PC12 job requirements

Discuss topics relating to airlines.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Cheftony
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:26 pm

PC12 job requirements

Post by Cheftony » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:33 am

Holy requirements :rolleyes:

Does this make sense to anyone of you ?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Attachments
image.png
image.png (150.43 KiB) Viewed 4640 times

wallypilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1607
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:59 pm
Location: The Best Coast

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by wallypilot » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:02 am

If it's single pilot, then other than the degree, yes it makes total sense to me.
---------- ADS -----------
  

lazyeight
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 10:41 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by lazyeight » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:56 am

Doesn't Wasaya want 2500 hours too for captain? They operate two crew.
---------- ADS -----------
  

lazyeight
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 10:41 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by lazyeight » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:58 am

wallypilot wrote:If it's single pilot, then other than the degree, yes it makes total sense to me.

Isn't Life Flight Ornge?
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Changes in Latitudes
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2396
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:47 am
Location: The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful.

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by Changes in Latitudes » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:02 am

lazyeight wrote:
wallypilot wrote:If it's single pilot, then other than the degree, yes it makes total sense to me.

Isn't Life Flight Ornge?
That's their call-sign, this is the company name.
I don't know much about anything, but I'd say it's a safe bet that Ornge isn't starting a base in Oregon. :smt081
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2444
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by digits_ » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:10 am

Changes in Latitudes wrote: I don't know much about anything, but I'd say it's a safe bet that Ornge isn't starting a base in Oregon. :smt081
Ornge starting a base on Yellow Gate Lane, it only makes sense.
---------- ADS -----------
  

SuperchargedRS
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am
Location: the stars playground

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:58 pm

About what the requirements for my single pilot PC12 job were.

Minus the degree, most places are learning that having a BS in BS doesn't have Jack to do with Jack, if you're a ATP the degree is just something some HR lady, who probably doesn't know the difference between an elevator and a flap, wanted to toss in there.



lazyeight wrote:Doesn't Wasaya want 2500 hours too for captain? They operate two crew.
Didn't they go bankrupt?
---------- ADS -----------
  

FOD_Vacuum
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:54 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by FOD_Vacuum » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:29 pm

Did Wasaya go bankrupt? Looking on PCC it seems they are throwing out a giant net in attempt to hire any pilots for any of their aircraft now. Seems kind of deperate to me..sorry for veering off course.
---------- ADS -----------
  

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by AuxBatOn » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:09 pm

What do you get in 2,500 hours that you don't in 1,000 hours that magically make you suitable to be the aircraft captain of a light aircraft?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

North Shore
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5354
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by North Shore » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:28 pm

^ Insurance coverage?

In general, I'm pretty sure that I'd want a bunch of experience from my pilots if I were operating SPIFR in the mountains out west...
---------- ADS -----------
  
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by AuxBatOn » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:38 pm

North Shore wrote:^ Insurance coverage?

In general, I'm pretty sure that I'd want a bunch of experience from my pilots if I were operating SPIFR in the mountains out west...
How do you equate total time to repevant experience? Would you take someone with 2500 hours in the Prairies or 1000 hours in the mountains?

I know many pilots that do not meet that requirement and would do just fine in a job like this...
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

atphat
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:01 pm

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by atphat » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:05 pm

Mountain experience. Hmmm. It's funny. When I fly published IFR procedures it doesn't matter to me if its in the mountains or not. Just curious why some pilots think it matters?
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2444
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by digits_ » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:54 pm

atphat wrote:Mountain experience. Hmmm. It's funny. When I fly published IFR procedures it doesn't matter to me if its in the mountains or not. Just curious why some pilots think it matters?
- weather
- consequences if you screw up
- performance calculations become vitally important, depending on the airfield
---------- ADS -----------
  

atphat
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:01 pm

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by atphat » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:25 pm

I guess what I meant was.... Sure. If you're a ga guy or a vfr piston pounder then yes, it might make a difference how much you fly in the mountains. If you're a professional 704-705 pilot where you shoot the approach should make no difference. There are specific considerations flying an arrival and approach everywhere in the world. Terrain is just one of them. Should WJ only hire pilots who have WATRS experience?
---------- ADS -----------
  

lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1197
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by lownslow » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:03 pm

AuxBatOn wrote:What do you get in 2,500 hours that you don't in 1,000 hours that magically make you suitable to be the aircraft captain of a light aircraft?
More opportunities to scare yourself? I'm going to go with that.

Or maybe more mentoring from a more experienced pilot but I guess we could go on forever asking at precisely which hour they suddenly got good enough to do so.
---------- ADS -----------
  

SuperchargedRS
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am
Location: the stars playground

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:33 am

AuxBatOn wrote:What do you get in 2,500 hours that you don't in 1,000 hours that magically make you suitable to be the aircraft captain of a light aircraft?
What do you get in 1,000 hours that you don't get in 500 hours?



I'd go with more experience to draw upon.


SPIFR isn't a place for folks who haven't seen a bit, and for folks without a good amount of PIC time, especially in a 0-60 late, odd hours medevac role.
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2444
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by digits_ » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:46 am

atphat wrote:If you're a professional 704-705 pilot where you shoot the approach should make no difference.
It shouldn't, but the chances of making mistakes / screwing up are probably smaller if you have more hours. If you screw up an approach in the prairies and brainfart a left turn with a right turn, you might get a CADORS, but you'll live. If you do that in the mountains, you may not. The more hours you have, the more of these mistakes you've probably already made and can prevent in the future.

Westjet captains might not all have lots of mountain or WATRS experience before they get thired, but I'm pretty sure they all have more than 2500 hours.
---------- ADS -----------
  

DanWEC
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: 404

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by DanWEC » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:21 am

AuxBatOn wrote:What do you get in 2,500 hours that you don't in 1,000 hours that magically make you suitable to be the aircraft captain of a light aircraft?

I see what you're getting at, and if the system was perfect I'd agree, however I'd say that it's not the hours in total, but the fact that you need a certain number of hours before you even have the opportunity to learn how to captain an aircraft operationally in the first place.

I'd be willing to bet that most people could skipper pretty much anything at far, far less than 1000 hours, but only if you started at hour 1 with doing exactly that (CF!). Plenty of jobs are just time building until you can make the next learning jump. Lots of empty hours in there flying straight and level. I'd say you learn the most in the first few hundred hours of any position then it tapers off.... 10k hours of flight instruction isn't any better than 1k.
---------- ADS -----------
  

lazyeight
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 10:41 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by lazyeight » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:00 pm

Changes in Latitudes wrote:but I'd say it's a safe bet that Ornge isn't starting a base in Oregon. :smt081

Ah yes, my brain read "ON" when I glanced at it.

Tradewinds in NY and FL have much much lower times for Cpt on the PC12 than this then... if were comparing USA to USA.
---------- ADS -----------
  

lazyeight
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 10:41 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by lazyeight » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:03 pm

AuxBatOn wrote:
North Shore wrote:^ Insurance coverage?

In general, I'm pretty sure that I'd want a bunch of experience from my pilots if I were operating SPIFR in the mountains out west...
How do you equate total time to repevant experience? Would you take someone with 2500 hours in the Prairies or 1000 hours in the mountains?

I know many pilots that do not meet that requirement and would do just fine in a job like this...
I'd rather take a pilot flying 1500 hours out in Manitoba or Ontario with winter experience, gravel strips, uncontrolled IFR etc than a pilot flying for a 703 out of say YVR or YYC ILS to ILS with 1000 hours. Flying the same .3 route every day.
---------- ADS -----------
  

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by AuxBatOn » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:33 pm

lazyeight wrote: I'd rather take a pilot flying 1500 hours out in Manitoba or Ontario with winter experience, gravel strips, uncontrolled IFR etc than a pilot flying for a 703 out of say YVR or YYC ILS to ILS with 1000 hours. Flying the same .3 route every day.
For what kind of job?

I guess my point is that experience is a lot more than hours.... I know a few qualitied test pilots (american mind you) with less than 1,500 hours TT but, 1,000 of those hours are as PIC and 3-400 PIC hours are in combat, leading other airplanes around a congested, complicated airspace while people are shooting at them. I'd say their decision making is a lot better than the average 3,000 hours IFR. And their flying abilities are probably a lot better too (landing on aircraft carriers at night on a deck that is moving +- 50' at 140 knots and stuff like that...) But they wouldn't be able to get a job, flying a PC-12 pavement to pavement (not that they'd want to).
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

timel
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 am

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by timel » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:09 pm

I don't think you can compare a fighter pilot with an air taxi (PC12 operation) or a medevac pilot. It is a completely different world. Just the training isn't comparable.

In air taxi you need the experience to compensate with very little resources or the environment, you have to be ready to take it upon yourself, there is no one putting the red carpet in front of your aircraft or towing it outside for you, some have outdated and or a limited equipment, there is no one watching over you, in some places there is very limited wx information, and unlike the army there is little time for preparation and to make good decisions.

Also, jets have enough thrust and will never get stuck under the clouds with too much ice on the wings, when you fly light turboprops you can put yourself in situations that can be pretty annoying, especially if the mountains around are high.

It is a fact, 1200-1500 hours captains are now the standard in the 703 industry and they are doing the job, is it ideal... For some operations, I don't think so.

But to answer your question, the 2500hrs requirement is just for operational reasons and it is an extra insurance.

edited for clarity
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by timel on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

wallypilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1607
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:59 pm
Location: The Best Coast

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by wallypilot » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:27 pm

atphat wrote:I guess what I meant was.... Sure. If you're a ga guy or a vfr piston pounder then yes, it might make a difference how much you fly in the mountains. If you're a professional 704-705 pilot where you shoot the approach should make no difference. There are specific considerations flying an arrival and approach everywhere in the world. Terrain is just one of them. Should WJ only hire pilots who have WATRS experience?
Just out of curiosity, do you have much mtn flying experience?

And to Auxbaton....sure, total hours is by no means a direct indicator of the knowledge and skill of pilot. But I'll tell you it's a damn good starting point, that's why we interview people. Having said that, you sound like you are either playing devil's advocate or actually don't really have that much experience in the industry to make a comment like that.
---------- ADS -----------
  

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by AuxBatOn » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:36 am

wallypilot wrote:
atphat wrote:I guess what I meant was.... Sure. If you're a ga guy or a vfr piston pounder then yes, it might make a difference how much you fly in the mountains. If you're a professional 704-705 pilot where you shoot the approach should make no difference. There are specific considerations flying an arrival and approach everywhere in the world. Terrain is just one of them. Should WJ only hire pilots who have WATRS experience?
Just out of curiosity, do you have much mtn flying experience?

And to Auxbaton....sure, total hours is by no means a direct indicator of the knowledge and skill of pilot. But I'll tell you it's a damn good starting point, that's why we interview people. Having said that, you sound like you are either playing devil's advocate or actually don't really have that much experience in the industry to make a comment like that.
I am playing devil's advocate. I have been flying for close to 20 years of which 10 are professionally (although, because of my military background, I don't have as many hours as a civilian pilot would have).
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

atphat
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:01 pm

Re: PC12 job requirements

Post by atphat » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:27 am

wallypilot wrote: Just out of curiosity, do you have much mtn flying experience?
There it is again. Mountain flying experience. I couldn't tell you how much "mountain time" I have. Whenever I'm about to brief an arrival and approach I'll look at the jepp pages and I'll brief whether or not it's mountainous and minimum alts. Then I land.

so you seem to think it matters as well. Why?

Edit: cause you asked. If there is a major airport on the continent that has a mountain next to it, I've probably been there. Lots.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Airline Industry Comments”