Flair in YYZ/YVR
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
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Re: Flair in YYZ/YVR
Running 20 year old 737-400’s with 156 seats head to head with Swoops 3 year old, 189 seat -800’s is a hopelessly flawed plan.
Even with zero monthly lease payments, (and the owner of those -400’s didn’t buy those birds and put them into service with the idea of getting no return on his investment), they have horrible economics. They can’t get anywhere near the daily utilization of 3 year old -800’s.
Add more seats and their range is reduced, making them even less suitable for off peak ACMI work...remember Transat’s “Mexican game”? Go full density and even west bound winter trans con flying is problematic. It’s simply the wrong airplane.
Flair will implode fairly quickly as Swoop gets going with its economics and the sorts of fares that will hit the markets Swoop will focus on.
In an incredibly dumb move, Flair backed down on charging fees for cabin baggage, a source of revenue that is absolutely vital to survival for ULCC’s when offering and advertising el cheapo fares. Revenue has to come from somewhere.
The outcome is inevitable and is why Jim R pulled the ‘chute on the thing, with Flair / New Leaf on their 3rd management team since launch.
Even with zero monthly lease payments, (and the owner of those -400’s didn’t buy those birds and put them into service with the idea of getting no return on his investment), they have horrible economics. They can’t get anywhere near the daily utilization of 3 year old -800’s.
Add more seats and their range is reduced, making them even less suitable for off peak ACMI work...remember Transat’s “Mexican game”? Go full density and even west bound winter trans con flying is problematic. It’s simply the wrong airplane.
Flair will implode fairly quickly as Swoop gets going with its economics and the sorts of fares that will hit the markets Swoop will focus on.
In an incredibly dumb move, Flair backed down on charging fees for cabin baggage, a source of revenue that is absolutely vital to survival for ULCC’s when offering and advertising el cheapo fares. Revenue has to come from somewhere.
The outcome is inevitable and is why Jim R pulled the ‘chute on the thing, with Flair / New Leaf on their 3rd management team since launch.
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Re: Flair in YYZ/YVR
From what I've been reading and researching, I would agree with this. Flair CASM is close to Westjet Mainline at 11cents. (westjet 12.3)
Swoop is targeting 6 or 7 cents, the airplane type and configuration makes this CASM a possibility. Swoop will be able to operate more reliable and cheaper service. But Flair could get investment for 737-800s to fix this.
Swoop is targeting 6 or 7 cents, the airplane type and configuration makes this CASM a possibility. Swoop will be able to operate more reliable and cheaper service. But Flair could get investment for 737-800s to fix this.
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Re: Flair in YYZ/YVR
You think Flair, and all the others, haven’t been beating the bushes everywhere looking for investors for the past 18 months?
Now that Swoop has launched, would you invest in Flair or any of the others?
Now that Swoop has launched, would you invest in Flair or any of the others?
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Re: Flair in YYZ/YVR
Yes.Realitychex wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:10 am
Now that Swoop has launched, would you invest in Flair or any of the others?
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Re: Flair in YYZ/YVR
737-800's are great but the problem for Swoop is that the parent company has some possible major labour issues. (Or already has them)
- rookiepilot
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Re: Flair in YYZ/YVR
Not a chance. Aviation is such a minefield.Realitychex wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:10 am You think Flair, and all the others, haven’t been beating the bushes everywhere looking for investors for the past 18 months?
Now that Swoop has launched, would you invest in Flair or any of the others?
BTW --- It's a loose theory of mine new airlines (in Canada) come out at the top of the business cycle, when the economy is best and money easiest. If that's true......this nice gravy train for pilots might have a limited amount of drip life left....get settled.
My $.02. Worth about that much.