ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

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NewCommercialPilot
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ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#1 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:34 am

Now, I think some/many/none/most on this board realize that I wasn't a fan of ALPA intruding into the relationship between myself and my employer. Que sera, sera. That said, I don't think it unfair to be critical of ALPA for allowing the forces social justice to intrude upon their ranks. I understand what ALPA was trying to say about their actions after the recent evacuation in YYZ, an evacuation by a crew who, it would seem from all reports, together acted professionally in discharging their duties. ALPA meant to say something like this:
"...after arriving upon scene to assist the ALPA pilots involved in the incident, a room was provided near the airport in which the pilots could be sequestered away from the public, press, and the company."
Instead, what their press release writer, someone likely recently educated (post 2005 ish) in the social sciences (women studies, intersectionality, patriarchy, white oppression et al) at a (small 'l') liberal dominated college, was a Hilary supporter, and wrote was:
The Crew was taken to a safe place and once their personal needs were looked after, the ALPA representation department prepped them for the TSB investigation (standard procedure for any incident of this nature).
Did ALPA provide a therapy dog for use in this safe place? Soft music?

Kudos to ALPA for doing the job they get (or will get) paid for. I have no issues with that. Just keep the molly-coddling language away from pilots. Do police/fire fighters/soldiers and other first responders get "safe places" after traumatic incidents, or are all professions now made up of snowflakes? My good friend Rod tells me that that the Constabulary in NF provides an after-action interview the day after an incident, and it would seem all (according to Hollywood depictions) police forces etc provide counsellors to their employees on an as needed basis following traumatic episodes. It's what companies do these days.

Perhaps the checklist of the future will have a "How are you feeling" item.
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#2 Post by digits_ » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:39 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:34 am
Now, I think some/many/none/most on this board realize that I wasn't a fan of ALPA intruding into the relationship between myself and my employer. Que sera, sera. That said, I don't think it unfair to be critical of ALPA for allowing the forces social justice to intrude upon their ranks. I understand what ALPA was trying to say about their actions after the recent evacuation in YYZ, an evacuation by a crew who, it would seem from all reports, together acted professionally in discharging their duties. ALPA meant to say something like this:
"...after arriving upon scene to assist the ALPA pilots involved in the incident, a room was provided near the airport in which the pilots could be sequestered away from the public, press, and the company."
Instead, what their press release writer, someone likely recently educated (post 2005 ish) in the social sciences (women studies, intersectionality, patriarchy, white oppression et al) at a (small 'l') liberal dominated college, was a Hilary supporter, and wrote was:
The Crew was taken to a safe place and once their personal needs were looked after, the ALPA representation department prepped them for the TSB investigation (standard procedure for any incident of this nature).
Did ALPA provide a therapy dog for use in this safe place? Soft music?

Kudos to ALPA for doing the job they get (or will get) paid for. I have no issues with that. Just keep the molly-coddling language away from pilots. Do police/fire fighters/soldiers and other first responders get "safe places" after traumatic incidents, or are all professions now made up of snowflakes? My good friend Rod tells me that that the Constabulary in NF provides an after-action interview the day after an incident, and it would seem all (according to Hollywood depictions) police forces etc provide counsellors to their employees on an as needed basis following traumatic episodes. It's what companies do these days.

Perhaps the checklist of the future will have a "How are you feeling" item.
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a place to calm down for a bit after an intense moment. When they decided to give the pilots a "safe place", it probably wasn't clear if it was a non-event or something really serious. Gives you time for your self to figure out what really happened.

Instead of a therapy dog, I'd like to have lawyer in mine though, if I ever need one.
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#3 Post by Jim la Jungle » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:45 am

I'd like to read said press release; where is it?

Thanks
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#4 Post by rudder » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:53 am

If you understand Human Factors, PTSD, and the legal implications of any comments or statements made by the pilots in the wake of an accident or serious incident, then you would appreciate the need for flight crew sequestration in the aftermath until a medical assessment has been conducted and legal representation is available.

This is SOP at ALPA and IFALPA.

It is my understanding that it was a DH ALPA pilot on the AC YHZ accident flight that assisted in initially securing the AC pilots until ACPA could be contacted to make the necessary arrangements to provide for the medical, psychological, and legal needs of the flight crew.

ALPA has been in the business of representing pilots for many, many decades. There is not much that ALPA has not seen and does not know about pilot response to high stress events and legal consequences. Drawing on that expertise is one of the benefits of ALPA membership.
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#5 Post by sanjet » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:20 am

rudder wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:53 am
ALPA has been in the business of representing pilots for many, many decades. There is not much that ALPA has not seen and does not know about pilot response to high stress events and legal consequences. Drawing on that expertise is one of the benefits of ALPA membership.
Agree, one of the great things about a large union like ALPA. Even when you follow all SOP’ and you did nothing wrong, it’s best to always have experienced legal counsel next to you during these times.
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#6 Post by skypirate88 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:51 am

Perhaps the language is soft, but you are reading into it to much. It is common ALPA practice to isolate the crew after any incident.

The crew (front and back end) in this case were likely afforded the time to calm down and debrief before needing to talk to the company or lawyers.
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#7 Post by Marinth » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:24 pm

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:34 am
Now, I think some/many/none/most on this board realize that I wasn't a fan of ALPA intruding into the relationship between myself and my employer. Que sera, sera. That said, I don't think it unfair to be critical of ALPA for allowing the forces social justice to intrude upon their ranks. I understand what ALPA was trying to say about their actions after the recent evacuation in YYZ, an evacuation by a crew who, it would seem from all reports, together acted professionally in discharging their duties. ALPA meant to say something like this:
"...after arriving upon scene to assist the ALPA pilots involved in the incident, a room was provided near the airport in which the pilots could be sequestered away from the public, press, and the company."
Instead, what their press release writer, someone likely recently educated (post 2005 ish) in the social sciences (women studies, intersectionality, patriarchy, white oppression et al) at a (small 'l') liberal dominated college, was a Hilary supporter, and wrote was:
The Crew was taken to a safe place and once their personal needs were looked after, the ALPA representation department prepped them for the TSB investigation (standard procedure for any incident of this nature).
Did ALPA provide a therapy dog for use in this safe place? Soft music?

Kudos to ALPA for doing the job they get (or will get) paid for. I have no issues with that. Just keep the molly-coddling language away from pilots. Do police/fire fighters/soldiers and other first responders get "safe places" after traumatic incidents, or are all professions now made up of snowflakes? My good friend Rod tells me that that the Constabulary in NF provides an after-action interview the day after an incident, and it would seem all (according to Hollywood depictions) police forces etc provide counsellors to their employees on an as needed basis following traumatic episodes. It's what companies do these days.

Perhaps the checklist of the future will have a "How are you feeling" item.
Whoa... I think you might be over-reacting a bit here.
A couple of points, "the crew was taken to a safe place" more than likely refers to a place away from the fire and incident, not the "safe spaces" they have on college campus' that I imagine you have a helmet fire over every time you hear about one on rebel news.

Second, police, fire fighters, and soldiers better have a safe place to go after traumatic incidents. If they don't they are being horribly failed. Suicide is the number one cause of death of soldiers, so if you want to "support the troops", that's the best way to do it. If you don't believe they should have "safe places" because it upsets what your idea of a "real man" is, please, go ahead and fist yourself.
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#8 Post by Rockie » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:47 pm

Newcommercialpilot

Sometime before you become an old commercial pilot you may need one or more of the many services your union provides you in the course of their “interference”. Feel free to reflect on your current attitude and ignorance of what unions do when that day comes.
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Last edited by Rockie on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#9 Post by Rockie » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:48 pm

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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#10 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:01 pm

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:34 am
...Do police/fire fighters/soldiers and other first responders get "safe places" after traumatic incidents...
Yes, yes they do.

And go try to barge in on a cop or EMS person who's decompressing in the back of the rig or at the station and see how it turns out for you, spoiler alert, trying to crowd a first responder who is trying to get some space isn't looked well upon and may result in cuffs, a face full of mace (for resisting), etc, and not single person will feel bad for you.


I don't like the touchy feely stuff ether, but this ain't that.
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Re: ALPA Now Provides Safe Places

#11 Post by JBI » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:34 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:34 am

Did ALPA provide a therapy dog for use in this safe place? Soft music?
NCP, I continue to enjoy our debates and discussions on various matters but I do wonder(worry?) you're now just searching for things to get upset about. Again, perhaps you should start watching the new X-Files... the truth is out there.

As someone who has been involved with aircraft accident investigations and lawsuits, made submissions directly to the TSB on behalf of operators, attended specific US NTSB post accident investigation training and spoken with numerous pilots who have been involved in accidents/incidents, yes, the best case scenario is that pilots will be taken to a secure location. The proceedings that pilots have to go through after an accident, be it TSB, legal, insurance, medical and psychological is not anything I would wish on my greatest enemies or even internet trolls like complexintentions.

While aircrew are covered under their employers' liability insurance, there are definitely times where there may be a conflict of interest between the best interests of the pilots and the best interests of the operator. While legally, it doesn't happen all that often, I can say for certainty that I would not trust our mutual employer to put the best interests of their pilots above or even equal to the best interests of the company and this is coming from someone who assisted, in a small part, with the WJPA before ALPA came on board.

Accidents, thankfully less and less these days, are something that happens in aviation. It IS traumatic. I've seen some of the toughest manliest macho pilots get really screwed up psychologically after an accident.

Two of our coworkers were involved in an aircraft accident. From everything I can tell, it was handled extremely well and as per the training. For the foreseeable future they will be off work and meeting with the TSB, the company, lawyers and yes, counselors. I hope nothing for the best for their return to work and that the next chapter in this situation is pretty painless for them. Make no mistake, this is an moment that they will play over and over in their head for the rest of their life. Thankfully no one was seriously injured.

And you're getting worked up on the wording of a press release....
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