Georgian and foreign pilots

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slob driver
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Georgian and foreign pilots

#1 Post by slob driver » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:35 am

Good day to everyone,

I have noticed that there are a ton of foreign sounding accents in Georgian flight decks these days. Anecdotally, I have heard that there are foreign pilots flying Georgian airplanes, such as Aussies and Kiwis. And these pilots are not people that have immigrated to Canada permanently. Is this true? And if it is, is there is a reciprocal program in place so that Canadian pilots can fly in the countries that are represented in the Georgian flight decks?

Thank you to everyone who responds. Have a great day.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#2 Post by frog » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:05 pm

Having a "foreign" accent doesn’t mean you are not Canadian.
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timel
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#3 Post by timel » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:35 pm

This is no surprise, it is a fact that GGN has been using the TFWP program in the past because they were lacking of training captains to start their CRJ operation.
If they are still using the program for the same reasons, maybe they need to review the WAWCONs.

I didn't know GGN pilots were unionised. :o
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#4 Post by Monorail Conductor » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:35 pm

We pay 500 dollars every 2.2 days.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#5 Post by iflyroads » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:41 pm

timel wrote:
I didn't know GGN pilots were unionised. :o

They have been since 2003 if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#6 Post by Inverted2 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:06 am

They have been spotted at the US customs line in YYZ being photographed/fingerprinted which would lead one to believe they are not Canadian passport holders.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#7 Post by gtanorth » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:16 am

That was during start-up a very common practice for most operators around the globe when introducing a new type. Given the only other operator of the same type was the people they were taking the work away from I don't think their Canadian counterpart would lend them pilots.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#8 Post by timel » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:03 am

Inverted2 wrote:They have been spotted at the US customs line in YYZ being photographed/fingerprinted which would lead one to believe they are not Canadian passport holders.
Pilots who have the permanent residency have to go through that process as well, but usually they get a long term US visa at the American Embassy.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#9 Post by gtanorth » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:08 am

Talk about a non-issue - read boxes 17 - 19
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#10 Post by munzil » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:58 pm

slob driver wrote:is there is a reciprocal program in place so that Canadian pilots can fly in the countries that are represented in the Georgian flight decks?
I'm a PM card holder here with Canadian wife and son, from one of the quoted countries (NZ) with plenty of Canadians immigrating. I'm amazed at the amount of people that still think I am 'taking away' Canadian jobs.

There are 9,475 New Zealanders living in Canada which is 0.0221% of the population

There are 7,770 Canadians living in NZ which is 0.2119% of the population

Almost 10 x more Canadians live in NZ as a percentage of the population (let alone the land mass)

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves. There's your reciprocal program and then some.
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Last edited by munzil on Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#11 Post by munzil » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:40 am

slob driver wrote: Anecdotally, I have heard that there are foreign pilots flying Georgian airplanes, such as Aussies and Kiwis. And these pilots are not people that have immigrated to Canada permanently..
How did you deduce from an accent that a person hasn't immigrated permanently? I don't know of one georgian pilot that isn't on a Permanent residency card or a full or natural born citizen. That is one hell of a process to go through and takes 2-3 years just to get during which you don't have the ability to work in Canada. With a PR card you are still going US customs showing your fingerprints until you are a citizen which takes upwards of 5 years.

Fear mongering much?
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#12 Post by timel » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:47 am

Munzil, the issue was that some operators and airlines were getting temporary pilots from foreign countries, in Canada there are plenty of pilots that can fill up most of the jobs. Even though the government has changed and seem to have put a stop to it, the laws still need to be patched so that they can't be misused again.

Most people have no issues with pilots who come in Canada and obtain the right to work. I have some friends who have the PR and they have left everything 8-9 years ago to immigrate. I respect that.
I think it is normal that we ask questions, and we try protect our market as much as we can. Look at Europe, how screwed up they are, personally I don't want any of that here.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#13 Post by munzil » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:37 am

timel wrote:Most people have no issues with pilots who come in Canada and obtain the right to work. I have some friends who have the PR and they have left everything 8-9 years ago to immigrate. I respect that. .
Fair enough, and it is the same the world over. As someone who has worked in about 12 countries, people have it fairly easy here but in my opinion seem to generally moan the most. I have been here since 1999 but I still get suspicious looks and questions when people here my accent and ask what I am doing here - am I here on contract? who am I working for? (just last week in fact from an aggressive Jazz Pilot).

As given by the original poster here, who assumes that he hears a kiwi accent that we are here temporary. I know the people in Georgian that are kiwis and aussies and they are all permanent residents here married to Canadians who have left good jobs and good countries to live with their loved ones. We get a little tired of over and over again being accused of coming in temporarily and stealing Canadian jobs.

It gets very old.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#14 Post by NickyNick » Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:02 pm

munzil wrote:
timel wrote:Most people have no issues with pilots who come in Canada and obtain the right to work. I have some friends who have the PR and they have left everything 8-9 years ago to immigrate. I respect that. .
Fair enough, and it is the same the world over. As someone who has worked in about 12 countries, people have it fairly easy here but in my opinion seem to generally moan the most. I have been here since 1999 but I still get suspicious looks and questions when people here my accent and ask what I am doing here - am I here on contract? who am I working for? (just last week in fact from an aggressive Jazz Pilot).

As given by the original poster here, who assumes that he hears a kiwi accent that we are here temporary. I know the people in Georgian that are kiwis and aussies and they are all permanent residents here married to Canadians who have left good jobs and good countries to live with their loved ones. We get a little tired of over and over again being accused of coming in temporarily and stealing Canadian jobs.

It gets very old.

You are stealing jobs, I'm qualified for a regional job and can't get one. Permanent resident doesn't make you canadian.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#15 Post by digits_ » Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:37 pm

Image

:wink:
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#16 Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:27 pm

Haha, that's appropriate for NickyNick. I think he's elevated to a new level of troll now.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#17 Post by PointyEngine » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:23 pm

NickyNick wrote:
munzil wrote:
timel wrote:Most people have no issues with pilots who come in Canada and obtain the right to work. I have some friends who have the PR and they have left everything 8-9 years ago to immigrate. I respect that. .
Fair enough, and it is the same the world over. As someone who has worked in about 12 countries, people have it fairly easy here but in my opinion seem to generally moan the most. I have been here since 1999 but I still get suspicious looks and questions when people here my accent and ask what I am doing here - am I here on contract? who am I working for? (just last week in fact from an aggressive Jazz Pilot).

As given by the original poster here, who assumes that he hears a kiwi accent that we are here temporary. I know the people in Georgian that are kiwis and aussies and they are all permanent residents here married to Canadians who have left good jobs and good countries to live with their loved ones. We get a little tired of over and over again being accused of coming in temporarily and stealing Canadian jobs.

It gets very old.

You are stealing jobs, I'm qualified for a regional job and can't get one. Permanent resident doesn't make you canadian.
Because you seem like a twat - I know people who have been PFO'd from Jazz and Encore, and with good reason. Their selection process seems surprisingly sound...
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#18 Post by digits_ » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:44 pm

NickyNick wrote:
munzil wrote: You are stealing jobs, I'm qualified for a regional job and can't get one. Permanent resident doesn't make you canadian.
Just being Canadian doesn't make you qualified for a job either. I'm quite sure there are more canadians "stealing" your potential job than there are permanent residents "stealing" your job.

Permanent residents aren't doing anythign wrong by the way, they are not abusing the system or looking for back doors in the law. On the contrary, the law gives them the same rights employment/work wise as "real" Canadians.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#19 Post by slob driver » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:30 am

Hi everyone,

Not trying to stir the pot regarding pilots being in Canada from other countries. At the end of the day, Canada is a country where everyone is an immigrant. And I wasn't trying to slag kiwis or Aussies specifically. I was just curious if there was a way for people to go and fly in those countries on a Canadian passport? When I look at a job with, say Rex or Virgin Australia, it seems that there is no way that a Canadian could go and fly there.
People in this country are very touchy about these programs being reciprocal.
If someone comes over from another country to fill a job here that can be filled by someone who has a legal right to work here, either through having a Canadian passport or landed immigrant status, then the country of origin for that pilot should reciprocate and let Canadians have the opportunity to fly in that country.
As well, if Georgian is filling pilot seats on the rj to circumvent paying a better wage through bringing in pilots from other countries, than that is a serious problem for the piloting profession in Canada as well, and needs to be stopped.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#20 Post by munzil » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:11 am

slob driver wrote: As well, if Georgian is filling pilot seats on the rj to circumvent paying a better wage through bringing in pilots from other countries, than that is a serious problem for the piloting profession in Canada as well, and needs to be stopped.
I am aware of Georgian hiring practices and I know nothing of any hiring of pilots currently that are not Canadian. Specifically all the recent first officer hires there I know now are fully 100% canadian citizens aside from one PR.

In terms of your question can Canadian pilots work in NZ and Australia temporarily. Absolutely. There have been a number of programs to allow pilots to come work - one in particular a few years back where a large amount of South African pilots came to Australia when they opened up because of a shortage - this was also open to Canadians but Qantas et al specifically targeted frustrated south african pilots

Secondly if you are under 30 there is the working holiday program. A number of canadian pilots are working under that scheme in both countries. http://www.visabureau.com/australia/wor ... -visa.aspx

Thirdly, not recipricol per se, but there are also many Canadians working all over the world flying Canadian aircraft and locally registered. Maldives, Antarctica, China, Africa, Middle East, Indonesia etc etc.

I wouldn't hesitate to state that the opportunities for Canadians to fly overseas are far greater than than the opportunities for foreigners to fly in Canada.

Far far greater.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#21 Post by TG » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:14 am

slob driver wrote: As well, if Georgian is filling pilot seats on the rj to circumvent paying a better wage through bringing in pilots from other countries, than that is a serious problem for the piloting profession in Canada as well, and needs to be stopped.
They are not, as mentionned above it is a none event. Please take the time to read box 17 and 19 of timel's post.



munzil, you went through all the legal process to aquire a right to work here. Everybody should welcome you. Good on you for not wasting your time with the occasional frustrated one like:
NickyNick wrote:You are stealing jobs. I'm qualified for a regional job and can't get one. Permanent resident doesn't make you canadian.
That needs to blame their life's failure on somebody else.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#22 Post by complexintentions » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:56 am

As someone who has worked in about 12 countries, people have it fairly easy here but in my opinion seem to generally moan the most.
We get a little tired of over and over again being accused of coming in temporarily and stealing Canadian jobs.
It gets very old.
Hmmm...so your (current) host nation is full of moaners, but you whine when people notice the sheep-shagger accent?

Am I the only one noticing the irony here? :mrgreen:

Incidentally I mean the "sheep-shagger" affectionately, I've always enjoyed the Kiwis. They tend to get along well with Canadians, probably because we both have loud, obnoxious, larger neighbouring countries nearby. But just a tip, maybe one of the reasons people give you flack isn't because you're from New Zealand, but because you're just rude.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#23 Post by slob driver » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:05 am

I read box 17 and 19. That information is over 2 years old. I trust that Georgian should have the expertise to operate the rj's by now? As well information that is over two years old has nothing to do with how Georgian is operating/crewing their airplanes today.
Perhaps Georgian is paying Jazz-like wages and utilizing Jazz-like scheduling rules, so they aren't having any issues crewing their airplanes and the accents that I have heard are all people with a permanent right to work in Canada. I haven't the foggiest idea what Georgian rj pilots are paid. I only fly through YYZ. I'm not in the know regarding the WAWCON of Georgian's rj operations.

As well I am very aware of where Canadian pilots are operating around the world. That doesn't change the fact that if Georgian (or any airline in Canada for that matter) has temporary foreign workers in their employ, then the corresponding countries MUST be reciprocating by giving an equivalent number of temporary work visas for Canadian pilots, or the foreign pilot in question should not be allowed to work in Canada. Full stop.

Thank you for passing on the information regarding being able to temporarily work in Australia. That is the type of information that I was looking for and am heartened to see that if one door closes for a pilot in Canada(like Georgian perhaps, or Sunwing in the past), another door may open elsewhere. I wasn't trying to start an anti immigration pissing contest. As I stated, in Canada, everyone is either an immigrant, or their parents or grand/greatgrandparents were.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#24 Post by timel » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:01 am

slob driver wrote:I read box 17 and 19. That information is over 2 years old. I trust that Georgian should have the expertise to operate the rj's by now? As well information that is over two years old has nothing to do with how Georgian is operating/crewing their airplanes today.
I quoted this document just to state clearly when GGN used the TFW program and why they used it.
It makes sense that Jazz pilots wouldn't go help GGN in that period to help with the operation, so I guess there was an honest need.

I think Georgian is not using TFW pilots at the moment, I confirmed it as well one of their CRJ pilots that I know, and he told me pretty much what everyone is saying here. It is all good.
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Re: Georgian and foreign pilots

#25 Post by gtanorth » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:28 pm

Maybe check before posting next time - ya
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