Cockroaches?

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SuperchargedRS
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Re: Cockroaches?

#26 Post by SuperchargedRS » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:35 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm
Supercharged, just curious -- under your logic, if you want to call it that,

You must like lockouts then. Preferable to a company shifting work to another country? Same thing, right? Just deny employment.

I'm guessing not.

Freemarket to an extent


But yeah, you don't like what a company does moving jobs away, don't do business, and push YOUR government, because the bastards work for YOU, to tariff the crap out of that company.

They are free to move jobs, you are free to pressure government to make life hard for them, airlines are free to pay crap, you are free to not fly for them, no pilots no flying, no flying to revenue for the airline, and given enough losses the airlines are going to fix that problem by tossing some much needed money at it, or they'll shut down and someone a little smarter will start up and go right where they went wrong.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#27 Post by rookiepilot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:52 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:35 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm
Supercharged, just curious -- under your logic, if you want to call it that,

You must like lockouts then. Preferable to a company shifting work to another country? Same thing, right? Just deny employment.

I'm guessing not.

Freemarket to an extent


But yeah, you don't like what a company does moving jobs away, don't do business, and push YOUR government, because the bastards work for YOU, to tariff the crap out of that company.

They are free to move jobs, you are free to pressure government to make life hard for them, airlines are free to pay crap, you are free to not fly for them, no pilots no flying, no flying to revenue for the airline, and given enough losses the airlines are going to fix that problem by tossing some much needed money at it, or they'll shut down and someone a little smarter will start up and go right where they went wrong.
You ought to study what happens when governments raise minimum wages too far. Job losses.

And companies are free to close their doors. Everyone has choice.

Anyway, I'm not in the industry, don't really care, but I don't work for other people. I'm a free agent, and if I was flying, and China or other places were far better, and I didn't mind the lifestyle, I'd be gone In a heartbeat.

Hey, I like Canada, but my own security is far more important than the union "brotherhood"

LOL --
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Re: Cockroaches?

#28 Post by SuperchargedRS » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:55 pm

I'm not talking minimum wage.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#29 Post by confusedalot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm

Couple of things that ALPA calculated in the past...

''pilot pay'' constitutes 4% of total operating expenses.

If airfares were raised by 10-20 dollars per ticket, (so your 400 dollar ticket now costs 420 dollars), we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since there would not be a ''problem''.

Carry on.....

As an afterthought, few employees in the airline business, if any, make minimum wage.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#30 Post by telex » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:45 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:51 pm
telex wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am

Here's what a scab is:

"A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who are not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running."

In your world this only applies if one goes to work in the US with no strike action? One is not more or less a scab. One is or one is not.
Yeah, exactly

Basically the whole countries experienced pilot population is on "strike", they aren't going to work for crap pay, so the crap paying regionals are having staffing issues, thus are slowly raising their pay, though they still have a WAYS to go.





Can you provide any evidence to support your claim?
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Re: Cockroaches?

#31 Post by Oldguystrtn2fly » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:42 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm
Couple of things that ALPA calculated in the past...

''pilot pay'' constitutes 4% of total operating expenses.

If airfares were raised by 10-20 dollars per ticket, (so your 400 dollar ticket now costs 420 dollars), we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since there would not be a ''problem''.

Carry on.....

As an afterthought, few employees in the airline business, if any, make minimum wage.
If every industry did this, raised the cost to the consumer, so in fact everything increased in cost, would the raise to the worker actually mean anything? I mean they have to buy things too right.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#32 Post by rookiepilot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:57 pm

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:42 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm
Couple of things that ALPA calculated in the past...

''pilot pay'' constitutes 4% of total operating expenses.

If airfares were raised by 10-20 dollars per ticket, (so your 400 dollar ticket now costs 420 dollars), we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since there would not be a ''problem''.

Carry on.....

As an afterthought, few employees in the airline business, if any, make minimum wage.
If every industry did this, raised the cost to the consumer, so in fact everything increased in cost, would the raise to the worker actually mean anything? I mean they have to buy things too right.
Someone who gets it.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#33 Post by FOD » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:29 am

nightbird wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm
Let's make a deal since you obviously have a good high paying job. I will stop accepting low paying jobs and sit at home all day if you agree to pay my bills and send me a check for the same amount that my low paying job was providing.
Or even better go get me a job where I can make more money and I will be happy to show my company the middle finger.
Until you pay my bills or get me an offer to a better job that is adequate to my needs you have no F&&^ saying on what I do or don't do with my life.
MUAHAHAHA and Turdeau says Canada doens't have a core set of values... HAHAHAHAHAHAAH

you want to get ahead, then do like old stock Canadians did. Pick up and leave for better (greener) pastures. Grow a pair and make a hard choice.

FOD
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Re: Cockroaches?

#34 Post by co-joe » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:03 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:09 am
Or you could try to fix your own country instead of screwing with another country.

Go fly corporate or something...
Yeah OK Marie Antoinette. Let them eat cake...
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Re: Cockroaches?

#35 Post by justwork » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:49 am

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:38 pm
So I've noticed in a few recent posts that many Canadian pilots seem to be eager to flee Canada for "greener pastures", such as the US where pilots refuse to work for crap pay, maybe instead of being a importable cheap labor, might it be a better idea to just fix the industry in Canada instead of being scabs?

I mean if you don't take the low paying jobs, the companies will ether raise the pay or shut it the frack down, ether way its a win.


Just a thought
Who is the cockroach? I left Canada because I can make 5 times the money, and work half the time, if I work overseas. So to me, you're the cockroach for sticking it out at any airline in Canada.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#36 Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 pm

I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
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Re: Cockroaches?

#37 Post by telex » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:27 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 pm
I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
Are you serious or still drunk from your new year's drinking binge?

Where is evidence of this epidemic of Canadian pilots crossing the border to take low paying regional jobs in the USA?

In your delusion what countries do you think Canadians could work in without you labelling them a roach? Or is it scab?
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Re: Cockroaches?

#38 Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:28 pm

telex wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:27 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 pm
I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
Are you serious or still drunk from your new year's drinking binge?

Where is evidence of this epidemic of Canadian pilots crossing the border to take low paying regional jobs in the USA?

In your delusion what countries do you think Canadians could work in without you labelling them a roach? Or is it scab?
Did I say there was an "epidemic" of Canadians coming down south?
No, I didn't, I even said that they wouldn't be able to get a visa anyways.

This topic was related to a few other threads where folks talked about going down south to work if they could.

You really should read the whole thread before you comment, maybe take notes too lol


As per the second part, dude.... again with reading, here let me quote myself, sound each word out and let me know if you need further assistance.


"Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach"
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Re: Cockroaches?

#39 Post by rookiepilot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:00 pm

RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#40 Post by telex » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:06 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:28 pm
telex wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:27 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 pm
I said it like 5 times already.

Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach
Are you serious or still drunk from your new year's drinking binge?

Where is evidence of this epidemic of Canadian pilots crossing the border to take low paying regional jobs in the USA?

In your delusion what countries do you think Canadians could work in without you labelling them a roach? Or is it scab?
Did I say there was an "epidemic" of Canadians coming down south?
No, I didn't, I even said that they wouldn't be able to get a visa anyways.

This topic was related to a few other threads where folks talked about going down south to work if they could.

You really should read the whole thread before you comment, maybe take notes too lol


As per the second part, dude.... again with reading, here let me quote myself, sound each word out and let me know if you need further assistance.


"Going to another country without a strong pilot population to fill jobs, fine.

Going to a another country (USA) that has a even stronger pilot population than Canada to take a job Americans don't take due to the pay being low, being a roach"
I can't figure out why you are only interested in protecting American jobs. Your philosophy is border dependant? So again what countries do you allow a Canadian to work in without applying your label of scab or roach?
You say the experienced pilots in the entire USA are on strike against low paying regional jobs? Who is in that group? The the Navajo and KingAir pilots or who are you referencing? It's a group of individuals with no association who are refusing advancement into jets to improve the industry? The least experienced people in the industry are going to improve it by themselves as an unorganized group of individuals?
Can you explain your experience and involvement in the American industry? I'm sure it would help me understand.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#41 Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:26 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:00 pm
RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.

Sweet baby jesus.....

I am leading by example since I won't work for a crap paying airline....
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Re: Cockroaches?

#42 Post by telex » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:58 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:26 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:00 pm
RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.

Sweet baby jesus.....

I am leading by example since I won't work for a crap paying airline....
You're an inspiration to low timers like me.
Can you provide a list of countries you deem acceptable for Canadians not to be labeled scabs or roaches and the minimum pay that would be acceptable to you?
Sharing your success and greatness with us is solid motivation to follow in your footsteps.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#43 Post by justwork » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:57 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:26 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:00 pm
RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.

Sweet baby jesus.....

I am leading by example since I won't work for a crap paying airline....
So you don’t work in Canada then?
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Re: Cockroaches?

#44 Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:34 pm

The reason pilots aren't working in the states is because nobody wants to be a pilot there anymore. Word got out that they paid crap 2 years ago. Ergo, nobody went through training. Few new pilots. Now that pay went up, bad reputation takes a while to change. There isn't this mythical 50 000 FAA ATP pilots working at McD's waiting to fly a CRJ200 for 100g a year. The US airline industry has made the job so unappealing that nobody wanted to do it. Improve conditions to way above what was offered (and what Canada offers) and it still takes time for the reputation to change.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#45 Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:26 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:34 pm
The reason pilots aren't working in the states is because nobody wants to be a pilot there anymore. Word got out that they paid crap 2 years ago. Ergo, nobody went through training. Few new pilots. Now that pay went up, bad reputation takes a while to change. There isn't this mythical 50 000 FAA ATP pilots working at McD's waiting to fly a CRJ200 for 100g a year. The US airline industry has made the job so unappealing that nobody wanted to do it. Improve conditions to way above what was offered (and what Canada offers) and it still takes time for the reputation to change.

For one, the US has more qualified pilots than probably any other country.

For two most regional pilots ain't making 100kUSD a year clean (just off CBA)

For three lots of pilots making money in other facets of aviation, not hard to walk into a nice 135 gig with the same qualifications that a regional looks for.

Also the cost of flight training and lack of being able to borrow money for it has been a big factor in how many pilots have been getting churned out.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#46 Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:28 pm

justwork wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:57 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:26 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:00 pm
RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.

Sweet baby jesus.....

I am leading by example since I won't work for a crap paying airline....
So you don’t work in Canada then?
Currently no.

But I was also born just outside of studio city.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#47 Post by confusedalot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:55 pm

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:42 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm
Couple of things that ALPA calculated in the past...

''pilot pay'' constitutes 4% of total operating expenses.

If airfares were raised by 10-20 dollars per ticket, (so your 400 dollar ticket now costs 420 dollars), we wouldn't even be having this conversation, since there would not be a ''problem''.

Carry on.....

As an afterthought, few employees in the airline business, if any, make minimum wage.
If every industry did this, raised the cost to the consumer, so in fact everything increased in cost, would the raise to the worker actually mean anything? I mean they have to buy things too right.
My point exactly, every industry HAS raised prices over time, but airfares have gone down. So it's not really any surprise that some airline employee groups felt the heat with stagnant or reducing wages. Fuel, airframes, secretaries and other employee groups will not come down, and why should they if they get a better deal elsewhere, but airplane drivers are a captive audience who can.....only fly airplanes.....There are limited places where an air operator can cut, and driver salaries are one of those few places.

This thread made me think of my young years; I was flying a cessna 402 for 30000 a year in 1985, that would be 68000 in todays dollars. How much does a 402 driver make now?
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Re: Cockroaches?

#48 Post by SuperchargedRS » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:04 pm

telex wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:58 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:26 pm
rookiepilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:00 pm
RS -- Dude. You Got a lotta passion for this subject of Canadian pay. So I got a suggestion for you.

(Read slowly and carefully.)

Borrow a million or 2,

Start an aviation company,

Pay twice what everyone else is paying.

Lead by example, dude. With your dough.

We will all be inspired. I promise.

Sweet baby jesus.....

I am leading by example since I won't work for a crap paying airline....
You're an inspiration to low timers like me.
Can you provide a list of countries you deem acceptable for Canadians not to be labeled scabs or roaches and the minimum pay that would be acceptable to you?
Sharing your success and greatness with us is solid motivation to follow in your footsteps.
That's cute.

Who cares about fucking labels? You care what people think about you? Really? I care about my industry and my damn bank account.

To fly a 15 MILLION USD jet with 100 people aboard, starting wage needs to be 100kUSD STARTING, and by that I mean clean per the CBA.

And per countries, if you can't read what I reposted about that.. like 6 times, you lack the mental hardware to make it anyways, just put a app into Timmys now.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#49 Post by telex » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:57 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:04 pm
telex wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:58 pm
SuperchargedRS wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:26 pm



Sweet baby jesus.....

I am leading by example since I won't work for a crap paying airline....
You're an inspiration to low timers like me.
Can you provide a list of countries you deem acceptable for Canadians not to be labeled scabs or roaches and the minimum pay that would be acceptable to you?
Sharing your success and greatness with us is solid motivation to follow in your footsteps.
That's cute.

Who cares about fucking labels? You care what people think about you? Really? I care about my industry and my damn bank account.

To fly a 15 MILLION USD jet with 100 people aboard, starting wage needs to be 100kUSD STARTING, and by that I mean clean per the CBA.

And per countries, if you can't read what I reposted about that.. like 6 times, you lack the mental hardware to make it anyways, just put a app into Timmys now.
I suppose you care about labels. Title of the thread is Cockroaches (started by you). That's a label. Then you go on to say it's better to just fix the Canadian industry rather than be a scab. That's another label. Provided by you.

You care about your bank account as most of us do but you have the envious position of judging what an acceptable income for everyone else is? How did you earn that position?

Is it the cost of the jet or the seating capacity which determines salary in your delusion? In your expert opinion who gets paid more; a B767 pilot with 260 passengers or a B787 pilot with 200 passengers?

100USD is 125CAN. I challenge you to find any direct entry captain job on any jet in Canada that pays your minimum. So is it a scab or a roach in these positions now?

I guess I'll continue being a sandwich artist to improve the industry and your bank account which you care so much about until I'm offered $125 000 to start.

As for the list of countries lacking pilots which you deem acceptable for a low timer like me to break in to the industry without being a roach or scab. I'm still waiting for your guidance. You can list them by region, company, aircraft type, or pay scale.
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Re: Cockroaches?

#50 Post by TeePeeCreeper » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:00 am

[/quote]
To fly a 15 MILLION USD jet with 100 people aboard, starting wage needs to be 100kUSD STARTING, and by that I mean clean per the CBA.

And per countries, if you can't read what I reposted about that.. like 6 times, you lack the mental hardware to make it anyways, just put a app into Timmys now.
[/quote]


Ever think anger therapy might be up your alley?

Calling any of your fellow brethren a “cockroach” based on what you seem to believe to be a betrayal but what might be a fellow who needs to put bread on the table for their family seems... pompous to say the least!
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