Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

[Rockie]

You still don't get it Complex, I do not want to expand the threat conversation beyond this one issue. I want to address this one only.

If the other pilot was unstable and wanted to crash the airplane, what side of the cockpit door do you want to be on? Simple question.

[complexintentions]

If it's an ineffective strategy people who are opposed to it for that reason should have no qualms leaving an unstable pilot alone in the FD since there's nothing they can do to stop them anyway...right?

Would you leave an unstable pilot alone in the FD?

Your questions are like asking if people are opposed to safety or in favour of killing puppies. A silly rhetorical trick, used often by politicians. ("Who would be against SAFETY?!") Or, since you posted again, "Who wouldn't want to have a second person on the other side of the door if a maniac was trying to kill you?". Um, can I have some time to think about it? FFS.

As demonstrated by Germanwings, it's very difficult, perhaps impossible to identify an "unstable" pilot. So your questions are just baiting, because the stability of the pilot can't be reliably known.

*sigh* Yes, I know. This is where you say that makes it EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOMEONE WATCHING A LONE PILOT'S EVERY MOVE!!

Except that if someone is desperate enough to deliberately crash an airplane and become a mass-murderer, I have my doubts that Jenny from F - or anyone - is going to stop him.

Sorry, but that's the way I see it. We should maybe be thankful that in millions of flights over multiple decades there have been only a handful of undetected "unstables", I guess.

Since it already drifted off the Sunwing guy, don't be afraid to branch out a little in the discussion. I know you like things to be simple. But sometimes issues are actually linked, y'know...a little bit complex.

[Rockie]

You're arguing against this and you don't even know what Jenny from F's supposed to do up there.

Just answer the question Complex. Which side of the cockpit door do you want to be on?

[complexintentions]

If the other pilot was unstable and wanted to crash the airplane, what side of the cockpit door do you want to be on? Simple question.

I do not consider the risk of the other pilot being unstable to be great enough to mandate the second person. (Then again, I don't work at Air Canada! ) Thus, your question is moot to me.

Sorry, but I just don't know how to make it plainer to you. I do not worry about things the same way you do. Yet, here we both are.

Gotta go to work, first flight since before Christmas so must see what exciting new rules will make my life safer!

[Rockie]

In other words you don't want to answer the question.

[complexintentions]

My answer has been given multiple times. Please actually read my posts before posting your own. Thanks!

[justwork]

How about a 2 in the flight deck circle jerk somewhere else? This isn't what this thread is about, not by a long shot.

[Rockie]

My answer has been given multiple times. Please actually read my posts before posting your own. Thanks!

If the other pilot was trying to crash the airplane, which side of the cockpit door would you want to be on? Inside or outside?

Dodging the question isn't answering it. A or B?

Edit: Actually never mind Complex, I know what your answer is and I don't want you to hurt yourself saying it.

[Joe Blow Schmo]

Major thread drift, but I don't see the objection to the 2 in the cockpit rule. Who cares? Jazz has had that rule for about 15 years so I was surprised to see that AC didn't. Likewise all the airlines that I have worked for had/have the same rule. People at my current job were surprised to see that so many other airlines didn't have this rule. It just seems like common sense to most of us.

[complexintentions]

I'm just amazed at these companies that survived decades without the rule without even a single airplane crashed deliberately. It's a miracle, really.

Thank God it's mandatory now.

Praise Jebus.

[mbav8r]

Is it less safe because of this rule? If not, who cares! I don't feel any safer going through security everyday, so far nothing any pilot has brought through security has brought down an airliner, yet I still have to get screened, while AMEs show up to a "secure" area with items that would've been taken from me.

[BCnomad]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... e25575318/


BTW - AC has a program for employees with a substance abuse issues. CDNs are not perfect. So look in the mirror before pointing the finger and blaming foreigners for a problem that exists in all societies.

[Oxi]

Sunwing pilot drank 'incredible amount of alcohol' before boarding plane, court hears during guilty plea
Maid found an empty 26-ounce bottle of vodka in Miroslav Gronych's hotel room
By Meghan Grant, CBC News Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:57 AM MT Last Updated: Mar 21, 2017 10:49 AM MT

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/d ... -1.4033258

With an empty 26-ounce bottle of vodka back in his hotel room, Sunwing pilot Miroslav Gronych was so drunk when he stumbled onto the airplane he was supposed to fly from Calgary to Regina that his wing pin was on upside down and he appeared to pass out in the captain's chair.

Gronych, 37, a foreign national from Slovakia in Canada on a work visa, pleaded guilty on Tuesday to having care and control of an aircraft with a blood alcohol level over .08. He was arrested and charged on Dec. 31, 2016.

Pilot was 3 times the legal limit, say Calgary police
Sunwing pilot accused of passing out drunk in cockpit
That morning, Gronych flew into the Calgary airport at 12:48 a.m. He was scheduled to report back at 6 a.m. for a 7 a.m. flight scheduled to make stops in Regina and Winnipeg before continuing to Cancun, Mexico, with 99 passengers and six flight crew on board.

"This was a crime of dramatic proportion," said prosecutor Rose Greenwood. "The last thing the public should have to do is question the sobriety of the pilots."

The details of Gronych's crime come from an agreed statement of facts read in court on Tuesday.

About an hour after he was supposed to report in, Gronych's second-in-command — the first officer — called Sunwing's Operations Control Centre (OCC).

The OCC tracked down the missing pilot, who told them he'd gotten lost after going through security and couldn't find the gate.

Gronych told to get off plane

Gronych staggered onto the airplane about 7:05 a.m. Airport and airline employees he'd passed along the way had already tracked down the first officer to voice their concerns after noting the pilot was slurring his words and couldn't walk in a straight line.

On the plane, Gronych took about 30 seconds to hang up his jacket.

The first officer took Gronych to the bridge and told him he seemed impaired and had to get off the plane.

"He seemed very nonchalant and said 'OK, if that's what you feel,'" said the first officer.

Glassy eyes, slurred speech

While Gronych's second-in-command was contacting the OCC with an update, the drunk pilot returned to the cockpit and appeared to pass out with his face against the window.

When he woke up, co-workers told him to leave on his own or be forcibly removed by police.

Gronych walked off the airplane, and gate agents held him at the end of the bridge until police arrived.

Passengers were told the pilot had suddenly fallen ill, but many had seen him stumble in and believed he was drunk.

Police noted Gronych had slurred speech, a tired look and glassy and pink eyes. He smelled of alcohol, and his pilot wing pin was fastened upside down.

Prosecutor wants pilot jailed

As police escorted Gronych through the airport, they noticed he wasn't able to walk in a straight line, and he staggered when standing.

A replacement captain was found, and the plane left at 8:30 a.m.

In his Delta Airport Hotel room, a maid found an empty 26-ounce bottle of vodka.

Crown prosecutor Rosalind Greenwood has asked provincial court Judge Anne Brown to sentence Gronych to a year in jail.

Gronych breached the trust of the airline, passengers and crew, she argued in her sentencing submissions.

Though there was "ample opportunity" for Gronych to change his mind, the pilot consumed an "incredible amount of alcohol" instead of going to bed.

"He had literally an awesome responsibility," said Greenwood.

The Crown wasn't able to find any Canadian cases of pilots charged and sentenced under the Criminal Code. In her research, Greenwood told the judge she was only able to find a U.S. example of pilots being intoxicated and charged. In that case, the captain was sentenced to five years in prison despite his blood alcohol being much less than Gronych's.

Gronych's lawyer has yet to propose a sentence.

[Oxi]

Duty times? was this a continues duty?

That morning, Gronych flew into the Calgary airport at 12:48 a.m. He was scheduled to report back at 6 a.m. for a 7 a.m. flight scheduled to make stops in Regina and Winnipeg before continuing to Cancun, Mexico, with 99 passengers and six flight crew on board.

[Axial Flow]

That does sound a bit odd, I heard through the grapevine he was on reserve and not scheduled for the flight.

[ant_321]

Duty times? was this a continues duty?

That morning, Gronych flew into the Calgary airport at 12:48 a.m. He was scheduled to report back at 6 a.m. for a 7 a.m. flight scheduled to make stops in Regina and Winnipeg before continuing to Cancun, Mexico, with 99 passengers and six flight crew on board.

Yes

[gonnabeapilot]

Yes, continuous duty. The article gets things a bit mixed up. The Captain's scheduled duty was YWG-YYC - Rest - YYC-YQR - DH YWG. The flight he was meant to operate was scheduled YYC-YQR-CUN. A full crew change in YQR was always scheduled to take place and a new crew operated the YQR-CUN portion of the flight.

[Oxi]

Very happy to hear the issue of fatigue is being brought up now!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/m ... -1.4036936

Sunwing defends 6-hour break between flights for pilot who returned to duty drunk

Sunwing Airlines is defending its scheduling in a case where a pilot showed up for the second flight of his 11-hour shift so drunk that he appeared to fall asleep in the captain's chair. But a pilots' group says the scheduling practice raises concerns...Federal aviation regulations require that pilots have the opportunity for at least eight hours of sleep prior to reporting for flight duty at the beginning of a shift.
In this case, though, Sunwing said Gronych's duty had begun the previous night and included two separate flights, so the roughly six-hour break between them fell within the rules.

But Greg McConnell with the Canadian Federal Pilots Association (CFPA) said "split duty" shifts like these raise concerns about pilot readiness.

"When I saw that … it raised my eyebrows immediately," he said of the duration between Gronych's scheduled flight times.

The CFPA represents professional pilots whose duties include aviation inspections, flight testing of pilots, certification of operators and the development of operating standards...Sunwing declined an interview but, in an email, the company said Gronych's scheduling fell within Transport Canada guidelines.

The shift began when he reported for duty at 10:25 p.m. on Dec. 30 in Winnipeg and flew to Calgary, arriving just before 1 a.m. on Dec. 31.

"Sunwing then arranged a room for him at the Delta Calgary Airport Hotel where he was to wait until his next scheduled flight later that same morning," spokesperson Jacqueline Grossman said in the email...Had Gronych completed his shift, Sunwing said he was scheduled to arrive in Regina at 9:25 a.m., where he would have ended his shift.

He was not scheduled to continue on to Cancun.

"It is important to note that Gronych was continuously on duty throughout the entire 11 hour and 15 minute period, which abides with Transport Canada's guidelines stating that a duty period cannot exceed 14 hours," Grossman said.

'You don't want us falling asleep'

While in Gronych's case the main concern was the pilot's impairment by alcohol, McConnell said double-flight shifts create the possibility for fatigue-related risks as well.

"In order to be effective, you have to be alert. You have to be aware of your surroundings," he said.

"For the same reason you don't want to fall asleep driving your car, you don't want us falling asleep when we're flying the airplane — it's basically that simple."

Transport Canada declined an interview request.

"As the case of the Sunwing pilot is currently before the courts, it would be inappropriate for Transport Canada to comment," a spokesperson said in an email.

Canadian Aviation Regulations require airlines ensure flight crew members are provided "the minimum rest period" prior to reporting for duty.

That minimum rest time is defined as "a period during which a flight crew member is free from all duties, is not interrupted by the air operator or private operator, and is provided with an opportunity to obtain not less than eight consecutive hours of sleep in suitable accommodation, time to travel to and from that accommodation and time for personal hygiene and meals."

[Black_Tusk]

6 hours! I'd love to have 6 hours. Just about to check in to a stand up that I get 3 hours in a hotel. It sucks.

[confusedalot]

Agreed. Our government apparatus is real good at producing feel good rules to appease the public, all the while ignoring the real issues. If the public really knew what's going on...............