Cockroaches?

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SuperchargedRS
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Cockroaches?

#1 Post by SuperchargedRS » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:38 pm

So I've noticed in a few recent posts that many Canadian pilots seem to be eager to flee Canada for "greener pastures", such as the US where pilots refuse to work for crap pay, maybe instead of being a importable cheap labor, might it be a better idea to just fix the industry in Canada instead of being scabs?

I mean if you don't take the low paying jobs, the companies will ether raise the pay or shut it the frack down, ether way its a win.


Just a thought
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Re: Cockroaches?

#2 Post by confusedalot » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:45 pm

In the same line of thinking, I suspect that it goes beyond the airplane business....

Pay seems to be substandard in any field you work in here in canadastan.

The US has always been a draw for everyone; I saw a building contractor on TV pull up his stakes and moved everything, including his family, to Vegas.

This country is was it is.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#3 Post by leftoftrack » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:45 am

The quality of life for a regional pilot has changed dramatically in the US due to supply and demand in the last 3 years. The more Canadian pilots they absorb the closer we get to the tipping point where no one will work for shitte wages. Alll boats are raised in a rising tide.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#4 Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:53 am

By going to the US for a higher paying job you are not taking the low paying job. Same thing.

You have dual citizenship, and all the license requirements. There are 2 offers on the table $38,000cad from Jazz and $60,000usd from Envoy. Seems like a bit of a no-brainer. I'd hardly call that being a scab.

https://www.envoyair.com/pilots/
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Re: Cockroaches?

#5 Post by SuperchargedRS » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am

Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.

Besides its kinda a mute point as no one is getting a visa to work for a airline over here, especially with how many qualified pilots are in the US.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#6 Post by mbav8r » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:46 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:38 pm
So I've noticed in a few recent posts that many Canadian pilots seem to be eager to flee Canada for "greener pastures", such as the US where pilots refuse to work for crap pay, maybe instead of being a importable cheap labor, might it be a better idea to just fix the industry in Canada instead of being scabs?

I mean if you don't take the low paying jobs, the companies will ether raise the pay or shut it the frack down, ether way its a win.


Just a thought
Do you see the contradiction? If pilots are refusing to work for crap pay, which by the way is a newish development, the US regional was the original “race to the bottom”, how could a Canadian pilot working for the current conditions be considered to be cheap labour?
Also, do you feel Canadian pilots who choose to going to China or wherever a scab? Them leaving for greener pastures will have the same effect as turning down crap pay here
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Re: Cockroaches?

#7 Post by Victory » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:06 am

Honestly you just sound jealous that you can't/won't go overseas and make 2-4x what you would in Canada.
Experienced pilots leaving for more money is the best thing that can happen for the Canadian airline industry in terms of pilot wage increases.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#8 Post by digits_ » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:11 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am
Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.
And what would happen if all airline pilots started applying for corporate jobs do you think? :roll:
Or do you mean that all junior airline pilots should apply for corporate jobs, so the senior guys can keep their cushy high paying jobs?

Here's another possible solution: have the union agree to a flat pay for all captains/fos. Calculate what the average pilot makes at the company, and pay everyone that. Problem solved, no more low paying jobs! After all, you are all doing the same job, so getting the same pay would only be fair...
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Re: Cockroaches?

#9 Post by BE20 Driver » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:01 pm

I'm not sure I see the solution. I assume most of us don't have dual citizenship and can't go to 'merica. So, what you're proposing is that people stay at their $55k 1900 jobs vs going to say WS or AC? Both airlines are a sacrifice for the first 4 years but have pay scales that eventually go higher. Both AC and WS are behind the curve internationally and should be paying more. Full stop.

Everyone has their own line in the sand and should have the right to decide whether the compensation and benefits of moving to a new company work for them or not. If someone decides not to go to a company because the compensation sucks, that's a win. So is going to a company and then effing off for China with 500 PIC on type. Both send a similar message. Neither decision makes another pilot a cockroach or a scab in my mind.

I wish this world and the decisions in it were as black and white as some people espouse on here.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#10 Post by Liftdump » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:12 pm

You don’t just go fly CORPORATE that’s not how it works.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#11 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:27 pm

Only thing I'm loyal to is my family.

Leave Canada if in my best interests? In any career?

Bye. Later. See ya. :mrgreen:


Oh -- edit.

The real scabs are the gutless mouthpieces telling everyone to "take a stand" while they watch from the sidelines......lead by example
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Re: Cockroaches?

#12 Post by telex » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:14 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:38 pm
So I've noticed in a few recent posts that many Canadian pilots seem to be eager to flee Canada for "greener pastures", such as the US where pilots refuse to work for crap pay, maybe instead of being a importable cheap labor, might it be a better idea to just fix the industry in Canada instead of being scabs?

I mean if you don't take the low paying jobs, the companies will ether raise the pay or shut it the frack down, ether way its a win.


Just a thought
How drunk were you when you posted this garbage?

Is it a cockroach or a scab that leaves for greener pastures?

How do you intend to fix the Canadian industry?
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Re: Cockroaches?

#13 Post by TG » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:15 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am
Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.

Besides its kinda a mute point as no one is getting a visa to work for a airline over here, especially with how many qualified pilots are in the US.
Like said above:
-You just don’t go fly corporate.
-Going overseas or in the States (anywhere would require a right to work) is kind of implying that you don’t accept Canadian’s poor wages.

Then you are absolutely right by saying you should fix your own country first.
Canada is a big culprit in that department towards third world countries by accepting skilled worker from there as migrants. The kind of people that would be way more valuable in their own countries but are fleeing instead of trying to fix it.

But that’s another topic.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#14 Post by Canuck1988 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:10 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am
Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.

Besides its kinda a mute point as no one is getting a visa to work for a airline over here, especially with how many qualified pilots are in the US.
I will add nothing to this conversation except that the term is "a moot point" not "a mute point". May you have the happiest of New Years and god rest ye merry gentlemen.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#15 Post by HansDietrich » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:27 pm

I hate myself a little more and more every day when I see that I "willingly" work for under 40K a year. It's like that crack addict that knows what he's doing is wrong but can't stop... I don't know what I'm waiting for... maybe that PIC job that will eventually come and I can make a bit more.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#16 Post by nightbird » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm

Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#17 Post by HansDietrich » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:22 pm

nightbird wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm
Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.
Best answer on AVCANADA! Ever!
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Re: Cockroaches?

#18 Post by FL007 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:40 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am
Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.

Besides its kinda a mute point as no one is getting a visa to work for a airline over here, especially with how many qualified pilots are in the US.
This is a troll post for sure..

Fix your own country instead of screwing with another country? First, leaving your country creates the shortage of work that will affect the demand of skilled pilots thus increasing pay *ahem* in theory. However bottom feeder airlines are applying and being granted government exemptions to foreign labor, ie; Evas, and previously, Sunwing.

A big problem now is that the undercutting in Canada isn't being done by Canadian pilots anymore, foreign workers who are willing to work for ridiculously low wages are accepting positions just to live in Canada.

I wish I could jump ship to the US and work, however an airline pilot isn't a career deemed acceptable for a work visa, yet. I commend the US government for keeping such a tight ship though. The only entity feeling the pressure are the airlines themselves, which are paying top dollar and have guaranteed flow to mainline carriers.

We just have to sit and wait for the government to do their part here.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#19 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:04 am

I think a few people have the right idea, by fleeing for greener pastures, causes an immediate decrease in available pilots, which will eventually cause the markets to adjust.

By staying and accepting the low pay jobs because companies are unwilling to negotiate outside of the union means that we are validating their shitty pay.

If you have taken notice, most jobs that are non unionized are payed on a more competitive scale as they are able to adjust more fluidly to market demand. Specifically referencing corporate operators across the country.

Sorry supercharged, you're barking up the wrong tree bud.

S.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#20 Post by SuperchargedRS » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 am

nightbird wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm
Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.

Yes I do

BUT, since I'm not a commie, a socalist or your mommie I won't pay for your lunch, your house or hold your hand.

You need to be a man and do these things for yourself.
FL007 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:40 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am
Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.

Besides its kinda a mute point as no one is getting a visa to work for a airline over here, especially with how many qualified pilots are in the US.
This is a troll post for sure..

Fix your own country instead of screwing with another country? First, leaving your country creates the shortage of work that will affect the demand of skilled pilots thus increasing pay *ahem* in theory. However bottom feeder airlines are applying and being granted government exemptions to foreign labor, ie; Evas, and previously, Sunwing.

A big problem now is that the undercutting in Canada isn't being done by Canadian pilots anymore, foreign workers who are willing to work for ridiculously low wages are accepting positions just to live in Canada.

I wish I could jump ship to the US and work, however an airline pilot isn't a career deemed acceptable for a work visa, yet. I commend the US government for keeping such a tight ship though. The only entity feeling the pressure are the airlines themselves, which are paying top dollar and have guaranteed flow to mainline carriers.

We just have to sit and wait for the government to do their part here.

It's not the government, it's the people, the people control the government.

If a company hired a foreign pilot and all the other line pilots called in sick for 3 days straight, that's something.

Or took shifts protesting in front of the immigration office for a week or two.

And going to another country that doesn't have a strong pilot population is one thing, which is fine.

Going to somewhere like the US which has the biggest pilot population on earth and taking jobs that US pilots are not taking because of low pay, that's more or less being a scab.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#21 Post by telex » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 am
nightbird wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm
Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.

Yes I do

BUT, since I'm not a commie, a socalist or your mommie I won't pay for your lunch, your house or hold your hand.

You need to be a man and do these things for yourself.
FL007 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:40 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am
Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something till the Canadian airlines get their chit together, that's what many American ATPs are doing.

Besides its kinda a mute point as no one is getting a visa to work for a airline over here, especially with how many qualified pilots are in the US.
This is a troll post for sure..

Fix your own country instead of screwing with another country? First, leaving your country creates the shortage of work that will affect the demand of skilled pilots thus increasing pay *ahem* in theory. However bottom feeder airlines are applying and being granted government exemptions to foreign labor, ie; Evas, and previously, Sunwing.

A big problem now is that the undercutting in Canada isn't being done by Canadian pilots anymore, foreign workers who are willing to work for ridiculously low wages are accepting positions just to live in Canada.

I wish I could jump ship to the US and work, however an airline pilot isn't a career deemed acceptable for a work visa, yet. I commend the US government for keeping such a tight ship though. The only entity feeling the pressure are the airlines themselves, which are paying top dollar and have guaranteed flow to mainline carriers.

We just have to sit and wait for the government to do their part here.

It's not the government, it's the people, the people control the government.

If a company hired a foreign pilot and all the other line pilots called in sick for 3 days straight, that's something.

Or took skirts protesting in front of the immigration office for a week or two.

And going to another country that doesn't have a strong pilot population is one thing, which is fine.

Going to somewhere like the US which has the biggest pilot population on earth and taking jobs that US pilots are not taking because of low pay, that's more or less being a scab.
Here's what a scab is:

"A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running."

In your world this only applies if one goes to work in the US with no strike action? One is not more or less a scab. One is or one is not.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#22 Post by nightbird » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:06 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 am
nightbird wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm
Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.

Yes I do

BUT, since I'm not a commie, a socalist or your mommie I won't pay for your lunch, your house or hold your hand.
Please tell me your “high paying job” is not flying a PC12 for Ornge based in the middle of nowhere... it sounds like you need a bit more help than I do lol.
I’ve had my fare share of shitty jobs with no regrets, they put me where I am today, which by the way pays a little bit better than Ornge, and when I say a bit I mean almost double, and I have hot coffee and warm crew meals on demand.
So thanks mom but I’m doing just fine on my own ... lol
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Re: Cockroaches?

#23 Post by SuperchargedRS » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:51 pm

telex wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am

Here's what a scab is:

"A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running."

In your world this only applies if one goes to work in the US with no strike action? One is not more or less a scab. One is or one is not.
Yeah, exactly

Basically the whole countries experienced pilot population is on "strike", they aren't going to work for crap pay, so the crap paying regionals are having staffing issues, thus are slowly raising their pay, though they still have a WAYS to go.

So if you were to come here because our crap paying regionals pay more than your super crap paying regionals you would be filling jobs that many US pilots refuse to fill due to working conditions/pay/etc, and that's undercutting US pilots who are actually slowly bringing the industry up by refusing to work for crap.






nightbird wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:06 pm
Please tell me your “high paying job” is not flying a PC12 for Ornge based in the middle of nowhere... it sounds like you need a bit more help than I do lol.
I’ve had my fare share of shitty jobs with no regrets, they put me where I am today, which by the way pays a little bit better than Ornge, and when I say a bit I mean almost double, and I have hot coffee and warm crew meals on demand.
So thanks mom but I’m doing just fine on my own ... lol

Hey, you were the one comming up to me with his hand out lol

But no, I don't fly for ornge, I wouldn't fly a single pilot plane with two crew, just seems silly, but I do fly a PC12 for work, make well into the six figures, union, work half the year, home every night, and though your crew meals (is that like a lunchable? Or one of those meals served in a tinfoil box thing?) and warm coffee sounds life sustaining, I'll take my nice BBQ, full kitchen, expresso machine, satellite and high speed internet at work thanks. :)
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Re: Cockroaches?

#24 Post by rookiepilot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm

Supercharged, just curious -- under your logic, reverse the circumstances, lockouts are cool, then, too?
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Re: Cockroaches?

#25 Post by confusedalot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:33 pm

Sounds like the whole idea of commuter contractors may be falling apart. If it costs the same to outsource as it is to operate in house, why not just pull operations back into mothercorp?

Any ideas?
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