US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by HansDietrich »

C.W.E. wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:34 pm
So you want to spend $50,000 in legal fees just to enter the worst country on earth?
Obviously you have not travelled much if you think the USA is the worst country on earth.

Or you are just saying that for effect.

I am amazed at the amount of dislike for America there is in the pilot group, however regardless of your personal feelings they can and will deny you entry if they want to.

And if you are flying for an airline that may affect your employment status.

One of the best flying jobs I ever had was flying an American registered airplane for a private company under part 91, it was light years ahead of flying anything registered under Canadian regstration.

And two of my pilots licenses were done in the U.S. one in Detroit and one in Oregon.

Why are you amazed? I have very little desire to go there. Every time I cross that border I feel like a "criminal" or at the very best an "unwanted alien". That's how the Border Service makes me feel. It gives me zero pleasure to visit, work or interact with anyone from there. They are self centered, egotistical show offs. I don't need that. The only reason I ever go there is for work. It's a sad affair when you think what the US once was and what it has become. I go there because I have to not because I want to.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by pianokeys »

C.W.E. wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:34 pm
So you want to spend $50,000 in legal fees just to enter the worst country on earth?
Obviously you have not travelled much if you think the USA is the worst country on earth.

Or you are just saying that for effect.
Effect. But the truth is, for a developed country it seems rather daft and too aggressive for my tastes. Western coastal states and Hawaii are cool with me though.
C.W.E. wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:34 pmI am amazed at the amount of dislike for America there is in the pilot group, however regardless of your personal feelings they can and will deny you entry if they want to.
Hit the nail on the head with that one. They can do what they want, theyre their own country.
digits_ wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:37 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:44 pm It isn't law abiding in the United States....just saying.
We need to respect this.
Why? The US doesn't determine what is legal in Canada. You are not breaking any law in the United States by owning Canadian stock in a Canadian bank account. Just like Americans aren't breaking any Canadian laws by owning automatic weapons in the US.

You could argue they can decide who can and can not enter the US, but if they start pulling stunts like that, Canada could (and should, really) do the same. Or any country could start acting like that. It would be a disaster.
I dont think it has anything to do with determining whats legal up here, but whats legal down there. They can do what they want. There are plenty of things that are legal in Canada that are illegal in say, Saudi Arabia but that doesnt mean we should get in a tit-for-tat border war. What youre suggesting is exactly what youre against, trying to enforce national laws and regulations on another country.

I think were all a little miffed because for a long time the US was rather loosey goosey with entry rules and now theyre tightening up. After all, think about the developed countries that require entry visas. The US is its own country and they can do what they want. Just change the name to Turkey or Vietnam and its really the same thing. They have their own laws and regulations which we must respect and just deal with. You want to enter? You gotta play by our rules. Stupid? Yes. Stupid? No.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by North Shore »

Well, at least it's only pot...90 years ago, it was alcohol, too.
The Christian Temperance Union has cast a long shadow over US social policy...

I'd be very surprised if many of us don't have investments in the industry through mutual funds. Any fund manager worth their salt would have seen legalization coming down the pipe [ :lol: ] and thrown in a few $$ to up their returns for that quarter. Do you know the name/business of every company that is in a fund that you might own? I certainly don't.

Edited to add: In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if every Canadian, through their CPP contributions, is invested...
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by digits_ »

pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:40 am
I dont think it has anything to do with determining whats legal up here, but whats legal down there. They can do what they want. There are plenty of things that are legal in Canada that are illegal in say, Saudi Arabia but that doesnt mean we should get in a tit-for-tat border war. What youre suggesting is exactly what youre against, trying to enforce national laws and regulations on another country.
You missed the point completely. If country B is refusing entrance to citizens who do something that is legal in country A while living in country A, you could probably find something on every citizen of every country to prohibit them access to any other country in the world. Speed limits, DUI limits, same sex marriages, abortion, gun use and control, free speech, ... All subjects that vary wildly over the globe.

And again: yes, they can decide to refuse entry to anyone they want, but if they do, there should be consequences. Nobody is advocating imposing Canadian rules in the US. If you buy pot stocks while in the US and it is illegal there, then you could get in trouble and it is all on you. But if you don't, the US should not punish you for something you legally did in Canada. The only way other countries can prevent such behaviour, is to implement it themselves. Childish? Yes, but if that's the level of international diplomacy we've reached, then so be it.

Question: why are you ok with the US refusing entry to pot stock holders, but not with Canadian refusing entry to automatic gun owners?

Another one: the whole aviation world seems to be ok with crew visas and fignerprinting for air crew, yet american pilots can travel to a whole lot of countries without having to go through the same hassle. A tit-for-tat attitude in this would be appropriate. What kind of signal are you giving to the citizens of your country if you tell another country yours can't be trusted but theirs can be? Pretty disgusting.
pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:40 am I think were all a little miffed because for a long time the US was rather loosey goosey with entry rules and now theyre tightening up. After all, think about the developed countries that require entry visas. The US is its own country and they can do what they want. Just change the name to Turkey or Vietnam and its really the same thing. They have their own laws and regulations which we must respect and just deal with. You want to enter? You gotta play by our rules. Stupid? Yes. Stupid? No.
Yes you respect their laws and customs -while you are there-. so you are not going to be publically drunk in one of ther mosques or churches. That doesn't mean they will refuse you access because you were drunk in Canada once while going to church.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by pianokeys »

digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amYou missed the point completely. If country B is refusing entrance to citizens who do something that is legal in country A while living in country A, you could probably find something on every citizen of every country to prohibit them access to any other country in the world. Speed limits, DUI limits, same sex marriages, abortion, gun use and control, free speech, ... All subjects that vary wildly over the globe.
I really dont think youre grasping this concept at all. Its their country and they can do whatever they want. Just think of how many other countries there are on earth that deny access to people who do legal things in their country. Ever try and go to Mecca as a Christian?
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amAnd again: yes, they can decide to refuse entry to anyone they want, but if they do, there should be consequences.
Sounds like a escalating tit-for-tat border war to me.

digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amNobody is advocating imposing Canadian rules in the US...

they can decide to refuse entry to anyone they want, but if they do, there should be consequences...

You could argue they can decide who can and can not enter the US, but if they start pulling stunts like that, Canada could (and should, really) do the same...

the US should not punish you for something you legally did in Canada...
This is the most contradictory string of thoughts I have ever read. And these are all things youve said.
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amThat doesn't mean they will refuse you access because you were drunk in Canada once while going to church.
Actually it does. If you have a criminal record in Canada, you can be denied entry in to the US. Or denied entry in to any country that doesnt want criminals visiting.
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amthen so be it.
Exactly. Just deal with it. Move on.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by digits_ »

pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:35 am
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amYou missed the point completely. If country B is refusing entrance to citizens who do something that is legal in country A while living in country A, you could probably find something on every citizen of every country to prohibit them access to any other country in the world. Speed limits, DUI limits, same sex marriages, abortion, gun use and control, free speech, ... All subjects that vary wildly over the globe.
I really dont think youre grasping this concept at all. Its their country and they can do whatever they want. Just think of how many other countries there are on earth that deny access to people who do legal things in their country. Ever try and go to Mecca as a Christian?
Mecca is not a country.


pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:35 am
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amAnd again: yes, they can decide to refuse entry to anyone they want, but if they do, there should be consequences.
Sounds like a escalating tit-for-tat border war to me.
That is what it could possibly turn in to. So I'd like to avoid that whole thing and request that the US gets rid of this policy.

pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:35 am
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amNobody is advocating imposing Canadian rules in the US...

they can decide to refuse entry to anyone they want, but if they do, there should be consequences...

You could argue they can decide who can and can not enter the US, but if they start pulling stunts like that, Canada could (and should, really) do the same...

the US should not punish you for something you legally did in Canada...
This is the most contradictory string of thoughts I have ever read. And these are all things youve said.
What is contradictory about any of those things?

Clarification:
1) Nobody is advocating that people should be allowed to buy pot stocks in the US
2) They have the legal right to turn anyone away for any random reason. Canada has the same legal right to do the same thing at its borders.
3) If the US turns people away for marihuana stock, Canada could decide to turn people away for owning automatic guns
4) The US (or Canada for that matter) shouldn't punish citizens from other countries for doing legal things in that country. Nor the pot stock holders, nor the automatic gun owners have done anything wrong in this example.
pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:35 am If you have a criminal record in Canada, you can be denied entry in to the US. Or denied entry in to any country that doesnt want criminals visiting.
Correct, because it shows you don't follow the rules. The people we are discussing here are Canadians who LEGALLY own marihuana stock and do not have a criminal record. This is not about "criminals visiting the US"


Here is another question for you: what if the US would refuse all hockey players or hockey fans entry into the US, because they do not like the violence that accompanies the sport? Would you still accept it and defend their right to do so without any reciprocal action?

It seems to me that a lot of people don't care about the policy because they do not approve recreational marihuana use themselves and find it secretly very good that the US steps up where Canada "failed" and they hope the US will do the dirty work for them. If that is your point of view, you are not an objective party in this discussion.

Me, I don't care about Marihuana use or hockey either way, and I would be opposed to both policies for the reasons stated above.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by C.W.E. »

Mecca is not a country.
True but it is in a country that has very strict rules about their holy places of which Mecca is the holiest.

Having gone through the process of getting visas to go to Saudi Arabia three times I can tell you it is a very difficult thing to get and you have to go to their embassy in Ottawa for an interview each time.

Once there they have some interesting practices that you can observe, in fact they want you to observe them.

Every Tuesday and Friday morning they have their public beheading's in front of the Mosque which draws quite a crowd.

In Jeddah we were close enough to the Mosque we could watch their beheading's from our hotel window.

Mind you Saudi Arabia is no where near as bad a country as the U.S. is though.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by digits_ »

C.W.E. wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:39 am
Mecca is not a country.
True but it is in a country that has very strict rules about their holy places of which Mecca is the holiest.

Having gone through the process of getting visas to go to Saudi Arabia three times I can tell you it is a very difficult thing to get and you have to go to their embassy in Ottawa for an interview each time.
Before you visited Saudi Arabia, did you do things in other countries that were legal in those countries, that would be illegal/get you arrested (or worse) in Saudi Arabia if you did them there?
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by pianokeys »

digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 amMecca is not a country.
No, its not. But it is an example where something legal here, isnt there. And thats in Saudi Araiba. And they turn away whoever they like for things that are legal in Canada. You should get in to a millennial stink about that!


digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amWhat is contradictory about any of those things?
These two statements here:
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amNobody is advocating imposing Canadian rules in the US...

they can decide to refuse entry to anyone they want,
Contradict these statements you made
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 ambut if they do, there should be consequences...
but if they start pulling stunts like that, Canada could (and should, really) do the same...
the US should not punish you for something you legally did in Canada...
So I'd like to avoid that whole thing and request that the US gets rid of this policy.
If thats not clear enough, you also said this:
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:58 amThe US (or Canada for that matter) shouldn't punish citizens from other countries for doing legal things in that country.
Yet you want us to impose retaliatory efforts? So, were going to fight fire, with fire? Two wrongs don't make a right.
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 am3) If the US turns people away for "marihuana" stock, Canada could decide to turn people away for owning automatic guns
Image
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 amHere is another question for you: what if the US would refuse all hockey players or hockey fans entry into the US, because they do not like the violence that accompanies the sport? Would you still accept it and defend their right to do so without any reciprocal action?
Ill answer this with something you just said in the clarification of contradictory posts you made.
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 amThey have the legal right to turn anyone away for any random reason.
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 amIf that is your point of view, you are not an objective party in this discussion.
No. I am pro pot, and I think its foolish the US is denying access to people, like me, who invest in weed. But, they can do what they want, as you have said, they have the legal right to turn anyone away for any random reason. However, seeing how you made this statement saying I have no place in this discussion if I did feel that way, and your horrid spelling in grammar, and contradictory grasping for straws debate style makes me believe you are a millennial of some sort.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by C.W.E. »

Before you visited Saudi Arabia, did you do things in other countries that were legal in those countries, that would get you arrested (or worse) in Saudi Arabia if you did them there?
First off I was not " visiting " Saudi Arabia, I was there as part of my flying business and quite frankly I was treated very well by the people I met there.

As to your question about doing anything in other countries that would have got me arrested in Saudi Arabia, they didn't think so because they issued me the visas.

There are far worse places on earth than Saudi Arabia.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by digits_ »

Okay. Not sure what that meme has got to do with anything.

I'm also happy to know you read my posts in detail to notice all the grammar and spelling mistakes. Your replies give the impression that you didn't.

Simplified:
1) US can legally turn away anyone they want, as in: no lawyer would be able to get you access, as no laws were broken.
2) Canada can do that as well.

If 1) happens, 2) can be a response to that. Even though 1) is legal, that does not mean it is desired behaviour. As a method to prevent 1), Canada could implement 2). This would prevent law abiding Canadians from being "punished" by the US for no legal reason. In that case Canada would also do undesired behaviour. The tit-for-tat you mentioned. If that is the only way to get rid of 1), then so be it.

There is no contradiction in anything I've said. Merely a list of actions and reactions that could happen.

No. I am pro pot, and I think its foolish the US is denying access to people, like me, who invest in weed. But, they can do what they want, as you have said, they have the legal right to turn anyone away for any random reason. However, seeing how you made this statement saying I have no place in this discussion if I did feel that way, and your horrid spelling in grammar, and contradictory grasping for straws debate style makes me believe you are a millennial of some sort.
I never said people don't have a place in this discussion, only that they are not an objective party if they are using the US policy as an argument to defend an anti-marihuana stance in Canada. Try to figure out how logic works.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by digits_ »

C.W.E. wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:53 am
Before you visited Saudi Arabia, did you do things in other countries that were legal in those countries, that would get you arrested (or worse) in Saudi Arabia if you did them there?
First off I was not " visiting " Saudi Arabia, I was there as part of my flying business and quite frankly I was treated very well by the people I met there.

As to your question about doing anything in other countries that would have got me arrested in Saudi Arabia, they didn't think so because they issued me the visas.

There are far worse places on earth than Saudi Arabia.
Okay, semantics: visiting, for work, ... not really relevant for the discussion here. Let's say you entered Saudi Arabia, correct?

You didn't answer the question though: did you do things before you entered Saudi Arabia that would have been illegal in Saudi Arabia? If I'm not mistaken, consuming alcohol is illegal there. I am pretty sure you had consumed alcohol at some point in your life before entering, yet they did not refuse you entry.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by C.W.E. »

You didn't answer the question though: did you do things before you entered Saudi Arabia that would have been illegal in Saudi Arabia? If I'm not mistaken, consuming alcohol is illegal there. I am pretty sure you had consumed alcohol at some point in your life before entering, yet they did not refuse you entry.
Yes I consumed alcohol during my lifetime, in fact I was a full blown alcoholic for many years and also flew for a living during that period.

Are you suggesting that the U.S. is more draconian than Saudi Arabia?
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by digits_ »

C.W.E. wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:09 am
You didn't answer the question though: did you do things before you entered Saudi Arabia that would have been illegal in Saudi Arabia? If I'm not mistaken, consuming alcohol is illegal there. I am pretty sure you had consumed alcohol at some point in your life before entering, yet they did not refuse you entry.
Yes I consumed alcohol during my lifetime, in fact I was a full blown alcoholic for many years and also flew for a living during that period.

Are you suggesting that the U.S. is more draconian than Saudi Arabia?
No. Merely illustrating that Saudi Arabia is allowing people access to their country even though they have done things in other countries that would be illegal in Saudi Arabia. Someone thought it was important engouh to bring up in this discussion. It wasn't me.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by pianokeys »

digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:04 amYou didn't answer the question though: did you do things before you entered Saudi Arabia that would have been illegal in Saudi Arabia?
Try telling them youre gay, and see how well it works out for you. Legal here, not there.

By imposing retaliatory measures you're essentially telling them what to do. Which is what you've said is not something right.

Anyways, looks like you haven't taken your lithium today, oh darn, so you'll just keep talking in circles here. Contradicting yourself. We're done here.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by digits_ »

pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:16 am
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:04 amYou didn't answer the question though: did you do things before you entered Saudi Arabia that would have been illegal in Saudi Arabia?
Try telling them youre gay, and see how well it works out for you. Legal here, not there.
While this is second hand information, being gay is not a problem. Performing homosexual acts is though. Maybe CWE will have more accurate data for this.
pianokeys wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:16 am By imposing retaliatory measures you're essentially telling them what to do. Which is what you've said is not something right.
My freedom ends where yours begins. My preference would be that the retaliatory measures are not required, but if necessary I think its use can be authorized, as it might be the only way to change their policy. I would not approve of Canada implementing such a policy first though, only as a countermeasure (or the threat thereof).
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by C.W.E. »

While this is second hand information, being gay is not a problem. Performing homosexual acts is though. Maybe CWE will have more accurate data for this.
I never ever had any reason to wonder about being a homosexual because I am not that way wired, but I will take your word that it is not a problem in Saudi Arabia if you don't perform the act there.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by rookiepilot »

Some of you writing....no offense but try getting out more. Will give you context.
There are numerous countries with pretty obnoxious visa processes.....you have to do HERE before you even get on an airplane. Some of the questions I KNOW would offend half of you.

Which they can deny for any reason, or no reason at all.

Approval of THAT visa only allows you to get on the airplane. At the border, you can still be denied entry, or interrogated for any reason. Or no reason at all, and deported immediately, AND banned, if they don't like you.

And you think US border guards are rude. LOL.

Don't like it? Tough. It's their country! Period. Full stop. End of discussion. As is the US. Our opinions are both irrelevant and totally ridiculous applied to another sovereign nation. We've been spoiled.

I'll never stop travelling, though. I love the people wherever I've been. Not going to let border stuff stop me.

Ps. I predict more Visa's in my future...not less. Better get used to tightening borders.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by Rockie »

digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 am 3) If the US turns people away for marihuana stock, Canada could decide to turn people away for owning automatic guns
Excellent point.
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Re: US turning people away at the boarder for investments in pot.

Post by rookiepilot »

Rockie wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:16 pm
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:08 am 3) If the US turns people away for marihuana stock, Canada could decide to turn people away for owning automatic guns
Excellent point.
Flip side.

I find it interesting that many of the same crowd that doesn't want to be told what they can and cannot do by the US in regards to pot, thinks they can proclaim loudly the US should repeal the second amendment-- because we in Canada don't agree with "gun loving Texans".

Ever think the Americans don't give a sh-- what we think? News flash they don't.
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