Air Transat YOW

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Re: Air Transat YOW

#126 Post by Old fella » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:11 pm

Of course AT will get over this embarrassing situation, bet ''tis forgotten in short order. Nothing a very good discounted vacation package wouldn't cure and perhaps AT has that just in the nick of time. Even the most ardent " emergency chute and door" poppers of the Six hour duration would be in there like a pair of dirty shorts if the price was real good. Our good buds Photofly and Rookiepilot........ I can seem them now crawling around the hills of Siena quaffing quality Chianti Classico and Brunello di Montalcino- the six hr taramac be dammed- on a steeply discounted AT package. AT does go to Rome which is south of the quaffing area in question , bet you knew that though.

:partyman: :supz: :drinkers:
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#127 Post by Eric Janson » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:20 pm

photofly wrote:
Eric Janson wrote: I'm not a legal expert but it seems to me that paragraph 2 refers to a parked aircraft with engines shut down.
It's clear it refers to an airplane undergoing maintenance. Not one with passengers on board whose engines are shut down because the crew ran the tanks dry.
That's not correct - the term 'servicing' refers to getting an aircraft ready for flight.

This includes things like Catering/Cleaning/Fuelling and is normally done with the aircraft parked at a stand or gate.

This can be done in combination with boarding passengers or with passengers already on board.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#128 Post by aerosexual » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:09 am

TFTMB heavy, I appreciate your posts, I wish there were a "like" function. I honestly think the ball was dropped in this situation by somebody somewhere, but overall you should be proud to work for Air Transat, as they do a great job day in and day out. After all the finger pointing is done, hopefully we can find out what could have been done better to avoid a situation like this from happening again.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#129 Post by rookiepilot » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:24 am

Old fella wrote:Of course AT will get over this embarrassing situation, bet ''tis forgotten in short order. Nothing a very good discounted vacation package wouldn't cure and perhaps AT has that just in the nick of time. Even the most ardent " emergency chute and door" poppers of the Six hour duration would be in there like a pair of dirty shorts if the price was real good. Our good buds Photofly and Rookiepilot........ I can seem them now crawling around the hills of Siena quaffing quality Chianti Classico and Brunello di Montalcino- the six hr taramac be dammed- on a steeply discounted AT package. AT does go to Rome which is south of the quaffing area in question , bet you knew that though.

:partyman: :supz: :drinkers:
Actually I'm in Europe right now, OF.

I don't fly AT, among a few other airlines. Far too many issues for my liking, and time and aggravation are worth far more than saving 50 bucks. I don't even consider them, even if it was free.

As I've said before, almost every European and Asian airline trumps the best of anything Canada has to offer, in service, reliability, courtesy, and safety too. And that's a fact.

As for this, we should have European regs. This kind of thing doesn't happen in Europe (despite far, far more air traffic) because the fines levied would be through the roof.

Canada is spineless as they don't either enact regs nor enforce those in place.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#130 Post by photofly » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:31 am

You don't spend a lot of time on Ryan Air, or Easyjet, then.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#131 Post by rookiepilot » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:08 pm

photofly wrote:You don't spend a lot of time on Ryan Air, or Easyjet, then.
Correct. It's called trains, when practical. Far more interesting, and civilized too. Try it sometime.
:mrgreen:

I did do one easyjet flight cause it was direct. Pay for literally everything, but friendly, on time, no issues.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#132 Post by photofly » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:52 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
photofly wrote:You don't spend a lot of time on Ryan Air, or Easyjet, then.
Correct. It's called trains, when practical. Far more interesting, and civilized too. Try it sometime.
:mrgreen:

I did do one easyjet flight cause it was direct. Pay for literally everything, but friendly, on time, no issues.
After four decades of British Rail and the London Underground - no thanks.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#133 Post by complexintentions » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:18 pm

Let me guess...you were banned for pulling the emergency brake handle in a hissy fit?
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#134 Post by photofly » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:52 am

Not yet.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#135 Post by rookiepilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:06 pm

Hearing today:

http://globalnews.ca/news/3709996/air-t ... s-testify/

http://www.bnn.ca/ground-crews-detail-d ... s-1.843948


OTTAWA -- The captain of one of two Air Transat flights that was forced to sit for hours on a sweltering Ottawa tarmac last month said Thursday he considered keeping passengers aboard the delayed aircraft to be the lesser of two evils.

Allowing passengers to disembark would have only made additional delays more likely, as opposed to the 30 minutes he was repeatedly being told it would take to refuel, Yves Saint-Laurent told Canadian Transportation Agency hearings in Ottawa.

What's more, it would have taken additional hours to get everyone off the plane and then find a fleet of buses to transport them to a hotel for the night or to Montreal, the plane's ultimate destination.

Denis Lussier, who was piloting the other flight, said he, too, was repeatedly told the wait to refuel would only be 30 minutes more. Both pilots cited a series of circumstances beyond their control -- other planes jumping the refuelling queue, as well as delays getting and connecting external power generators -- that only made matters worse.

Saint-Laurent said he would have made different decisions had he known the delay would last more than three hours. Nonetheless, he said, most passengers expressed their gratitude to him after they arrived in Montreal.

"The next day, I saw what I would call the media circus," Saint-Laurent told the hearing.

"I was shocked, surprised because I would say that most of the passengers who left the aircraft in Montreal that night said, 'Thank you."'
[/
b]

This is a good quote:

"The experience of the conditions on board the grounded flights, however, was a “matter of perception,” said Matthew Jackson, the director of flight safety for Air Transat, when asked whether the pilots were aware of how passengers were feeling.

“If I’m managing a delay and I’m talking to a passenger who’s a very nervous flyer, a 15-minute delay may be a terrible thing for that passenger,” Jackson told the hearing. “Their perception is different than the frequent flyer … who’s used to delays.”

The flight safety director further suggested the pilots might have even been hotter than some passengers on account of the polyester uniforms they wear.

“I’m not traveling in shorts and sandals and a T-shirt,” he said. “So I think I would probably feel the heat a little bit more than some travellers.”

During Wednesday’s testimony, passengers told officials they would have given anything to be allowed off the planes, even if only to face further delays or long drives home.

Jackson, Air Transat’s flight safety director, said there was almost no way to accomplish that safely.

“The only way I’m going to let 360 people out on the runway is … because I have a fire on board the aircraft or a bomb threat,” he said. “I’m not deplaning on a runway for fun.”


from Cbc:

"It would have been a logistical and financial challenge — but not an impossibility — to stop in Ottawa, he said".

TS507 eventually spent five hours on the Ottawa airport's tarmac, with passengers telling the hearing there was no air conditioning on board and people were throwing up from the heat and anxiety.

Saint-Laurent said otherwise, claiming the air conditioning was working for all but a minute or two when they were on the ground.



Besides, Saint-Laurent said, no passengers asked him to get off. Flight director Julie Clermont said the same thing.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#136 Post by photofly » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:24 pm

"Almost no way to accomplish that safely."

Interesting choice of words.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#137 Post by digits_ » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:38 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Besides, Saint-Laurent said, no passengers asked him to get off. Flight director Julie Clermont said the same thing.
I'm sure none of the passengers asked the captain for a drink either. That's usually the stuff you ask flight attendants, no?
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#138 Post by Braun » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:54 pm

digits_ wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:
Besides, Saint-Laurent said, no passengers asked him to get off. Flight director Julie Clermont said the same thing.
I'm sure none of the passengers asked the captain for a drink either. That's usually the stuff you ask flight attendants, no?
Wouldn't an FA advise the flight director in that case?
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#139 Post by digits_ » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:59 pm

Braun wrote:
digits_ wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:
Besides, Saint-Laurent said, no passengers asked him to get off. Flight director Julie Clermont said the same thing.
I'm sure none of the passengers asked the captain for a drink either. That's usually the stuff you ask flight attendants, no?
Wouldn't an FA advise the flight director in that case?
Hopefully, yes, but the quotes indicate that they use the fact that none of the passengers asked them directly to get of the plane, as an argument that things weren't bad.

They'd never ask them directly. How would you even talk to the flight director as a passenger?
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#140 Post by rookiepilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:02 pm

Passenger side of things:

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/0 ... elays.html


OTTAWA—Passengers who were trapped aboard two Air Transat jets earlier this summer described hours on end of sweltering heat, a lack of water and the stench of vomit in the cabin as a federal agency began hearings Wednesday into their ordeal.

One witness said she saw flight attendants outside on the Ottawa tarmac taking selfies alongside one stranded plane amid widespread confusion over the July 31 delays — six hours in one case, five in the other.

Another witness described a young boy running down the aisle for the toilets in the rear of the plane, but vomiting in the aisle and on passengers before he could make it to the bathrooms.

Read more:Passengers confined to plane on Ottawa runway for six hours, woman says

One by one, passengers told members of the Canadian Transportation Agency, the agency investigating the incidents, that they would have given anything to be allowed off the planes, even if only to face further delays or long drives home.

They described feeling treated like cargo by the airline, rather than as human beings and accused the carrier of being more concerned about getting the planes in the air than it was about the health and safety of its customers.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#141 Post by RRJetPilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:14 pm

rookiepilot wrote:Passenger side of things:

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/0 ... elays.html


OTTAWA—Passengers who were trapped aboard two Air Transat jets earlier this summer described hours on end of sweltering heat, a lack of water and the stench of vomit in the cabin as a federal agency began hearings Wednesday into their ordeal.

One witness said she saw flight attendants outside on the Ottawa tarmac taking selfies alongside one stranded plane amid widespread confusion over the July 31 delays — six hours in one case, five in the other.

Another witness described a young boy running down the aisle for the toilets in the rear of the plane, but vomiting in the aisle and on passengers before he could make it to the bathrooms.

Read more:Passengers confined to plane on Ottawa runway for six hours, woman says

One by one, passengers told members of the Canadian Transportation Agency, the agency investigating the incidents, that they would have given anything to be allowed off the planes, even if only to face further delays or long drives home.

They described feeling treated like cargo by the airline, rather than as human beings and accused the carrier of being more concerned about getting the planes in the air than it was about the health and safety of its customers.

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#142 Post by rookiepilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:30 pm

RRJetPilot wrote:

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL
Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#143 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:42 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
RRJetPilot wrote:

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL
Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?
The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#144 Post by Braun » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:09 pm

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
rookiepilot wrote:
RRJetPilot wrote:

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL
Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?
The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.
Wow.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#145 Post by Braun » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:11 pm

digits_ wrote:
Braun wrote:
digits_ wrote:
I'm sure none of the passengers asked the captain for a drink either. That's usually the stuff you ask flight attendants, no?
Wouldn't an FA advise the flight director in that case?
Hopefully, yes, but the quotes indicate that they use the fact that none of the passengers asked them directly to get of the plane, as an argument that things weren't bad.

They'd never ask them directly. How would you even talk to the flight director as a passenger?
True but at the same time if I am in a situation that is as horrible as people describe I would first ask FA and then his "supervisor"..I wouldn't let myself die because an FA didn't let me get off. I mean, it was bad enough to call 911 but not to ask to talk to someone in charge?
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#146 Post by RRJetPilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:06 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
RRJetPilot wrote:

These are passengers looking to make some money from the situation.
Human nature.

I watched the entire thing the last 2 days. Funny how when the emergency services arrived the passengers were asked if they wanted to get off and the declined and wanted to stay to get to Montreal. LOL
Can you provide a quote that the passengers testifying are demanding more money, and also that passengers declined to get off when (if) asked?
The transcript is gone from the video feed page. Find the transcript and read second day captains testimony when the finally found the cowardly passenger that called 911. He felt "dizzy" when the lights went out. Then he hid and they had to trace his number to find him. What a waste of a human. They asked him and others is anyone wanted to leave, guess what, answer was no.

More money because in a CBC report one was complaining about that 400$ is not enough, and the passenger that testified on the second day said he has contacted 40 passengers, clearly for a lawsuit. $$$$$$$$$$$

They wont get shit and will waste everyone's time. The Lawyers will make some bank though.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#147 Post by Eric Janson » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:38 am

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.
Sounds like another entitled GenY/Millenial. Most of them are children who have never grown up and are poorly equipped to handle the real world.

They're always screaming about their 'Rights' - they're not too good when it comes to 'Responsibility' or 'Accountability'.

If this had been my flight I would have done things the same way - I can't fault the Crew.
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#148 Post by timel » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:26 am

Eric Janson wrote:
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
The very person who called 911 first refused to identify himself, only did when his number was read on the P/A and then kept changing the reason he had called 911. He then declined to deplane after he was offered to do so and remained another 2 hours + on the aircraft, with his family until the aircraft arrived in YUL.

FACT.
Sounds like another entitled GenY/Millenial. Most of them are children who have never grown up and are poorly equipped to handle the real world.

They're always screaming about their 'Rights' - they're not too good when it comes to 'Responsibility' or 'Accountability'.

If this had been my flight I would have done things the same way - I can't fault the Crew.

Welllll, that was free, for the record this is the champion's face. He looks likes a 70s to me. You guys can't blame it all on us.
IMG_3472.PNG
IMG_3472.PNG (885.8 KiB) Viewed 2208 times

Dear boomers, this is for you, time will show we aren't that bad :mrgreen: : https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... eitel.html
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Re: Air Transat YOW

#149 Post by complexintentions » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:44 am

The whole story is coming out pretty much exactly as I expected. Crew trying to do the best they could, pax in an uncomfortable spot, and a few entitled Twitter queens conflating it into a humanitarian crisis. Must be a disappointment to the keyboard justice warriors.
“The only way I’m going to let 360 people out on the runway is … because I have a fire on board the aircraft or a bomb threat,” he said. “I’m not deplaning on a runway for fun.”
Well, obviously this guy hasn't met our friend photofly! :mrgreen:
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2017 Air Transat Tarmac Delay Inquiry

#150 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:18 am

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