China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

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China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#1 Post by A V I A T O » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:27 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -pay-perks

Any anectdotes, personal, 2nd or even 3rd hand of these lucrative overseas flying gigs in china?

The money is tempting, but im one of those guys that just really likes living in canada. I also have this irrational fear of the asian justice system and asian flight safety standards
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#2 Post by North Shore » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:05 pm

There's an e-book running around somewhere (I think that i downloaded it from here?) called 'Flying Upside Down' that details the challenges of flying in China. It's a good/funny/angering/saddening read...
I'll see if i can find a link again..

ETA: http://www92.zippyshare.com/v/rRE4ARC2/file.html
or here (works better for phones) http://www.filedropper.com/flyingupsidedown

And, here's a thread on a US forum:http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/forei ... china.html fair bit of stuff over on 'Prune, also..
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#3 Post by trey kule » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:44 pm

I have a few years of experience in China.
There is so much misunderstanding of things there, and people just "putting it out there" does not help.

There is good. There is some not so good. Not unlike Canadian airlines where there is both good and bad as well. Different good and bad. But nothing is perfect....even in canadastan.

Chinese and Asian legal systems! That is a new worry I have not heard before except in Indonesia.
When it comes to skilled foreign workers in general, and airline pilots in particular, the rules are clear and transparent. That was not the case so much even as recently as a few years ago. I have never heard of any foreign pilot having a legal issue that was a problem (in China). I am aware of a air operation in Indonesia where foreign pilots have legal issues all the time.

My advice is be careful of taking any advice (and I recognize the irony) on here.Most people that have taken contracts in the last few years are quite happy with their decision .
You are always going to get the horror stories..makes the tellers feel good.

You can PM me if you have any specific questions with regard to licensing, work permits, contracts, agents...
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#4 Post by complexintentions » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:49 pm

It's a question too complicated to answer simply. There are just so many variables. What might make sense for one person would be ridiculous for another based on one's age/stage of life, marital status, flying experience level, career ambitions, financial goals, adaptability, experience with foreign cultures, and on and on. That's just the individual.

Then there's the jobs. The absolute entire spectrum is there in China from excellent to horrifying (probably slanted a tad more to the latter). Flying a E190 domestically (like the humorous, not entirely truthful nor untruthful stories in Flying Upside Down) is entirely different from flying a B777/787 internationally.

So my (with huge asterisk attached) answer is that it is definitely possible to go to China and gain experience and get wealthy doing it. But it has massive strings attached. There IS A REASON the wages offered are so high.

I myself would not - at this stage of life and career - touch a job in mainland China. But that's me. I did my decade in the ME and it worked out for me, and then I got out of there. I did a lot of flights TO China (still do), and have several colleagues who went to companies like China Southern and Hainan. Pretty much all have left - and these were experienced expats from not-exactly-easy-to-live-in places. Nowadays there are some places in Asia I would work: Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea, perhaps Vietnam or Thailand. Not as well-paying, but more conducive to mental health. Unfortunately mostly looking for the more experienced end of the pilot group.

BUT...for a younger, hungrier, more ambitious me, China could have just as easily been an option. So as trey says...do your homework. The worries about the legal system aren't necessary. But the fact that you "really like living in Canada" tells me you probably aren't cut out for expat life, as it's pretty much as polar opposite of living in Canada as you can get. Not necessarily in all negative ways, in good ways as well, i.e. taxes, wages, career opportunities...they're lower, higher, and better, respectively, once you get away from Canadian aviation. But if living in a semi-permanent state of surreality isn't your thing don't bother.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#5 Post by A V I A T O » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:59 pm

"living in a semi-permanent state of surreality"
Brilliant.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#6 Post by Obbie » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:52 am

Complex, are you no longer an M-rat ?

Where did you go if I may ask ?
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#7 Post by Blueontop » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:06 pm

Would a 2500 hour pilot with BE02 and LR35 time/international experience have any shot getting something over in that region?
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#8 Post by trey kule » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:48 pm

Maybe. There are so many airlines that it is impossible to say for certain.
There is some general and corporate work. I know they do hire expats, but I have no idea how they get them. They are almost exclusively American from what I have seen.

The airlines generally want type rated and lots of experience.
But....there are agents out there pretending they are representing this or that airline...either to get an upfront fee or to get a signed contract and then sell it...be certain you are dealing with an airline directly. And that can be difficult, as the scammers are very very good at what they do.

Btw Complex....HongKong is China :smt040
And some very reputable airlines based there that hire expats almost exclusively.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#9 Post by complexintentions » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:12 pm

ha! Yes, Hong Kong is China - but there is politics and then there is culture. Just ask any native Hongker how much they love the mainlanders! :mrgreen:

Incidentally I am not slagging the Chinese - P.R.O.C. is a fascinating experiment and has done incredible things (good and bad) in a short period of history. It's just that living there as a westerner is more of an extreme adjustment than in Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei, all of which are also largely ethnically Chinese but far more accommodating of foreigners. Heck even my Chinese and Korean colleagues who left places like KAL to get the upgrade and chase the big bucks usually left after less than 2 years...

But I have a feeling you already knew all this. :wink:
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#10 Post by fish4life » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:15 am

How do companies in Asia view 705 turboprop time eg ATR / Q400?
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#11 Post by pelmet » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:37 pm

fish4life wrote:How do companies in Asia view 705 turboprop time eg ATR / Q400?
Can get you a job at Emirates these days. Good luck? 777 around the world....well not across the Pacific.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#12 Post by AirMail » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:17 pm

Would NickyNick have a chance over there?
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#13 Post by fish4life » Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:56 am

My comment wasn't meant as a troll more along the lines of curiosity if something like this could put further pressure on the regional airlines therefore leading to higher wages here in order to keep guys. For example a younger guy gets PFO'd from AC while sitting at Jazz on the Q, would they be able to hop across the pond and make 200-250k as an EMJ CPT?
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#14 Post by trey kule » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:58 am

Do they have a rating on type? Is it current? Do they have 1000 hours or so of PIC on type as well?

The Asian carriers are paying these very decent salaries to attract experience. They are not interested in providing career advancement opportunities to those who are not happy with waiting for an upgrade with AC.

Having said that, there are some carriers in Hong Kong that do hire for the right seat. No $300K USD a year to start though, but extremely decent life style and living condtions.

Do some homework (non social network related) if you are interested.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#15 Post by sanjet » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:54 am

Most carrier want time on type or cross type experience (A330/A340 B777/787...) what I can say is do some research on the contracts and company before you sign. There can be gotchas (commuting, tax, etc). Working in China is not like working in Canada, be ready for a change, some I know had more difficulty to adapt/handle, specially for your significant other & family. There's more to life than chasing money.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#16 Post by justwork » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:36 am

I work in China, and I've never spent more time at home with my family. I do 4 weeks on 4 weeks off, get paid more money then I could have ever earned in Canada, and get to spend half of the year 24/7 with my family, not just a few days a week. Working in China is challenging but in my opinion worth it. Its no easy gig to land either, everything published recently makes it look like they'll take anyone with a pilot license, they wont and don't.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#17 Post by CitationNation » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:00 pm

Nice Schedule, May I ask what carrier?
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#18 Post by Saxub » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:46 pm

Justwork, in your experience have you seen expats hired as First Officers with only an ATPL and no time on type? Not necessarily just at your employer but perhaps other airlines you may know people at in the area? I'd like to work in Japan or China (Japan more so).
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#19 Post by justwork » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:45 pm

Saxub wrote:Justwork, in your experience have you seen expats hired as First Officers with only an ATPL and no time on type? Not necessarily just at your employer but perhaps other airlines you may know people at in the area? I'd like to work in Japan or China (Japan more so).
No. They don't need FO's, they need captains.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#20 Post by justwork » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:10 pm

CitationNation wrote:Nice Schedule, May I ask what carrier?
Most Chinese contracts offer a commuter schedule. Most of them you can choose either month on month off, two weeks on two weeks off, 6 weeks on 2 weeks off, 6 weeks on 3 weeks off, or you can chose from 110-130 annual vacation days a year. Your time off is paid time off. A lot of airlines are offering some pretty exciting opportunities. A few months ago Hainan was offering 737 captains the opportunity to upgrade to the 787 as captains, either Toronto or Chicago base if I remember correctly. They were also offering A320 captains the A330 based in Seattle or Boston. There are a lot of Chinese airlines offering "transition training" or "upgrades" the 737,767,777 captains to the 787, or A320 captains to the A330. Once you're hired with a Chinese airline you may be upgraded within, if they hired you on the Embraer but have A320's you could be moved onto the A320 if they like you and there is a need.

Most people are afraid to leave their comfort zone, living and working in China is pretty different! Before China I was home a couple days a week, maybe less, some days I was home 5 days a week but with early starts and late finishes so I never really spent any time with my kids. Now I'm home almost 6 months a year.

There are lots of job ads on Avcanada for these gigs.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#21 Post by KAG » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:25 am

Are there any contracts you're aware of that will enable commuting out of YYZ? Companies to target or avoid?
Thanks.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#22 Post by justwork » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:33 am

KAG wrote:Are there any contracts you're aware of that will enable commuting out of YYZ? Companies to target or avoid?
Thanks.
Based out of yyz or commute out of yyz? Any commuting contract would be easy from yyz. If you mean yyz based, I'm not aware of any at the moment. You can commute from anywhere you want.
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#23 Post by complexintentions » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:37 am

Here's some fun weather for flying in Asia:

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffM ... rynum=3426
A mere 50-mph tropical storm just two days ago, Super Typhoon Meranti was packing top sustained winds of 155 knots (180 mph) at 12Z (8:00 am EDT) Monday, using the 1-minute peak wind standard employed by the Joint Typhoon Warning Center (JTWC) and the National Hurricane Center.
:cry:
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Re: China waves wads of cash to lure foreign pilots

#24 Post by ThatArmyGuy » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:00 am

complexintentions wrote:Here's some fun weather for flying in Asia:

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffM ... rynum=3426
A mere 50-mph tropical storm just two days ago, Super Typhoon Meranti was packing top sustained winds of 155 knots (180 mph) at 12Z (8:00 am EDT) Monday, using the 1-minute peak wind standard employed by the Joint Typhoon Warning Center (JTWC) and the National Hurricane Center.
:cry:

soooo, leave the seatbelt sign on in this case?
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