Employees paying for electronic flightbag

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complexintentions
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#26 Post by complexintentions » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:09 am

Not a Canadian airline, but 64gb iPad Air 2 issued by employer for use while employed, with JeppFD-Pro, Boeing OPT, and proprietary company docs app installed. New employees are required to create a new iTunes account on hiring. And on the Settings page there is a note that says "This iPad is supervised. XXX Airline can monitor your internet traffic and locate this device."

So while I do have some understanding of proxies and what is and isn't possible to track (whether from a technical or practical point of view), I don't bother with anything personal on it. Got enough of my own toys for that.

Asking employees to pay the cost of items required to perform their job is the ultimate in bottom-feeder, but probably not illegal provided its stated in the employment contract. But it IS a good warning sign of a place to not work *cough*Ryanair*cough*.
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#27 Post by SuperchargedRS » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:03 am

I take it you've never been a business owner, contractor, or had much autonomy, expecting folks to have some tools of their trade is kinda normal.

Go cry to your favorite mechanic about having to buy a iPad lol
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#28 Post by PROC_HDG » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:51 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:I take it you've never been a business owner, contractor, or had much autonomy, expecting folks to have some tools of their trade is kinda normal.

Go cry to your favorite mechanic about having to buy a iPad lol
The fact that one employee group has to pay for their stuff, doesn't make it right.

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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#29 Post by Liftdump » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:06 am

Do you think a pro hockey player buys his own sticks
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#30 Post by complexintentions » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:28 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:I take it you've never been a business owner, contractor, or had much autonomy, expecting folks to have some tools of their trade is kinda normal.

Go cry to your favorite mechanic about having to buy a iPad lol
Bullshit analogy. Of course pilots bring tools of the trade. My tools are my license and experience. Both accumulated at much personal expense over time, and "expected" by my employer. If I leave, they go with me.

A mechanic's personal tools are also accumulated with considerable expense over time. If he moves on, they go with him as well.

But a mechanic isn't expected to purchase the employer's infrastructure for them. They don't pay for the shop equipment. Do you think those computers they're looking up part numbers on belong to them?

Trying to make pilots pay for tablets because the company wishes to go electronic is no more valid than requiring employees to pay the Jepp subscription for paper charts. It's aircraft equipment, not personal kit. My employer provides me with an iPad for use at work because it's what the company uses. When I resign, I will return it. It is a business expense for them because it is required in their business. I do not pay a company's business expenses unless I am a shareholder of the company.

And I am a contractor pilot. Been managing my profession, as the business that it is, for many years thanks.
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#31 Post by Black_Tusk » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:53 am

complexintentions wrote:Not a Canadian airline, but 64gb iPad Air 2 issued by employer for use while employed, with JeppFD-Pro, Boeing OPT, and proprietary company docs app installed. New employees are required to create a new iTunes account on hiring. And on the Settings page there is a note that says "This iPad is supervised. XXX Airline can monitor your internet traffic and locate this device."
This is how Jazz does it as well.
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#32 Post by AirFrame » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:00 am

complexintentions wrote:It is a business expense for them because it is required in their business. I do not pay a company's business expenses unless I am a shareholder of the company.
I think the problem is that the dividing line between what the employee must bring with them and what the company must provide is not set by law but by general convention that has been established through years of "it's always been done this way."

You can't seriously argue that the tools a mechanic uses aren't required for the business he works for. But a tool set can be a rather personal thing, and some mechanics may *want* to have their own tools, maybe?
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#33 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:56 pm

complexintentions wrote:
SuperchargedRS wrote:I take it you've never been a business owner, contractor, or had much autonomy, expecting folks to have some tools of their trade is kinda normal.

Go cry to your favorite mechanic about having to buy a iPad lol
Bullshit analogy. Of course pilots bring tools of the trade. My tools are my license and experience. Both accumulated at much personal expense over time, and "expected" by my employer. If I leave, they go with me.

A mechanic's personal tools are also accumulated with considerable expense over time. If he moves on, they go with him as well.

But a mechanic isn't expected to purchase the employer's infrastructure for them. They don't pay for the shop equipment. Do you think those computers they're looking up part numbers on belong to them?

Trying to make pilots pay for tablets because the company wishes to go electronic is no more valid than requiring employees to pay the Jepp subscription for paper charts. It's aircraft equipment, not personal kit. My employer provides me with an iPad for use at work because it's what the company uses. When I resign, I will return it. It is a business expense for them because it is required in their business. I do not pay a company's business expenses unless I am a shareholder of the company.

And I am a contractor pilot. Been managing my profession, as the business that it is, for many years thanks.

I've just not met many accomplished go getter professional pilots who don't already have a loaded up iPad, nice headset, etc anyways.
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Re: Employees paying for electronic flightbag

#34 Post by Black_Tusk » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:43 pm

Funny you say that, cause just about everyone I've flown with uses the company provided headset. There are many with their own, and I'm sure it may change depending on what type you fly but a large majority use the company provided headsets.

I have an iPad, but what do you consider "loaded up?" I didn't use my iPad with Foreflight more than a week in 703 once I realized I didn't need it.

So I don't really agree with your comment at all.
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