Best resource on airliner systems

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fliter
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Best resource on airliner systems

Post by fliter »

I am one of the current crop of young pilots lucky enough to be catapulted into the 705 world after a couple of years in a 172. Which is great, but at the same time kind of a big jump. I want to show up for ground school as prepared as possible, and I realize my knowledge of aircraft systems is horribly lacking. I studied what I had to study to pass SAMRA/SARON, but that wasn't much. I tried to read the aircraft manuals, but they're too technical for someone who doesn't have a good basic understanding of underlying principles of systems operations. Is there a resource for someone in my position, looking to get a general idea of how modern turboprops work? Thanks!
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flyer 1492
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by flyer 1492 »

Congrats on the catapult. LOL. Don't worry about system knowledge. If you are going to places like Encore or Sky Regional then you already know what type of aircraft you will be flying. Georgian has two types, while Jazz has three.

Cheers,

Flyer
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ahramin
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by ahramin »

What aircraft will you be on?
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ActionAxson
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by ActionAxson »

I just finished a book "Turbine Pilot Flight Manual" by Gregory N Brown. I think it does a good job of giving you a basic foundation of knowledge. Quick read and good info. E-book version is cheap too.
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Boreas
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by Boreas »

fliter wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:56 pm I am one of the current crop of young pilots lucky enough to be catapulted into the 705 world after a couple of years in a 172. Which is great, but at the same time kind of a big jump. I want to show up for ground school as prepared as possible, and I realize my knowledge of aircraft systems is horribly lacking. I studied what I had to study to pass SAMRA/SARON, but that wasn't much. I tried to read the aircraft manuals, but they're too technical for someone who doesn't have a good basic understanding of underlying principles of systems operations. Is there a resource for someone in my position, looking to get a general idea of how modern turboprops work? Thanks!
Boy, I sure hope this guy is trolling...
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AnotherUselessPilot
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by AnotherUselessPilot »

Don't worry. In most other countries you go from 172 to 737.
Put in 60% or greater effort into ground school and you will pass no problem.
They don't intend to pay for your training just to wash you out.
Just the other day I was speaking to a nice old AC captain who did not graduate from high school.
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Outlaw58
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by Outlaw58 »

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Last edited by Outlaw58 on Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fliter
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by fliter »

ahramin wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:54 pm What aircraft will you be on?
Q400.
Boreas wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:16 pm
fliter wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:56 pm I am one of the current crop of young pilots lucky enough to be catapulted into the 705 world after a couple of years in a 172. Which is great, but at the same time kind of a big jump. I want to show up for ground school as prepared as possible, and I realize my knowledge of aircraft systems is horribly lacking. I studied what I had to study to pass SAMRA/SARON, but that wasn't much. I tried to read the aircraft manuals, but they're too technical for someone who doesn't have a good basic understanding of underlying principles of systems operations. Is there a resource for someone in my position, looking to get a general idea of how modern turboprops work? Thanks!
Boy, I sure hope this guy is trolling...
Well, that's not a nice thing to say. I didn't say I had no understanding of how anything in aviation works, I think I have a good understanding of the types I flew, and I did try to look ahead and read what I could on bigger planes - but how would someone transitioning from a light trainer to an airline machine have the background to understand the technical literature? If you walked into a flight school knowing nothing about flying, and were just handed a 172 POH, without knowing what an aileron is, or what trim is for, I don't think you'd do very well. It's not a good place to start. No, you read your FTM and your FTGU, and obtain a general understanding of the systems and ops first, then use the POH to see what the specifics are for your aircraft. So I'm wondering if there is an equivalent of the FTGU equivalent for the more complex aircraft. I know that I'm missing fundamentals of flying large complex turboprops, and I know AFMs are not the places where these fundamentals are systematically laid out.
ActionAxson wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:13 pm I just finished a book "Turbine Pilot Flight Manual" by Gregory N Brown. I think it does a good job of giving you a basic foundation of knowledge. Quick read and good info. E-book version is cheap too.
Thanks! I'll check it out.
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tbaylx
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by tbaylx »

fliter wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:06 pm
ahramin wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:54 pm What aircraft will you be on?
Q400.
Boreas wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:16 pm
fliter wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:56 pm I am one of the current crop of young pilots lucky enough to be catapulted into the 705 world after a couple of years in a 172. Which is great, but at the same time kind of a big jump. I want to show up for ground school as prepared as possible, and I realize my knowledge of aircraft systems is horribly lacking. I studied what I had to study to pass SAMRA/SARON, but that wasn't much. I tried to read the aircraft manuals, but they're too technical for someone who doesn't have a good basic understanding of underlying principles of systems operations. Is there a resource for someone in my position, looking to get a general idea of how modern turboprops work? Thanks!
Boy, I sure hope this guy is trolling...
Well, that's not a nice thing to say. I didn't say I had no understanding of how anything in aviation works, I think I have a good understanding of the types I flew, and I did try to look ahead and read what I could on bigger planes - but how would someone transitioning from a light trainer to an airline machine have the background to understand the technical literature? If you walked into a flight school knowing nothing about flying, and were just handed a 172 POH, without knowing what an aileron is, or what trim is for, I don't think you'd do very well. It's not a good place to start. No, you read your FTM and your FTGU, and obtain a general understanding of the systems and ops first, then use the POH to see what the specifics are for your aircraft. So I'm wondering if there is an equivalent of the FTGU equivalent for the more complex aircraft. I know that I'm missing fundamentals of flying large complex turboprops, and I know AFMs are not the places where these fundamentals are systematically laid out.
ActionAxson wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:13 pm I just finished a book "Turbine Pilot Flight Manual" by Gregory N Brown. I think it does a good job of giving you a basic foundation of knowledge. Quick read and good info. E-book version is cheap too.
Thanks! I'll check it out.
Ignore the mouth breathers on the forum. If a guy comes on here looking to learn something and asks for advice the self proclaimed expert pilots come out of the woodwork to tell them how inferior they are so they can feel better about themselves.
Carry on, and try and filter out the posts like that. There are some good ones amid all the garbage.
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mbav8r
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by mbav8r »

Fliter,
There are plenty of pilots joining Jazz with just piston time, some with the same as you, two years in the 172, they all seem to get through. The program is designed to teach you the systems through a series of computer based training modules and then a session in the IPT(integrated procedures trainer) backing up the systems you covered the day before in CBT.
You will start with a two day classroom instruction on the basics of the systems as well as programming and using the FMS, 9 IPTs and about 40 hours of CBT modules, after that you’ll get 9 sessions in the simulator. Some less experienced pilots do end up requiring some extra training in each phase of the training but the majority get through.
Good on you for realizing your limitations and seeking to do something about but I think you’re worried about nothing, that being said it will take a good deal of effort on your part, so take it seriously and you’ll be fine.
If you’re coming to Jazz, welcome if it’s not Jazz, I’m sorry I can’t speak to other training programs but hopefully they recognize guys in you’re position need a robust program.
Good luck
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fliter
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by fliter »

tbaylx wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:27 pm Ignore the mouth breathers on the forum. If a guy comes on here looking to learn something and asks for advice the self proclaimed expert pilots come out of the woodwork to tell them how inferior they are so they can feel better about themselves.
Carry on, and try and filter out the posts like that. There are some good ones amid all the garbage.
mbav8r wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:14 pm Fliter,
There are plenty of pilots joining Jazz with just piston time, some with the same as you, two years in the 172, they all seem to get through. The program is designed to teach you the systems through a series of computer based training modules and then a session in the IPT(integrated procedures trainer) backing up the systems you covered the day before in CBT.
You will start with a two day classroom instruction on the basics of the systems as well as programming and using the FMS, 9 IPTs and about 40 hours of CBT modules, after that you’ll get 9 sessions in the simulator. Some less experienced pilots do end up requiring some extra training in each phase of the training but the majority get through.
Good on you for realizing your limitations and seeking to do something about but I think you’re worried about nothing, that being said it will take a good deal of effort on your part, so take it seriously and you’ll be fine.
If you’re coming to Jazz, welcome if it’s not Jazz, I’m sorry I can’t speak to other training programs but hopefully they recognize guys in you’re position need a robust program.
Good luck
Thanks, mbav8r and tbaylx. It's not Jazz, but another well-respected operator, so hopefully their training program is pretty good too. I know several people starting in the same ground school, and we're all in a similar situation, but I'm still near the low end of both flight time and variety of experience, so I want to do what I can to compensate for the disadvantage.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by Eric Janson »

fliter wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:56 pm I am one of the current crop of young pilots lucky enough to be catapulted into the 705 world after a couple of years in a 172. Which is great, but at the same time kind of a big jump. I want to show up for ground school as prepared as possible, and I realize my knowledge of aircraft systems is horribly lacking. I studied what I had to study to pass SAMRA/SARON, but that wasn't much. I tried to read the aircraft manuals, but they're too technical for someone who doesn't have a good basic understanding of underlying principles of systems operations. Is there a resource for someone in my position, looking to get a general idea of how modern turboprops work? Thanks!
Sad to see some of the reactions to your post.

I'm not sure what your current level of knowledge is but I'm sure you can find books/videos/courses on Maths/Physics/Hydraulics and Electrics to suit your needs by searching.

Another option is to talk to a friendly A&P/Avionics Engineer and ask some questions.

(TIP:- If an aircraft you're flying is in a check - try to visit to see what all the components look like. Quite an eye opener).


Pay attention anytime an Engineer is fixing something (especially computer resets).

All the best.
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Last edited by Eric Janson on Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
Pacqing
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by Pacqing »

Eric are you an American pilot? In Canada its not A&P or avionics engineer. Here in the true north the maintenance people are AME's with M1,M2 .A structure is S.
But the idea to go into the hangar when a machine is in for maintenance and ask to be shown round is a great idea. But be careful if the AME's are busy as they wont have time to explain the systems. And be sure to get an endorsed AME as these days its usually 1 or 2 experienced people to 8 or 10 apprentices.
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fliter
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by fliter »

ActionAxson wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:13 pm I just finished a book "Turbine Pilot Flight Manual" by Gregory N Brown. I think it does a good job of giving you a basic foundation of knowledge. Quick read and good info. E-book version is cheap too.
Hey, just wanted to say I bought the book and just started reading it. So far it looks like exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks!!
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justwork
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by justwork »

You'll be flying a Q400, nice plane and not overly complex. www.smartcockpit.com has some useful manuals, but they're all the same manuals your airline will provide. For me technical information has always been nice to know. I like to have a basic understanding of the systems. I spend more time focusing on SOP's, and emergency checklists. Know the systems well enough so you understand whats going on when you're doing an emergency or abnormal checklist. I find a lot of pilots don't bother to open the QRH until they need it, which I have seen cause some problems especially in somewhat stressful situations.

Good luck.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by Eric Janson »

Pacqing wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:25 am Eric are you an American pilot? In Canada its not A&P or avionics engineer. Here in the true north the maintenance people are AME's with M1,M2 .A structure is S.
I fly in EASA land. Thanks for the clarification - not too familiar with Canadian regulations.
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mixturerich
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Re: Best resource on airliner systems

Post by mixturerich »

Once you’re in ground school you’ll have your work cut out for you. But honestly, the Advanced Pilot’s Flight Manual is what you’re looking for. It’s a continuation of what you’ve been learning but goes deeper into systems and concepts and will make you a better, more knowledgeable pilot. It won’t be biting off more than you can chew, either. It’s just right for the level you’re at, in my opinion.
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