Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

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Anticyclone
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Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#1 Post by Anticyclone » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:47 pm

What the hell went horribly wrong to serve a great Canadian marvel to europe on a silver platter...my stomach is upside down. :-x
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#2 Post by FL007 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:49 pm

Anticyclone wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:47 pm
What the hell went horribly wrong to serve a great Canadian marvel to europe on a silver platter...my stomach is upside down. :-x
Boeing.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#3 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:21 pm

Will BBD reap any benefit going forward from this or have they lost control of the program?

I heard Jetblue just put in an order for 60 Airbus 220s.....

:smt010

S.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#4 Post by sanjet » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:29 pm

So jetblue will be replacing the E-jets with these birds. Boeing's partnership with Embraer is starting well!!!
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#5 Post by YYZSaabGuy » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:25 am

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:21 pm
I heard Jetblue just put in an order for 60 Airbus 220s.....
:smt010
S.
Confirmed: 60 firm orders, plus an option for up to 60 more -300s and/or -100s. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... lion-order.

JetBlue Orders 60 Planes in $5.4 Billion Airbus-Bombardier Deal
By Mary Schlangenstein and Christopher Jasper
July 10, 2018, 4:15 PM EDT Updated on July 10, 2018, 5:18 PM EDT

Airways Corp. is placing a big bet on Airbus SE’s newest jetliner.

The carrier is ordering 60 of Airbus’s A220 jets, the freshly rechristened plane formerly known as Bombardier Inc.’s C Series. Tuesday’s sale, valued at $5.4 billion based on list prices before customary discounts, is the first since Airbus took control of the aircraft program last week from Bombardier.

The deal caps JetBlue’s long search for a more efficient small jet to replace its Embraer SA E190 aircraft, which it relies on to ferry passengers on such routes as Boston to New York. The order also provides an immediate impetus for the A220, suggesting that Airbus will be able to entice more airlines to buy the plane.

“This fleet transaction is a game changer for JetBlue’s economics as we progress through the next decade,” the airline’s chief financial officer, Steve Priest, said in an interview.

‘Undoubted Advantage’
For Airbus, quickly racking up orders for the A220 is a crucial challenge as the Toulouse, France-based company seeks to lower costs. To make the aircraft viable, the planemaker says it needs a “double-digit” reduction in costs in its supply chain and is in the process of negotiating with suppliers.

For JetBlue, the transaction will yield an all-Airbus fleet, which Priest called an “undoubted advantage” because it will reduce costs for items such as parts and training. When all 60 planes are in its fleet, they will reduce the carrier’s annual cost for each seat mile flown by five percentage points and add about three percentage points to its pretax profit margin, Priest said.

Deliveries of the A220-300 planes are scheduled to begin in 2020, JetBlue said in a statement. The New York-based carrier also took an option to buy as many as 60 more starting in 2025.

The airline said it hasn’t yet decided how many seats it will put on the A220-300, which can hold as many as 160 passengers. It also has the right to convert some orders to the smaller A220-100 plane, which can take as many as 135 seats. The Embraer E190s being replaced carry 100.

Cross-Country Potential
The A220-300 burns 40 percent less fuel per seat than the E190s, has lower emissions and isn’t as loud, JetBlue said. The aircraft also is capable of flying cross-country, something JetBlue would eventually consider using it for, said Marty St. George, the carrier’s executive vice president.

The economics of the aircraft, the flexibility to alter the order and the A220-300’s range and fit into JetBlue’s network were the key factors in selecting Airbus over Embraer, Priest said.

While JetBlue first talked with Montreal-based Bombardier as far back as 2015, it began a formal fleet review about 15 months ago. In a hotly contested battle, the carrier considered replacing its 60 E190 planes with Embraer’s upgraded E190-E2 model or the larger E195-E2. JetBlue hasn’t arranged financing for the aircraft yet, but expects to use a combination of cash and debt, Priest said. The planes will use Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan engines.

JetBlue’s E190s -- 30 owned by the airline and 30 leased -- will be phased out gradually through 2025. The carrier also made changes to its existing Airbus order book, including the conversion of an existing deal for 25 A320neo aircraft to larger A321neos. JetBlue will move two A321 deliveries to 2020 from 2021 and defer seven to 2024 that originally were to arrive in the 2021-2022 period, JetBlue said.

Airbus-Boeing Clash
Airbus has committed to extending its factory in Mobile, Alabama, to build the aircraft. That would add to Bombardier’s existing plant in Mirabel, Quebec.

Airbus is taking control of the C Series after the jet struggled for buyers amid concerns about its feasibility, resulting in a cash injection from Quebec and a loan from Canada’s federal government. That sparked a trade complaint last year from Boeing Co., prompting the U.S. to impose duties that threatened to further subdue sales. The tariffs were later blocked, but not before Airbus had agreed to acquire control of the program.

The European planemaker scrapped the C Series’s 14-year-old branding and renamed it the A220 as it slots in below the A320 family of narrow-body jets. Bombardier, which invested more than $6 billion in the program, will retain a minority holding.

Boeing announced a preliminary agreement last week to form a $4.75 billion venture with Embraer that will control the Brazilian manufacturer’s commercial airplane and services business.

— With assistance by Benjamin D Katz, and Frederic Tomesco
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#6 Post by Victory » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:28 am

Is Airbus changing the avionics at all? Putting in their nanny computers etc?
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#7 Post by lownslow » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:34 am

Victory wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:28 am
Is Airbus changing the avionics at all? Putting in their nanny computers etc?
Almost certainly not, I assume they want to get delivering these ASAP.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#8 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:36 am

BBD is at what...a 31% stake now in the program - so it should see ~1.7B in the deal? Looks like IQ got their 1B back. I guess that is better than zero.

At the very least EMB got the boot - and it'll be nice to see something invented in Canada be all over the U.S east coast. I think ATCMEMES posted on it's (the A220s) sexiness yesterday.

Is it me, or do Canadians on the global economic scale give in really really easily when any pressure is applied? Things like the ETR in Ontario, we tend to pay for someone else to profit - very risk adverse I'd guess, but not at all smart in the long term.

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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#9 Post by Anticyclone » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:11 am

Yes boeing bullshit did damage the C series but that's only the top of the iceberg, what really happened way before, why couldn't Bombardier sell it ? does their marketing dep suck that bad :?: :!:
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#10 Post by TT1900 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:46 am

Anticyclone wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:47 pm
What the hell went horribly wrong to serve a great Canadian marvel to europe on a silver platter...my stomach is upside down. :-x
Bombardier couldn't get the job done even before the Boeing pressure. Look at the development delays and lack of sales prior to Airbus. Since Airbus became involved last October total orders have increased 52%. It may well be the best product in the world but with BBD mismanagement at the helm it was doomed to fail.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#11 Post by Gino Under » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:47 am

The jet Blue order was in the works before Airbus got involved. They've been looking at C series for a long, long time and this purchase wasn't an "OH, Airbus are in charge now. Why don't we buy some, what are they called, A220s?"
This time last year "an undisclosed European carrier" ordered 60, as well. That carrier might be named next week at Farnborough. The truth is, Bombardier sales were pushing a rope uphill from day one. Problems with the fan blades on the PW1524 delayed deliveries, with preference of engine deliveries going to Airbus and Boeing, which didn't help. But let's not slag P&W. They don't build airplanes.

Spirit have also been kicking the tires for awhile. I suspect they'll come to the same conclusion as Jet Blue. Let's pay attention next week to see if any mention of Spirit is made at Farnborough.
Oh, and before I forget, some bad news, Gulf Air have said their C Series order (for 10) has been cancelled.

For those slagging Bombardier management, and how incompetent they are at their jobs, my 99 cent BBD-B shares just hit $5.45 and continues to climb. The Motley Fool who told us a year ago this was a company going out of business, due to bad management, engine delays and cash problems. Today, they are all laurels, sweetness and light. Recommending BBD as a BUY with potential to hit $10.00 a share. Now that's quite a turnaround for poor management as you're ever likely to see.

It's a good thing most of us don't get our investment advice on Avcanada.

Gino Under
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#12 Post by Ki-ll » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:17 pm

Didn’t US apply 220% duty on the deliveries?
That makes it pretty funny.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#13 Post by govida » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:31 pm

Congratulations Gino!!

I'm on the same boat, although I did manage to scoop them below .90 cents a share. I sure regret not buying more. I know I know, hindsight and all.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#14 Post by Rockie » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:54 pm

Renaming it to an Airbus benefits the jets and the people who built it with a percieved permanence in the market. Everybody's going to know who built it regardless of what it's called so this is a good thing IMHO.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#15 Post by HansDietrich » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:20 pm

Why is the A220 better than Bombardier? It's simple. Airbus is a company with deep pockets and resources. Bombardier was on thin ice and people were nervous. This move assures customers that the A220 will be supported for years to come.

As a personal touch, I think the executives at Bombardier are useless _________________.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#16 Post by Gino Under » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:09 pm

..you mean useless, like some opinions expressed on Avcanada?

Here’s mine...
The financial recovery of Bombardier is due in a large part to precisely those executives you’re trying to denigrate, but we all have our own opinions. Some of which are based on fact.
I think Airbus management can fucup just as easily as Boeing or Bombardier. Airbus management spent billions on the A380 and military A400 Transport. Both programs are going nowhere. Only one airline has contributed to any measure of A380 success and amongst European military, only Spain stepped up. Boeing? How about the military 767 tanker? Google that financial disaster. Their decision to partner with Embraer is preposterous. The E jets are scoped out. Scope clauses aren’t going away. Scopes clauses will impede the E2s success.
Boeing and Airbus were bested by Bombardier when the C series launch was confirmed. The response by A and B is even more evident today that Neo and Max are nothing more than product facelifts. Airbus got it, Boeing didn’t.
That’s why Airbus took the C series for a buck. Bombardier’s fault? No. The Canadian taxpayers who whine about corporate welfare got their wish.

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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#17 Post by rookiepilot » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:40 pm

Gino Under wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:47 am

For those slagging Bombardier management, and how incompetent they are at their jobs, my 99 cent BBD-B shares just hit $5.45 and continues to climb. The Motley Fool who told us a year ago this was a company going out of business, due to bad management, engine delays and cash problems. Today, they are all laurels, sweetness and light. Recommending BBD as a BUY with potential to hit $10.00 a share. Now that's quite a turnaround for poor management as you're ever likely to see.

It's a good thing most of us don't get our investment advice on Avcanada.

Gino Under
Hey who knows when it's a Quebec government pet. I guess anything can happen.

Check out a Boeing chart over the same timeframe, too. Not too bad.

I stand by my view BBD management is substandard, and without Continued, repeated bailouts, the company is a certainty for future bankruptcy. But governments will never allow it, that is obvious. They say a bull market makes wise men out of fools. Many weak companies will blow up in the next recession. BBD won't because Quebec will never allow that.

9 years in into a very strong worldwide economic recovery --- BBD isn't even breaking even --even on a cash flow basis!
What happens during the next recession?

https://business.financialpost.com/tran ... ng-started

BTW BBD just apologized to the TTC for their own incompetence.
https://business.financialpost.com/tran ... before-ttc

I would never ever put a single dime in BBD, just on principle alone.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#18 Post by govida » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:57 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:40 pm


It's amazing how many claim here to have loaded up on BBD below a buck. Just amazing.


[/quote]

Here you go rookie, since you seem to think everyone here is full of shit. Enjoy!

https://imgur.com/a/5QgwWfR

Image
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#19 Post by govida » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:09 am

What happened rookie?

Why did you edit your post, and get rid of your incredulous comment? Why is it so hard for you to believe some people acted upon the opportunity back then?
The Boeing chart sure does look good, but I've made double with BBD, than I would have with BA over the same time period. Whats your point?

Good thing I quoted your comment for everyone to see. I thought you'd be the type to stick by your word, or gracefully admit a mistake. Not sneakily edit your post and delete part of your comment, hoping no one notices.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#20 Post by rookiepilot » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:14 am

govida wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:09 am
What happened rookie?

Why did you edit your post, and get rid of your incredulous comment? Why is it so hard for you to believe some people acted upon the opportunity back then?
The Boeing chart sure does look good, but I've made double with BBD, than I would have with BA over the same time period. Whats your point?

Good thing I quoted your comment for everyone to see. I thought you'd be the type to stick by your word, or gracefully admit a mistake. Not sneakily edit your post and delete part of your comment, hoping no one notices.
Good for you on your success with BBD. To me it was investing in a lottery ticket back then but backed by the government. That is not a wise strategy in my view, but fill your boots.

I don't like what is called "victory lapping" True professionals simply don't do it. Period.

That's just me. Anyone can claim anything in hindsight. I give that stuff zero respect and it adds no value to any discussion.

I deleted that line as don't wish to imply the whole board is doing that.

It would be better for the country in the long run if Bombardier was allowed to go bankrupt, and be forced to rebuild under sound principles. Then perhaps they would attract real investment.

Quote that comment even though you won't understand it.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#21 Post by govida » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:31 am

What exactly does the board have to do with you not believe people bought into BBD at its lowest. I'm new here so there must be something I'm missing.

>That's just me. Anyone can claim anything in hindsight. I give that stuff zero respect and it adds no value to any discussion.

The only thing I claimed in hindsight was my wish to have purchased more. The only reason I didn't, was because I didn't have anymore cash back then.

What do true professionals do rookie? What do the professionals at managed funds that can't beat the market do?

http://fortune.com/2017/04/13/stock-ind ... ual-funds/

What do these hedge fund professionals that can't seem to beat monkeys do?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-h ... 2015-06-25
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#22 Post by rookiepilot » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:44 am

govida wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:31 am

What do true professionals do rookie? What do the professionals at managed funds that can't beat the market do?

http://fortune.com/2017/04/13/stock-ind ... ual-funds/

What do these hedge fund professionals that can't seem to beat monkeys do?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-h ... 2015-06-25
They sure don't brag like kids in junior high school, that's for sure.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#23 Post by govida » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:48 am

Now you're just taking a piss rookie.
They sure don't brag like kids in junior high school, that's for sure.
You're right, they're worse. You think a pilots ego is bad? Try meeting one of those guys.

Unfortunately, you strike me as the type that would be pissing on someone for having the good fortune of winning the lottery.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#24 Post by govida » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:29 am

There goes rookie, changing his post once again.
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Re: Airbus to rename the C Series...disgusting.

#25 Post by Gino Under » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:51 pm

I'm one of those classless and unprofessional sh*theads so let me just say this. Buy Low Sell High. Who knew???? For once in my life I stuck to that and now I'm grateful to BBD management for turning the company around, and turn it around they have, whether rookiepilot cares to admit that or not. I don't care who threw them a bone. I'm taking my shameless unprofessional victory lap and hanging on to my shares (dollar cost averaged, not many bought at .99 cents).
I'm sure glad I'm not one of Rookiepilot's accounts. I wouldn't be holding a penny's worth of BBD stock right now if I'd listened to him. At the very least, he'd have had me buy high and sell low.
Woo hoo!!! Happy, happy, joy, joy

:supz: :partyman: :supz:

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