FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

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Gilles Hudicourt
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FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#1 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:58 am

In the past, Foreign Licence Validation Certificates, a certificate issued by Transport Canada to a pilot with a foreign licence allowing him/her to temporarily operate a Canadian registered aircraft, could only be issued for specific and limited reasons:

For short term recreational reason, to ferry or position an aircraft, to provide or receive type training, to operate a Canadian aircraft for a foreign operator, or to operate a Canadian aircraft wholly outside of Canada. and also, for specific commercial purposes like fighting forest fires, evacuation, etc in case of national emergencies such as fires, floods etc.

Then in 1998, TC added CASS 421.07(2)(j)
for reasons other than those mentioned above where approval may be given if, in the opinion of the Minister, it is in the public interest and not likely to affect aviation safety.
(amended 1998/03/23; no previous version)
Except that the French version read like this :
j) lorsqu'une demande a la prétention de servir l'intérêt public canadien pour des raisons non pas visées par les circonstances pressantes énumérées ci-dessus, le ministre peut accorder une approbation dans les cas exceptionnels.
(modifié 1998/03/23; pas de version précédente)
The French version of this clause specified that 421.07(2)(j) could only be used in exceptional circumstances, and when authorized by the Minister. It so happens that the original draft of the English version also read that this clause could only be used in exceptional circumstances, and only when authorized by the Minister but for a reason that is not explained in the CARAC archives, of which I have a copy, the part that restricted the use of this clause only in exceptional circumstances was deleted from the published English language version but remained in the French version.

Then Transport Canada, using this clause, began to allow foreign licenced pilots, to fly commercially in Canadaat the controls of large transport category jets operated under 705. Many FLVC were issued to foreign licenced pilots to fly for Skyservice airlines, Sunwing Airlines and Canjet.

Some winters, there were over 200 foreign licensed pilots flying large Canadian commercial jet inside of Canada using FLVCs issued under 421.07(2)(j), in clear violation of the French version of the CASS.

In fact, according to statistic obtained from Transport Canada, during certain calendar years, the vast majority of FLVCs issued by TC were issued under 421.07(2)(j).

Lawyers that were consulted all agreed that when an English and French version of a law or Regulation did not match, the most restrictive of the two applied. So the French version of 421.07(2)(j) should have applied since 1998. Yet it was simply ignored.

When Transport Canada was advised of this, they continued to ignore it until last month, when TC unilaterally adjusted the French version of the CASS to the English version, without any public consultations or a second thought.

Here is the new version:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/fra/aviationcivile ... 1-1086.htm
j) lorsqu’une demande a la prétention de servir l’intérêt public et que la sécurité aérienne ne risque pas d'être compromise pour des raisons autres que celles énumérées ci-dessus, le ministre peut accorder une approbation.
(en vigeur 2016/07/31)
.

Transport Canada sees no contradiction in having on one hand a very restrictive rule that states:

421.07(2)(g)
for operation of Canadian aircraft on Canadian commercial air services in urgent circumstances; such as fire suppression operations, emergency agricultural and forestry aerial application, airlift in relief of domestic natural disasters, and search and rescue operations;


followed right after by clause j) which states that TC can issue FLVCs for any other reason.

With a clause j) with no restrictions, why does a clause g) even exist ?

Canada is now the only industrialized nation in the world that allows Foreign Licenced pilots to Operate local commercial aircraft.

Something to be proud of. Bravo!
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:13 pm, edited 5 times in total.

timel
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#2 Post by timel » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:51 am

j) lorsqu’une demande a la prétention de servir l’intérêt public et que la sécurité aérienne ne risque pas d'être compromise pour des raisons autres que celles énumérées ci-dessus, le ministre peut accorder une approbation.
(en vigeur 2016/07/31)
Woaw!!! That is quite a change in the text! It doesn't mean the same thing at all anymore.
Can they just do that?

I agree that they should remove the g article and keep this one instead. The door is now wide open.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#3 Post by Dick » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:18 pm

Here we go...
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#4 Post by razorblade » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:40 am

Dick wrote:Here we go...
At least Gilles is trying to help improve our industry. What did you do?
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#5 Post by URC » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:02 pm

What is ALPA doing about this ?
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#6 Post by Mr. North » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:22 am

Sigh... When will Canada stand up for CANADIANS?!
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#7 Post by Sasquash » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:32 am

Sigh... When will Canada stand up for CANADIANS?!
Very well said!!!
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#8 Post by AuxBatOn » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:52 am

Funny, I haven't seen anyone complaining about this...

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 3&p=975489
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#9 Post by MKIII » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:31 am

[quote="AuxBatOn"]Funny, I haven't seen anyone complaining about this...

Maybe they are really short on pilots to fill these positions in Australia right now? This is definitely not the case in Canada at the moment.

There is quite a few Aussies and Kiwis flying in Canada as we speak. Being a member of Comomwealth helps a lot regarding visas and work permits. If it's a two way deal, I don't see any problem. With most of European countrys, it always seems to be a one way deal: they can come here and fly canadian registered airplane with their licence, but when we go there, it has to be on a C-reg airplane only.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#10 Post by timel » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:51 am

AuxBatOn wrote:Funny, I haven't seen anyone complaining about this...

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 3&p=975489
If a Canadian pilot goes to Australia, he could get a certificate of validation valid for one year, after he would have to undergo the usual exam and license conversion process if he wants to keep on flying in Australia, they can make an exemption for special cases such as urgent firefighting. Otherwise, it is pretty clear, it is a one time deal. In Europe it is a one time deal as well, after that you have to go for the European license and their 12 exams.

In Canada there are no real legislations for foreign commercial aircrew license validation and with Transport Canada's latest change it just got less transparent.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#11 Post by photofly » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:33 am

MKIII wrote: Being a member of Comomwealth helps a lot regarding visas and work permits. .
I can tell you with certainty that being a citizen of a Commonwealth country doesn't help one get a Canadian visa or work permit at all. Not since a long time ago.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#12 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:56 am

AuxBatOn wrote:Funny, I haven't seen anyone complaining about this...
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 3&p=975489

To back what Timel wrote, in the EU, in Australia and in New Zealand, a foreign licensed newcomer is given a grace period of one year, non renewable, to obtain a local licence. The US does not. To fly commercially in the US under 141, you need a FAA licence.

Canada on the other hand, will give a foreign licensed pilot an FLVC valid for one year, year after year, for an unlimited number of time, resulting in foreign pilots being in continuous possession of an FLVC several years in a row.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#13 Post by AuxBatOn » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:58 pm

So, writing a couple exams will ensure we get quality pilots flying our planes?
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#14 Post by timel » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:25 pm

AuxBatOn wrote:So, writing a couple exams will ensure we get quality pilots flying our planes?
How do you evaluate pilots in the army? You make them do pushups?

In Africa, if you have a bit of power and money, you can seat your kids on the right seat of a commercial cockpit even if they have 0 hours in their logbooks.

In addition to evaluate the candidate knowledge, exams are a way to get familiar with the country regulations and operations. I don't think it takes 12 exams to come to that, but there should definitely be some theoretical and flight evaluation done directly by TC. Every countries does it. I think Canada has been supplying its own pilots for decades and never saw the need to amend laws, but some smart ass lobbies - lawyers mysteriously found ways to bypass the vetting system, maybe it is time TC does some clean up.

IMO, except for aerial work, the army top secret business and the new aircraft importations, I don't see why we need FLVCs in Canada.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#15 Post by Kosiw » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:51 pm

What a traitor, that space cadet running TC has stabbed all CDN professional pilots in the back.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#16 Post by Inverted2 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:35 pm

If any of you voted liberal you have no right to complain.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#17 Post by yycflyguy » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:09 am

Inverted2 wrote:If any of you voted liberal you have no right to complain.
Oh please. Like the Conservatives were aviation advocates for FTD, fatigue, collective bargaining or TFW issues.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#18 Post by rxl » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:48 am

Inverted2 wrote:If any of you voted liberal you have no right to complain.
This comment is complete and utter nonsense.
Abuse of FLVC's has been going on much longer than the current government's mandate.
In any event, in a democracy, please show me where it says that a citizen has no right to be in opposition to something being done by their government based on how they cast their vote??
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#19 Post by Rowdy » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:31 am

Ok so how do we as an aviation community showcase to the politicians and mindless beaurocrats that they will be ousted for not supporting our industry and profession? We have the votes! We determine the issues. Not them.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#20 Post by rudder » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:23 pm

This just goes to show that despite over 5500 unionized commercial pilots and 2 professional pilot unions in Canada that we are still largely ineffective when it comes to affecting the the Government's legislative and regulatory framework for airline pilots.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#21 Post by FICU » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:18 pm

Hmm... wonder which bureaucrats are getting greased palms and or free vacations out of this and why isn't it being questioned by the opposition parties.
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Last edited by FICU on Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#22 Post by ahramin » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:22 pm

Bureaucrats everyone, it's spelled bureaucrats.
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#23 Post by gonnabeapilot » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:46 pm

Transport Canada is charged with overseeing the safe operation of aviation in Canada. Can someone please explain to me what the specific concerns are for aviation safety by changing these rules? A FLVC requires a foreign pilot to pass through some form of evaluation of their skills in the airplane before being issued. At Sunwing, TC requires groundschool, sim training, and a ride before issuing the FLVC. This is then followed up with Line indoc and a line check. All of this is supervised by Canadian pilots and occasionally TC itself. If a foreign pilot doesn't meet the required Canadian standard, they are not issued the FLVC.

Contrast this with the alternative method of foreign wet-lease flying. Those pilots can come into Canada and fly Canadian passengers with absolutely zero oversight from any Canadian regulators. Whether or not foreign pilots are allowed to fly in Canada is a political issue. How they fly here is an issue for TC. Personally I have no issue with TC either approving or showing preference for the use of FLVCs as it allows them to monitor and control the quality of foreign pilots flying Canadian passengers. TC is doing its job protecting the flying public. The fact that this isn't done in other countries is a sign that TC is actually ahead of the curve rather than behind it. Foreign wet leased aircraft are flying all over the world every day with next to no oversight by the host country's regulators and will continue to do so regardless of what the regulations say (Europe being a prime example). Wouldn't you prefer the TC method of quality control?
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#24 Post by FICU » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:55 pm

gonnabeapilot wrote:Transport Canada is charged...
Is that taken directly from Sunwing's case argument to TC so they can go back to bringing in foreign pilots?
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Re: FLVC: A new change to the Aviation Standards

#25 Post by gonnabeapilot » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:59 am

Sunwing has never stopped bringing in foreign pilots and 100 Canadian pilots got to keep their jobs this summer because of that. Perhaps you'd be happier if 100 of your Canadian colleagues were on the street collecting EI for the last 5 months?
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