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Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:13 am
by goingnowherefast
We get it, Jazz lowered their new hire pay (1.5 years ago), devalued their employees, controversy, people pissed off. This is a Flair thread.
Nobody has answered the pay question at Flair. What does their pay scale look like? How does it compare? Before we bash them and drag them to the same level as the regional airlines, lets see some actual numbers.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:57 am
by cost.index777
I interviewed a while back, and ended up not taking it. Spoke with a friend who is there and here are the highlights.
55k-83k FO across 10 years based on min credit 80
93k-150k CA across 10 years based on min credit 80
10% of annual salary top up for Training Captains
3/hr Per Diems
10 days off, 5 of which are changeable, but aimed to change with the union in place.
2 weeks Vacation plus Stat for year 1-3. Gets better afterwards. Which means you don't get paid for stat, but you get 11 extra days off in your holidays.
OT above 80 at 1.5 the rate
RRSP matching up to 5%
6 month probation
Bases are YEG, YYC, YHM, YXX, YLW
Air Transat Flying, New Leaf Flying, Oil Sands Flying, ADHOC Charter flying around the world.
Seems like moral is always on a teeter totter, sometimes high, some times low.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:04 pm
by leftoftrack
That's better than JAZZ Encore Sky or Georgian isn't it?
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:59 pm
by mbav8r
Um, not better than Jazz. Everything mentioned is lacking compared to Jazz and while I was surprised the pay was higher than I thought, a Jazz pilot at the top makes 120-130k plus pension, a 37 Captain should start around 120 and top out 180 or so.
There's a reason all this work is coming their way, cheap labour, that's it. All the Suncor pilots out of work because pilots like you think it ok, as long as it's to pay your mortgage, keep thinking that way and eventually pilots won't qualify for a mortgage of any kind.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:28 am
by atphat
mbav8r wrote:All the Suncor pilots out of work because pilots like you think it ok, as long as it's to pay your mortgage, keep thinking that way and eventually pilots won't qualify for a mortgage of any kind.
Just said it in another thread but I'll say it again. People who blame other people for taking jobs are pathetic. You think you're better than this guy cause you work at Jazz?? Lol
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:27 am
by mbav8r
atphat wrote:mbav8r wrote:All the Suncor pilots out of work because pilots like you think it ok, as long as it's to pay your mortgage, keep thinking that way and eventually pilots won't qualify for a mortgage of any kind.
Just said it in another thread but I'll say it again. People who blame other people for taking jobs are pathetic. You think you're better than this guy cause you work at Jazz?? Lol
I didn't say I was better than anyone, I have said that I turned down jobs that were under paid and overworked while I was out of work as a pilot. As desperate as I was to stop driving a truck and fly again, I refused to apply at Keystone and other operations, I turned down a Citation X job because the pay was terrible and you were expected to be on call 27 days a month, if that makes me pathetic, so be it.
I'll ask you the same question here as the other thread.
If someone walked in and said to your boss, they would do your job for 30% less and you're out of work because they accept, you ok with that?
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:18 pm
by flyinhigh
atphat wrote:mbav8r wrote:All the Suncor pilots out of work because pilots like you think it ok, as long as it's to pay your mortgage, keep thinking that way and eventually pilots won't qualify for a mortgage of any kind.
Pretty sure all those pilots found jobs, flying those same aircraft for Flair.
mbav8r wrote:There's a reason all this work is coming their way, cheap labour, that's it.
So Jazz is the reason skyservice went under than. They were the cheapest 57 operator out there and took the work.
Long story short, everyone's needs are different. My mortgage is super cheap due to my life style which means I don't need 120k (yes, it's nice to have though). Now someone that lives down town Vancouver will require that 120k as there choice in life style is waaay more costly than myself.
Who am I to call anyone out in there choices that they make. There choices will affect themselves in the future and they will learn. Just because someone doesn't work in the AC/Jazz world does not make them a douche.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:18 pm
by flyinhigh
mbav8r wrote:All the Suncor pilots out of work because pilots like you think it ok, as long as it's to pay your mortgage, keep thinking that way and eventually pilots won't qualify for a mortgage of any kind.
Pretty sure all those pilots found jobs, flying those same aircraft for Flair.
mbav8r wrote:There's a reason all this work is coming their way, cheap labour, that's it.
So Jazz is the reason skyservice went under than. They were the cheapest 57 operator out there and took the work.
Long story short, everyone's needs are different. My mortgage is super cheap due to my life style which means I don't need 120k (yes, it's nice to have though). Now someone that lives down town Vancouver will require that 120k as there choice in life style is waaay more costly than myself.
Who am I to call anyone out in there choices that they make. There choices will affect themselves in the future and they will learn. Just because someone doesn't work in the AC/Jazz world does not make them a douche.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:51 pm
by telex
Pretty sure all those pilots found jobs, flying those same aircraft for Flair.
You have your oil companies confused.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:57 pm
by mbav8r
flyinhigh wrote:
Pretty sure all those pilots found jobs, flying those same aircraft for Flair.
Did those pilots keep their pay or a 30% reduction, were the captains still captains?
Who fucking cares they found jobs, point is they lost their jobs and are now doing the same work for less.
So Jazz is the reason skyservice went under than. They were the cheapest 57 operator out there and took the work.
Seriously, how many times does status pay have to be explained to people, seriously!
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:00 pm
by Diadem
WestJet took a lot of that Suncor flying too. Does that make them scabs?
The laws of supply and demand state that if someone can provide the same service/product for less than the competition, then the customer will go with them and the competition will go out of business. The same applies to labour: if there are more jobs than there are applicants, those willing to work for less will be employed, and if pilot labour becomes scarce, Flair will have to raise wages to attract more. It's not pilots accepting low wages who are to blame, it's market forces; pilots accepting low wages are symptoms of over-supply. This is fundamentally how the economy has always worked, and no one owes anything to those employed in a different company. Why don't you get mad at Walmart employees for taking those jobs while other stores like Sobeys are struggling? Businesses don't exist to provide high-paying jobs to workers, as much as we would like them to, and if they can't stay afloat in a competitive environment then they need to restructure or go extinct.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:03 am
by FICU
Flair put the Shell flight department on the street. Westjet put the Suncor flight department on the street.
Re: Flair buys Newleaf
Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:39 am
by mbav8r
FICU wrote:Flair put the Shell flight department on the street. Westjet put the Suncor flight department on the street.
I stand corrected, not sure how WJ was able to save them money, is some or most of the work provided by Encore?