North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

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ZBBYLW
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by ZBBYLW »

At both Rouge and Mainline its 12 years with the company.

Not sure how FOs are at WS and Sunwing etc but at Rouge on the airbus I made 140k at year 5 for 2017. That's with some OT but still a pretty good work life balance. Some FOs can make more than that if you're willing to work more days.
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ant_321
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by ant_321 »

Noo wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:05 pm
ant_321 wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:57 pm
Eric Janson wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:42 am Since Top Captain pay is listed perhaps it would also make sense to state how many years it takes to get to this level.

Provides a bit more perspective than just throwing out numbers imho.
Very valid point. Sunwing takes 12 years.
Is your time as an FO counted towards that?
No.
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av8ts
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by av8ts »

I think the American pilots are underpaid. You would have to pay me a hell of a lot more than that to spend that much time around Americans
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altiplano
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by altiplano »

av8ts wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:53 am I think the American pilots are underpaid. You would have to pay me a hell of a lot more than that to spend that much time around Americans
I like Americans. There are a lot of great corners in that country, and some not so great... Kind of like most countries. I might disagree with some of their national issues and foreign policy, but I usually appreciate them individually.

I could sure find a nice corner to live in, with some people I could get along just fine with, for a 50% higher wage, 2/3 the tax, and 15% lower cost of living...
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altiplano
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by altiplano »

Air North pay added.

Still looking for First Air, Flair, and Enerjet.
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bringerofrain
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by bringerofrain »

Spirt pilots just got a 43% average raise:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spir ... SKBN1FK3AE

How can Canadian wages be going completely the opposite way?
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altiplano
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by altiplano »

Looks like they still have to get the vote done...

Reviewing the Spirit section on airlinepilotforum.com it looks like maybe not a done deal? Some definite opponents.

Nonetheless to get an idea of what they have on the table...

Current est. 320 CA rate at Spirit

$232 - (185USD)

Article says average 43% pay increase. If we call it 40% for senior Captain's to get a ballpark... That's slightly more than Alaska, slightly less than American and about on par with Southwest...

$324 - (259USD)

Their slogan through this negotiation has been:

"Discount Flights, NOT Discount Pilots"

Yet here they are, already making about 8% more than the highest paid Canadian pilots on the same/similar type, at pretty much the ULCCest of all the ULCCs in the US. And still about to take 40+% gains...

Who is the "Discount Pilot"?

Not the lowest paid 737/320 pilot in the US...

The discount pilot is the highest paid pilots in Canada.

We all are the discount pilots.
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monkey
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by monkey »

I think its pretty clear the pilot groups in Canada need to do a much better job of working together / start pushing for more common goals so we stop under cutting each other. Nationally if we had our act together we wouldn't be where we are today. It will only keep getting worse unless we can find a way to get all on the same page.
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rudder
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by rudder »

I have spreadsheets of US pay rates and retirement but they do not draw the full picture.

Go to airline pilot central forums and they are posting YE2017 pay. 3rd year FO’s making USD$200k.
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'97 Tercel
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by '97 Tercel »

So who are the pilots represented by in each of the US carriers listed earlier? Mostly ALPA down there?

I just can't believe the pay difference south of the border. WTF
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mijbil
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by mijbil »

monkey wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:16 pm I think its pretty clear the pilot groups in Canada need to do a much better job of working together / start pushing for more common goals so we stop under cutting each other. Nationally if we had our act together we wouldn't be where we are today. It will only keep getting worse unless we can find a way to get all on the same page.
Agree completely. I'm currently an FO on the 37 at a smaller carrier. I can't go down the Swoop trail but am told via the jungle telegraph that there will be other FO's - who have sat right side far longer than I - who might go for it. I can't blame them in a way since the current company is status quo and likely will be for a long time. WS mainline is no longer the happiest place on earth (after Disneyland) and for some AC is either a bridge too far (moving to TO on $50K!!) or a bridge they haven't extended (PFO). I get why they would go for it.
Personally, I plan to vote with my feet - westward - so far in fact that it's east. Swoop? GreGG can pound hot beach sand up where he thinks the sun shines from. For the left seaters who run the show in the various groups/MEC's etc - get some more baksheesh to the FO's or the exodus will continue is my expectation.
Is the grass greener? In terms of $$ yes. Lifestyle - likely no, so some will stay
If my sacrifices to the chief god of aviation - COFFEE - pay off, and pilot is included under NAFTA - then CIAO - the commute will be shorter.

And for those who might think to label me as an entitled millennial who didn't "Pay dues up north" and wants a left seat in 18 months- I did pay but in a different way. I paid with my soul - 20 years in the Air Force.

Up yer kilt!
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infiniteregulus
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by infiniteregulus »

I wouldn't necessarily compare rates directly with the US carriers as the economic landscapes are different. There's a reason there's an exchange rate hahaha. That being said, the trend should be equivalent in that raises are in order for Canadian pilot just as they were for Americans. Dollar for dollar though, I can understand the lower pay in Canada. It's a smaller country in population and a larger country in area, so low density. That goes for any country in the world really. One should almost compare pilot pay compared to average population densities. In the end though, yes, raises are an absolute necessity at this point in time.
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eyebrow737
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by eyebrow737 »

infiniteregulus wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:43 pm . Dollar for dollar though, I can understand the lower pay in Canada. It's a smaller country in population and a larger country in area, so low density. That goes for any country in the world really..
By that yard stick Canadians should always be paid a lot less than anywhere in the civilized world.

Canada:3.67 persons per sq km
Australia 3.18 persons per sq km

(2012 Numbers)
Average First Year Captain
737 Qantas: $225,041
320 JetStar: $179,816

FO
737 Qantas: $144,027
320 JetStar: $116,880

Lowcost Jetstar 320 FO earns more than first year 767 captain at Cargojet and far more than a first year swoop captain flying same class

Not to talk much about AC FO.

Too many Canadians for too long have made excuses for pay, either saying what you have said or this is the price we have for living in such a wonderful country.

The fact remains. There are no excuses.

It is time to get MAD.

(If you want to cringe more take a look at Aussie pay. Note first page is 2011. Pay has steadily increased since)

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-ze ... on-13.html
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Dockjock
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by Dockjock »

Why get torqued about FO pay when you can be a captain at AC within 3 yrs. The “eat our young” line is dead and buried. Leave that for a downturn, when people are stuck in those positions. Today, it just isn’t the case. I wouldn’t vote to put more money on new hires, who are coming in with less and less experience, a trend that looks like will continue to plumb new depths in the next decade. FO pay should be linked to captain pay, and captain pay should be going up. So you’re covered. Enough with the focus on FO’s, jeezus. Peek around the corner, as somebody above said.
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'97 Tercel
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by '97 Tercel »

Yes, who cares what FO's make because they will upgrade to captain one day anyway.


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DutyFree
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by DutyFree »

Many variables overall, however it's impossible to deny that Canadian pilots are some of the lowest paid of all G7 nations possibly even g20.
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express315
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by express315 »

Flair $144 at year nine, top.
Pension -employee 4%/company 4%, changes to both 5% after year 15.
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dumbbell daddy
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by dumbbell daddy »

This thread is so depressing.......
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altiplano
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by altiplano »

The first post of the thread has been updated with all the pay rates so far...

First Air and Enerjet still to fill in.
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bezerker
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Re: North America 737/320 Pay Round-up

Post by bezerker »

All union contracts are available online.

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca

First Air has a somewhat complicated pay scale. My calculations show 2018 737 Captain top pay to be about $179k.

But I could be way off.
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