to make up the PIC time.

My point is the PICUS program does have its legitimate and safe uses to people who need just a hand full of hours to tick one final box.
Just because it's legal doesn't necessarily make it legit.

If you're an instructor you could have snuck a couple hours in, or could your company of put you on a couple night flights without taking time off.

Whatever works, but IMHO PICUS is only one degree above just pencil whipping PIC hours up.
I would have needed to renew my instructor rating, and find a student that was willing to fly with a random dude who doesn't work for the flight school for the sole purpose of padding his log book. Should I have convinced a skydive outfit to train me up on their aircraft to fly 5 hours? Oh wait, skydivers and tow planes don't fly at night. Should I have spent $800 which I didn't have, flying an aircraft which has little in comparison with the operation I was working in?

The best option was to take advantage of the PICUS program and actually fly the aircraft I was about to upgrade on, at night, with an experienced captain discussing some hazards of flying at night in the mountains. That is what PICUS is for.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: PICUS at the regionals

Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:33 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
SuperchargedRS wrote:
PositiveRate27 wrote:
Really? While working full time flying 70-80 hrs a month at a 704? Take unpaid leave or use up vacation time to get paid far less for the measly 5 hours instead of signing a few documents and applying for my A's and then upgrading to captain?


There are plenty of 250hr pilots who do take LOA's to fly dive planes, instruct etc to make up the PIC time.

My point is the PICUS program does have its legitimate and safe uses to people who need just a hand full of hours to tick one final box.
Just because it's legal doesn't necessarily make it legit.

If you're an instructor you could have snuck a couple hours in, or could your company of put you on a couple night flights without taking time off.

Whatever works, but IMHO PICUS is only one degree above just pencil whipping PIC hours up.
I would have needed to renew my instructor rating, and find a student that was willing to fly with a random dude who doesn't work for the flight school for the sole purpose of padding his log book. Should I have convinced a skydive outfit to train me up on their aircraft to fly 5 hours? Oh wait, skydivers and tow planes don't fly at night. Should I have spent $800 which I didn't have, flying an aircraft which has little in comparison with the operation I was working in?

The best option was to take advantage of the PICUS program and actually fly the aircraft I was about to upgrade on, at night, with an experienced captain discussing some hazards of flying at night in the mountains. That is what PICUS is for.
True, but when the rubber meets the road you were NOT PIC on that flight, yet you log it as this quasi PIC time to get the next rating. It's legal, but it's not any form of honest / real PIC time.

Not trying to come off as a jerk to you, it's just the PICUS should be logged a dual instruction on being PIC, or maybe SIC upgrade training, fact of the matter is the other dude was the real PIC. Just a funny way for the airline to skirt the regs to fill seats without having to hire more experienced (see expensive) flight crews.
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