New Flt Crew Regs

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x-wind
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New Flt Crew Regs

Post by x-wind »

Garneau said new refs are coming in a phone interview.

http://www.pilotcareercenter.com/Aviati ... egulations


Looking forward to it, sure hope it doesn't equate to more days away though.
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mato
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by mato »

I'm all for some positive changes... But as a commuter does this just mean I will work more days in a month, with shorter duty to make up the same hours? All those high credit days will be gone! I think this will effect some crews who try to maximize the days off and that will be a bummer!
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toelessjoe
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by toelessjoe »

mato wrote:I'm all for some positive changes... But as a commuter does this just mean I will work more days in a month, with shorter duty to make up the same hours? All those high credit days will be gone! I think this will effect some crews who try to maximize the days off and that will be a bummer!
Nailed it. This will actually affect our lives in a negative fashion IMHO.

Tieless.
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Thorjones
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by Thorjones »

on the upside though it may spur some even more hiring for pilots? But this could increase company costs and create a need for even lower wages :?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by goingnowherefast »

I've got nothing against 14 hour days, as long as there isn't a bunch in a row. I want to see the system where there's a limit on duty hours within the past 7 days, 30 days, etc.

How about something like this:
80 duty hours in 7 days
300 duty hours in 30 days
1500 duty hours in 180 days
2500 duty hours in 365 days

Allows the float/helicopter guys to work hard all summer and have the winter off. Then keeps the pace sustainable for non seasonal flying.
It also fixes the days off problem. Either crews are limited to ~8hr duty days with a dumb rotation, or they can have a good rotation with ~12 hour duty days. Effectively gets rid of the on call 14 days on, 3 off by making the duty days uselessly short.

I also liked the last proposal where starting time affected max duty time. A 14 hour day started at 4pm really sucks, but a 14 hour day started at 7am is okay.
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mato
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by mato »

Thorjones wrote:on the upside though it may spur some even more hiring for pilots? But this could increase company costs and create a need for even lower wages :?
I don't know if it would actually equate to more pilots on the roster. Anywhere you have pilots that get 10 or 12 GDO/month where they get blocked with an actual 14-16 days off are just going to have the longer 14 hour days split into those remaining 4 extra days off that were scheduled. The flying itself has not increased we are just spreading things out.

So unless you are getting worked like crazy with only 10 days off a month at your company. Maybe The "NewLeaf" type operations will need to rethink how many crews are required but everywhere else should be able to just re-arrange the resources they already have. On the bright side it will probably equate to extra perdiems! lol
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timel
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by timel »

What is the process the government has to follow in order to make those new rules effective?

Will it come out again as a notice of proposed amendment? If yes, what is the next step after that?
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bobcaygeon
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by bobcaygeon »

This is going to add more days worked for flight crew sitting in exotic locals like Grand Prairie and Kapuskasing instead of at home because of the low "credit" type days and will be expensive for the operator's because they'll need more bodies to cover the 0600-2300 time window that most pax flights operate domestically.

It will all eventually get passed on to the customer and the playing field will be fair at the upper levels but at the lower levels TC still can't apply the existing regs consistently within
a region and they've been around since 1996.

TC also has no money to actually enact any of these changes so their front line people will get to manage the changes with no resources either.
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fish4life
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by fish4life »

Honestly it's going to suck, some of the rules are good but having to work 20+ days a month is going to be more fatiguing than the current system.
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Marinth
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by Marinth »

timel wrote:What is the process the government has to follow in order to make those new rules effective?

Will it come out again as a notice of proposed amendment? If yes, what is the next step after that?
Just got an email from the CARAC. Next step is in the spring of 2017 when the Gazette Part 1 is supposed to be published for the new rules, followed by a public comment period. Once it moves on to the Gazette part 2 705 carriers will have 1 year before implementation, and 703/704 carriers will have 2 years.

So don't worry boys, we've got a good 3 years of those sweet sweet 14 hour duty days, with 8 hour, 45 minute rest periods left in us! Cue next election cycle, and TC backing off to see what the next government wants.
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Mach1
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by Mach1 »

80 (Flight hours) ÷ 15 (days/month) = 5.33 Hours a day.

I'm pretty sure a company can find a way to fly you 5.33 hours a day on average.
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timel
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by timel »

Thank you Marinth!

Let's say the publication of the new regulations can be done in gazette II for fall 2017, we could expect the new rules to be effective in fall 2018 for 705.
As for 703 and 704 it woud go to fall 2019, so yeah... right in the midst of the federal elections :smt040 so it could be more.
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florch
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by florch »

Thorjones wrote:on the upside though it may spur some even more hiring for pilots? But this could increase company costs and create a need for even lower wages :?
Supply demand. They should end up actually paying more per pilot. But they'll sell you your line.
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florch
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by florch »

mato wrote:
Thorjones wrote:on the upside though it may spur some even more hiring for pilots? But this could increase company costs and create a need for even lower wages :?
I don't know if it would actually equate to more pilots on the roster. Anywhere you have pilots that get 10 or 12 GDO/month where they get blocked with an actual 14-16 days off are just going to have the longer 14 hour days split into those remaining 4 extra days off that were scheduled. The flying itself has not increased we are just spreading things out.

So unless you are getting worked like crazy with only 10 days off a month at your company. Maybe The "NewLeaf" type operations will need to rethink how many crews are required but everywhere else should be able to just re-arrange the resources they already have. On the bright side it will probably equate to extra perdiems! lol
For companies that do long turns they may need to rest instead of returning. That means double the days for these destinations as another crew has to be in position to take the return, and the inbound crew has to wait to take over the next inbound. Who wants to get rich at $3 to 5/hr on per diem?
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TheStig
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by TheStig »

Lot's of examples on this thread of why I'm glad pilots aren't self regulating. TC is looking out for the public's interests, not what pilots think will make their schedules include the most days off. Based on my companies pairings I can think of very few duty days that will need to be changed, and working a 8-9 day month of transcontinental turns would still be possible. Changes to augmentation on longer flights should increase pilot requirements substantially.
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timel
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by timel »

I spoke to a 703 chief pilot recently, he told me they had to phone jazz and other regional operators and asked them to slow down the hiring of their pilots, he even told me they would have to close the doors if the hiring keeps on going as it is now. So what is it going to be in 2018?

If there is a possible low supply of pilots with experience coming up, it will be interesting to see how the industry is going to cope with it.
Anyone knows other operators who are in the same situation?
Is there any organization/union monitoring the issue?
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garfield
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by garfield »

timel wrote:I spoke to a 703 chief pilot recently, he told me they had to phone jazz and other regional operators and asked them to slow down the hiring of their pilots, he even told me they would have to close the doors if the hiring keeps on going as it is now. So what is it going to be in 2018?

If there is a possible low supply of pilots with experience coming up, it will be interesting to see how the industry is going to cope with it.
Anyone knows other operators who are in the same situation?
Is there any organization/union monitoring the issue?
Very well. Maybe if they offer 100K per year and 12 days off they will retain more people...
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Franky Jr
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by Franky Jr »

But this could increase company costs and create a need for even lower wages
You should be deported on behalf of all Canadian pilots.
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scopiton
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by scopiton »

timel wrote:, he even told me they would have to close the doors if the hiring keeps on going as it is now. So what is it going to be in 2018?
who, in their right mind, would see that as a problem ? good riddance.
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Fanblade
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Re: New Flt Crew Regs

Post by Fanblade »

timel wrote:
If there is a possible low supply of pilots with experience coming up, it will be interesting to see how the industry is going to cope with it.
Anyone knows other operators who are in the same situation?
Is there any organization/union monitoring the issue?
The best way to deal with a pilot shortage is to fly less frequency in larger aircraft. Just look south of the boarder. 50 seaters upguaged to 75. Majors repatriating 175/crj into 737's and reducing frequency.

From a pilot perspective it's a good thing. More good paying jobs. Less crappy paying.
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