Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

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Ypilot
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#51 Post by Ypilot » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:24 am

BCnomad wrote:
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
BCnomad wrote:Gilles H. Please educate yourself on Canadian pilots working overseas. I know for a fact that that CDN pilots have worked ( and continue) overseas using their CDN lic and flying under the "other" countries registration. It is a simple process. Similar to Canada: The country in question applies to the local CAA and then the CAA approves a validation or a full ATPL license for that holder based on their home license. Be it ICAO,or FAA, or what have you. What you have said is completely false.
I have done extensive research on the matter and can even produce the relevant and specific regulations of many countries. And you ask that I educate myself ?
The European Union, Australia, and New Zealand allow a once in lifetime non renewable FLVC for 12 months. This to accomodate a foreign licenced pilot who permanetly moved into the country to make a living with his foreign licence while preparing his local licence. It is not used to allow the same foreign pilot to come and work six months out of the year, year after year with a foreign licence, as Transport Canada has been foreign licensed pilots to do in Canada.

The USA never allows foreign licences to fly US commercial aircraft, period.

Excellent research. Explain then how I and other CDN pilots have been able to hold validations and full ATPLs in Europe x2 countries, India, Asia, Africa x 3 countries, Aruba, Eastern Europe... Oh and I have flown US registered aircraft as well - commercially.... for periods up to 3 years..... all under a CDN lic.

When? 20 to 30 years ago?
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#52 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:42 am

BCnomad wrote: Excellent research. Explain then how I and other CDN pilots have been able to hold validations and full ATPLs in Europe x2 countries, India, Asia, Africa x 3 countries, Aruba, Eastern Europe... Oh and I have flown US registered aircraft as well - commercially.... for periods up to 3 years..... all under a CDN lic.
I have flown a Haitian registered commercial aircraft for a Haitian airline with a US licence and didn't even need a FLVC. Does that make a point? Only that in some countries, anything goes. How does that compare to Canada and Transport Canada ?

As far as flying commercial EU registered aircraft under a EU OC with a Canadian licence, I do not believe it. I will need proof.
Unless oif curse it was many years ago.

Your nationality is irrelevent. It is the country where you are licenced that counts.
The place where the aircraft is registered is irrelevant. It is the country of the Operators OC thatr counts.
So you may just be playing with words.......

So unless you state that within the last 5 years, while holding a Canadian licence only, you were able to oerate a revenue flight operated by a EU airline uner the EU airlines's Operators Certificate with an EU issued FLVC, I call your bluff.

The US allows Foreign licensed pilots to fly US registered aircraft commercially as long as the US registered aircraft is operated by a non US company under a non US Opering Certificate. So, for example, my Canadian employer can temporarily dry-lease, a US registered aircraft, keep it US registered under CAR 203 (https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... u-2105.htm) , and I can fly it for my Canadian airline with a US issued FLVC.

You are a troll. Stop wasting our time here.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#53 Post by AuxBatOn » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:49 am

In terms of safety, how does, in this case, the pilot's licensing scheme would have made a difference? Is there some sort of screening I am unaware of for forecasting drunk flying?

In general, how does an FLVC make a pilot less safe than a full conversion?
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#54 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:20 am

AuxBatOn wrote:In terms of safety, how does, in this case, the pilot's licensing scheme would have made a difference? Is there some sort of screening I am unaware of for forecasting drunk flying?

In general, how does an FLVC make a pilot less safe than a full conversion?
You are asking the question as though someone had made that statement. Are you making it ?
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#55 Post by AuxBatOn » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:37 am

You are using this incident to further your cause so you implicitly advance that this incident, therefore travel safety, is compromised by TFW and the FLVC process, so I repeat my question: in this case, would a full up licence conversion prevented this issue? If no, then you have no buisness bashing TFW in this thread.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#56 Post by Spaceshuttle » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:02 am

Do these pilots do a Canadian Medical which goes with a Canadian license?

That should answer your question about the difference in having a Canadian license versus a LVC in Canada. I assume you hold a Canadian Medical and therefore will recall the alcohol consumption question filed yearly.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#57 Post by AuxBatOn » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:08 am

Spaceshuttle wrote:Do these pilots do a Canadian Medical which goes with a Canadian license?

That should answer your question about the difference in having a Canadian license versus a LVC in Canada. I assume you hold a Canadian Medical and therefore will recall the alcohol consumption question filed yearly.
Because that question will prevent pilot from drinking and flying. Didn't that happen to some
AT pilots somewhat recently? I guess our canadian way of detecting alcoholism didn't work that time... but it would work on this guy...


Give you head a shake!
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#58 Post by BCnomad » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:59 am

Ypilot wrote:
BCnomad wrote:
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
I have done extensive research on the matter and can even produce the relevant and specific regulations of many countries. And you ask that I educate myself ?
The European Union, Australia, and New Zealand allow a once in lifetime non renewable FLVC for 12 months. This to accomodate a foreign licenced pilot who permanetly moved into the country to make a living with his foreign licence while preparing his local licence. It is not used to allow the same foreign pilot to come and work six months out of the year, year after year with a foreign licence, as Transport Canada has been foreign licensed pilots to do in Canada.

The USA never allows foreign licences to fly US commercial aircraft, period.

Excellent research. Explain then how I and other CDN pilots have been able to hold validations and full ATPLs in Europe x2 countries, India, Asia, Africa x 3 countries, Aruba, Eastern Europe... Oh and I have flown US registered aircraft as well - commercially.... for periods up to 3 years..... all under a CDN lic.

When? 20 to 30 years ago?
Funny. How about as long ago as 2007 up until last year...
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#59 Post by BCnomad » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:15 am

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
BCnomad wrote: Excellent research. Explain then how I and other CDN pilots have been able to hold validations and full ATPLs in Europe x2 countries, India, Asia, Africa x 3 countries, Aruba, Eastern Europe... Oh and I have flown US registered aircraft as well - commercially.... for periods up to 3 years..... all under a CDN lic.
I have flown a Haitian registered commercial aircraft for a Haitian airline with a US licence and didn't even need a FLVC. Does that make a point? Only that in some countries, anything goes. How does that compare to Canada and Transport Canada ?

As far as flying commercial EU registered aircraft under a EU OC with a Canadian licence, I do not believe it. I will need proof.
Unless oif curse it was many years ago.

Your nationality is irrelevent. It is the country where you are licenced that counts.
The place where the aircraft is registered is irrelevant. It is the country of the Operators OC thatr counts.
So you may just be playing with words.......

So unless you state that within the last 5 years, while holding a Canadian licence only, you were able to oerate a revenue flight operated by a EU airline uner the EU airlines's Operators Certificate with an EU issued FLVC, I call your bluff.

The US allows Foreign licensed pilots to fly US registered aircraft commercially as long as the US registered aircraft is operated by a non US company under a non US Opering Certificate. So, for example, my Canadian employer can temporarily dry-lease, a US registered aircraft, keep it US registered under CAR 203 (https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... u-2105.htm) , and I can fly it for my Canadian airline with a US issued FLVC.

You are a troll. Stop wasting our time here.
Why is it that when someone gets upset and people challenge the tripe they spew they always have to resort to calling names... OMG I'm a troll.... ouch that hurt...
If a carrier wants you to fly for them and they need pilots - that carrier and the respective country will do what it takes to get it done. It is called Supply and Demand. It happens everywhere. Suck it up baby, the reality is that the corporations and the regulators will work together to create economic success. It happens in Europe, Asia, Eastern Europe, and Canada... Fact of life.

If you really want to make a difference in the CDN aviation, why don't you implement a min wage and max hours for pilots, negate the possibility that pilots will work for food, and or shelter. Stop corporations from getting pilots to work for absolutely nothing after they get their commercial license.

BTW this thread is about a pilot being drunk at the controls - the fact he is a foreigner on a work visa or speaks a different language is irrelevant. Are you giving as much effort on this subject about any Canadian pilots found intoxicated on a revenue flight??
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#60 Post by BCnomad » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:34 am

AuxBatOn wrote:You are using this incident to further your cause so you implicitly advance that this incident, therefore travel safety, is compromised by TFW and the FLVC process, so I repeat my question: in this case, would a full up licence conversion prevented this issue? If no, then you have no buisness bashing TFW in this thread.

Agreed
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#61 Post by Spaceshuttle » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:38 am

Because that question will prevent pilot from drinking and flying. Didn't that happen to some
AT pilots somewhat recently? I guess our canadian way of detecting alcoholism didn't work that time... but it would work on this guy...


Give you head a shake!


Where did I mention prevention???
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#62 Post by altiplano » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:15 pm

Garneau has written a letter to all Canadian air carriers to impose measures in response to this incident by February 15th.

Fucking Europeans - first I can't go take a piss on my own, now we'll be getting random breathalysed at work. What a fucking joke.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#63 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm

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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#64 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:11 pm

Marc Garneau lettter
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#65 Post by Eric Janson » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:11 am

altiplano wrote:Garneau has written a letter to all Canadian air carriers to impose measures in response to this incident by February 15th.

Fucking Europeans - first I can't go take a piss on my own, now we'll be getting random breathalysed at work. What a fucking joke.
Be thankful this is all you have to do.

My company has introduced mandatory psychological testing - just did it 2 months ago. EASA is going to make this mandatory as a result of the Germanwings 9525 crash.

It's pass/fail.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#66 Post by Rockie » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:52 am

Eric Janson wrote:
altiplano wrote:Garneau has written a letter to all Canadian air carriers to impose measures in response to this incident by February 15th.

Fucking Europeans - first I can't go take a piss on my own, now we'll be getting random breathalysed at work. What a fucking joke.
Be thankful this is all you have to do.

My company has introduced mandatory psychological testing - just did it 2 months ago. EASA is going to make this mandatory as a result of the Germanwings 9525 crash.

It's pass/fail.
That ends in May. In lieu of that we are now asked if we're "feeling ok" once a year at our medical.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#67 Post by newcomer » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:57 am

altiplano wrote:
Fucking Europeans - first I can't go take a piss on my own, now we'll be getting random breathalysed at work. What a fucking joke.
It has nothing to do with being European. If I remember correctly 2 Air Transat pilots were arrested and jailed a few months ago for the same reason...
It's an industry wide issue, because some pilots cannot take their responsibilities and act like the professionals they should be.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#68 Post by Maxpwr » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:04 am

Yes it has to do with being a f---ing moron! Where they're from is irrelevant.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#69 Post by a380super » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:26 am

"" Fucking Europeans - first I can't go take a piss on my own, now we'll be getting random breathalysed at work. What a fucking joke."

Woow..what a level of arrogance Altiplano...Time to step down from your pedestal !
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#70 Post by justwork » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:51 am

AuxBatOn wrote:You are using this incident to further your cause so you implicitly advance that this incident, therefore travel safety, is compromised by TFW and the FLVC process, so I repeat my question: in this case, would a full up licence conversion prevented this issue? If no, then you have no buisness bashing TFW in this thread.
I think it definitely would have. Because a full license conversion takes time and money, and would likely be less efficient compared hiring a Canadian for the job. Now, I am not saying that Canadian pilots are safer than a pilot from anywhere else, and I'm not saying that Canadian pilots don't drink, as this is obviously not the case. Your question asks "in this case" and in this case this pilot would have likely never set foot in Canada if a full license conversion was mandatory.

I work overseas, and it took my airline 6 months to convert my license. It required a written exam, medical, and PPC, the long part was the processing time.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#71 Post by AuxBatOn » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:58 am

I am talking about differences in process. Not how long it takes to get a full conversion. The FLVC process in itself does not compromise safety when compared to a full conversion.

And you do not know that this pilot would have never set foot in Canada so let's not speculate.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#72 Post by Ypilot » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:03 am

AuxBatOn wrote:I am talking about differences in process. Not how long it takes to get a full conversion. The FLVC process in itself does not compromise safety when compared to a full conversion.

And you do not know that this pilot would have never set foot in Canada so let's not speculate.
According to this news report, the FLVC validation process could compromise safety.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/s ... -1.3923781
"Transport Canada specifically directs staff to not check medicals and licences unless they have a concern," said Greg McConnell with the Canadian Federal Pilots Association, who says it shouldn't be left to airline operators to validate such important information.

"It used to be common place where licensing inspectors would check this," he said. "I'd think they would want to check to make sure licences are valid and that these people were capable of doing the work they were about to do."

McConnell says Transport Canada would also be able to work more closely with foreign aviation authorities when needed.

"How would an airline operator be able to determine whether there are any concerns with respect to the pilots and would the foreign authority provide that information to an airline operator? I don't think they would, but I think they would provide it to Transport Canada if Transport Canada asked the question," he said.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#73 Post by justwork » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:18 am

AuxBatOn wrote:I am talking about differences in process. Not how long it takes to get a full conversion. The FLVC process in itself does not compromise safety when compared to a full conversion.

And you do not know that this pilot would have never set foot in Canada so let's not speculate.
But you're speculating. I'm just speculating too, if the process took 6-8 months the likely hood of foreign pilots coming over seasonally would probably be lower. Now a Canadian pilot with a drinking problem could do the exact same thing, and has.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#74 Post by AuxBatOn » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:19 am

Because a news article says it compromises safety (and the interviewee is heavily biased to say so), it means it does?

I think the process as-is is okay. What incentive does a company have to let someone they think is not fit to fly operate their aircraft? What would our medical process add? It's a questionnaire, some blood work, an ECG, a summary eye exam and hearing test. Unless the guys has diabetes or some major heart problems (which would likely be detected on any aviation medical, regardless of country), the Canadian medical will not screen anything different.

justwork: how am I speculating? I am comparing processes. Not pretending something happened that I don't know for sure.
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Re: Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

#75 Post by justwork » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:30 am

AuxBatOn wrote:
justwork: how am I speculating? I am comparing processes. Not pretending something happened that I don't know for sure.
I don't know. I guess in my mind I figure if it cost the same and took as long to bring someone from another country to work for you then it would make sense to hire a Canadian pilot and bond them, and if it were a Canadian pilot crewed on that flight the Slovakian fella would have been drinking Slivovica back home. Either way I don't really care, I'm going back to Kijiji to look at Harleys.
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