Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

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lownslow
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by lownslow » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:46 am

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:41 am
lownslow wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:09 am
cloak wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:53 am
a DEC with over 10,000 hours and 10 years in 705 operations will start at year 10 pay.
This hypothetical person could still be an idiot. The hard part is safeguarding against that.
Hopefully filtered out in interviews and sim evals.
Maybe idiot was too strong a word. The real danger would be this DEC slotting into the tenth year pay being good enough to pass but objectively and visibly worse on the job than, say, your average third year captain. You've now angered your second through ninth year captains over this new guy making more than them in spite of their weak performance and it was all to fill one seat. This is why that's currently a rarity.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by FL007 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:21 pm

lownslow wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:46 am
schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:41 am
lownslow wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:09 am

This hypothetical person could still be an idiot. The hard part is safeguarding against that.
Hopefully filtered out in interviews and sim evals.
Maybe idiot was too strong a word. The real danger would be this DEC slotting into the tenth year pay being good enough to pass but objectively and visibly worse on the job than, say, your average third year captain. You've now angered your second through ninth year captains over this new guy making more than them in spite of their weak performance and it was all to fill one seat. This is why that's currently a rarity.
I'm thinking 10 year is a little much, but giving someone with 10 years of 705 experience PIC year 3 or 4 pay to soften the blow, and as long as I kept seniority I wouldn't think twice. This person put in their time in the industry, and it softens the blow for good guys/girls with golden handcuffs who want a change.

Also It benefits literally every other pilot in the company as well, don't be sour that you didn't have the experience to ask for year 3 pay at first year, but your schedule is now better because of this person, and you have risen on the seniority list indefinitely whether you were captain or FO that got jumped.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by Lightchop » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:23 pm

American companies are giving YOS credit for pay. Up to the max. Skywest for example.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by jakeandelwood » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:17 am

I made 15k more than that last year driving a truck.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by Lightchop » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:36 am

jakeandelwood wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:17 am
I made 15k more than that last year driving a truck.
Yeah, but you drive a truck.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by jakeandelwood » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:38 pm

Yes I do, I also went out and bought my own damn plane, I fly where I want, when I want and how I want.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by C.W.E. » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:16 pm

Yeah, but you drive a truck.
There are lots of people who like driving a truck.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by confusedalot » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:07 pm

jakeandelwood wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:17 am
I made 15k more than that last year driving a truck.
90K a year to drive a truck? Or more? How come I can't find these jobs on the internet.

Agreed, pay at Sky is out to lunch though.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by C-GGGQ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:31 pm

I actually saw an ad through indeed not long ago for 75 cents a mile long haul. That'd be close to 90k. Making 45-50 cents right now for 60-70k but I'm also not putting on the miles like I used to. Only 8k ish a month vs 10-12k that a "full time" guy would do. However that comes with its own issues. Company wanted a guy basically willing to go out for 15 day trips and do 2 back to back before getting time off at home (probably only 2 days) but you'd make almost 6 figures for sure.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by confusedalot » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:00 pm

C-GGGQ wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:31 pm
I actually saw an ad through indeed not long ago for 75 cents a mile long haul. That'd be close to 90k. Making 45-50 cents right now for 60-70k but I'm also not putting on the miles like I used to. Only 8k ish a month vs 10-12k that a "full time" guy would do. However that comes with its own issues. Company wanted a guy basically willing to go out for 15 day trips and do 2 back to back before getting time off at home (probably only 2 days) but you'd make almost 6 figures for sure.
Sorry to everyone for the drift, just felt I should respond......

Well, I guess it really depends on where you live and perhaps what additional qualifications you have.

Just getting bored in retirement, almost enrolled myself in a fully paid 6 month course here in Quebec, and forgot about it after I did my research. There is no way they pay that much around here for someone starting out anyway, at best 50K, at worst below 30K, with a gruelling lifestyle. I figured that doing a couple of trips here and there just for kicks would be fun but quickly realized that it would not be possible.

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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by Lightchop » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:16 pm

Don't forget Sky pilots fly like 80+ hours seat time. Compare that to 50-60 at Jazz the pay might be better but be garunteed you're sure going to work for it.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by rudder » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:04 am

Lightchop wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:16 pm
Don't forget Sky pilots fly like 80+ hours seat time. Compare that to 50-60 at Jazz the pay might be better but be garunteed you're sure going to work for it.
That is an important metric. Without rigs and daily guarantees, annual flight time accrued will be significantly higher for similar T4. Very useful to calculate an effective hourly rate (i.e. $100,000 earned for 700 hours flown vs $100,000 earned for 1000 hours flown is $142.86/hr vs $100/hr.

Flight pay/duty hours ratio. Flight pay/trip hours ratio. Minimum daily credit. Vacation/stat entitlements. Overtime pay formula. Sick pay. All factor in to gross pay vs total time spent at work. Without synthetic credits, days worked increases dramatically and lifestyle is affected accordingly.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by Inverted2 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:14 am

If you guys get paid mileage what happens when you get a 2 hr ground stop delay to EWR and sit in the deicing pad?
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by confusedalot » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:46 pm

Inverted2 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:14 am
If you guys get paid mileage what happens when you get a 2 hr ground stop delay to EWR and sit in the deicing pad?
Not there anymore since 3 years, but from what I recall, you get nothing. Duty time limits kick in, so go to the hotel, and let ops figure out the next move.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by jakeandelwood » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:07 pm
jakeandelwood wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:17 am
I made 15k more than that last year driving a truck.
90K a year to drive a truck? Or more? How come I can't find these jobs on the internet.

Agreed, pay at Sky is out to lunch though.
It's not just driving the truck. While it's just a little single axle truck and all you need is your airbrake endorsement you need to be able to pull a 200 pound fuel hose into people's backyards, and do that about 30 times a day without spilling a drop, that's why the pay is good. Most new guys quit in about a week. it's more about 70k, the overtime makes it 90k, I'm at 95k now, still one more cheque before the year is up
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by Lightchop » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:23 am

jakeandelwood wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:07 pm
jakeandelwood wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:17 am
I made 15k more than that last year driving a truck.
90K a year to drive a truck? Or more? How come I can't find these jobs on the internet.

Agreed, pay at Sky is out to lunch though.
It's not just driving the truck. While it's just a little single axle truck and all you need is your airbrake endorsement you need to be able to pull a 200 pound fuel hose into people's backyards, and do that about 30 times a day without spilling a drop, that's why the pay is good. Most new guys quit in about a week. it's more about 70k, the overtime makes it 90k, I'm at 95k now, still one more cheque before the year is up
Oh, so you DON'T make that just driving a truck. Ok. That makes more sense.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by C-GGGQ » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:58 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:23 am
jakeandelwood wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:07 pm


90K a year to drive a truck? Or more? How come I can't find these jobs on the internet.

Agreed, pay at Sky is out to lunch though.
It's not just driving the truck. While it's just a little single axle truck and all you need is your airbrake endorsement you need to be able to pull a 200 pound fuel hose into people's backyards, and do that about 30 times a day without spilling a drop, that's why the pay is good. Most new guys quit in about a week. it's more about 70k, the overtime makes it 90k, I'm at 95k now, still one more cheque before the year is up
Oh, so you DON'T make that just driving a truck. Ok. That makes more sense.
Well in that case there is no job "just driving a truck" they all require paperwork, manual labour, equipment inspections, trip planning, etc. It's remarkably similar to 703 ops 😉
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by Lightchop » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:07 pm

C-GGGQ wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:58 pm
Lightchop wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:23 am
jakeandelwood wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm


It's not just driving the truck. While it's just a little single axle truck and all you need is your airbrake endorsement you need to be able to pull a 200 pound fuel hose into people's backyards, and do that about 30 times a day without spilling a drop, that's why the pay is good. Most new guys quit in about a week. it's more about 70k, the overtime makes it 90k, I'm at 95k now, still one more cheque before the year is up
Oh, so you DON'T make that just driving a truck. Ok. That makes more sense.
Well in that case there is no job "just driving a truck" they all require paperwork, manual labour, equipment inspections, trip planning, etc. It's remarkably similar to 703 ops 😉
Ok so now were comparing 703 ops to a $70k a year truck job. Ok.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by jakeandelwood » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:28 am

Lightchop wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:23 am
jakeandelwood wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:07 pm


90K a year to drive a truck? Or more? How come I can't find these jobs on the internet.

Agreed, pay at Sky is out to lunch though.
It's not just driving the truck. While it's just a little single axle truck and all you need is your airbrake endorsement you need to be able to pull a 200 pound fuel hose into people's backyards, and do that about 30 times a day without spilling a drop, that's why the pay is good. Most new guys quit in about a week. it's more about 70k, the overtime makes it 90k, I'm at 95k now, still one more cheque before the year is up
Oh, so you DON'T make that just driving a truck. Ok. That makes more sense.
And a Sky Regional Captain is "just flying the plane" maybe they get paid more to do all the other stuff associated with safely getting their passengers from A to B
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by Lightchop » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:23 am

jakeandelwood wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:28 am
Lightchop wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:23 am
jakeandelwood wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm


It's not just driving the truck. While it's just a little single axle truck and all you need is your airbrake endorsement you need to be able to pull a 200 pound fuel hose into people's backyards, and do that about 30 times a day without spilling a drop, that's why the pay is good. Most new guys quit in about a week. it's more about 70k, the overtime makes it 90k, I'm at 95k now, still one more cheque before the year is up
Oh, so you DON'T make that just driving a truck. Ok. That makes more sense.
And a Sky Regional Captain is "just flying the plane" maybe they get paid more to do all the other stuff associated with safely getting their passengers from A to B
Yeah sure but you don't see any 705 pilots hucking bags or fueling/spraying planes. I still don't see how you can compare the two at all.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by confusedalot » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:39 pm

Oh boy........

May I point out an obvious fact of life....

Now, I am, and my buddy are older, so my buddies payscale is at the top.

Having said that, he made 390K US at american airlines flying a 737 on a normal, meaning easy, schedule.

A pilot job is a pilot job. A truckers job is a truckers job.

Truckers work really hard and deserve more than what they get as far as I am concerned.

But they do not have to go through pilot training. It is not the same thing.

So, comparing salaries is like comparing a programmer to a data entry technician.

If you want pilot salaries in Canada to reach international levels, perhaps it is time to dump the defeatist attitude and stand up for a change.

For anyone who thinks that operating a truck is similar to operating a plane, a big surprise is awaiting. Sure, you get stuff from point a to point b, that is the only common similarity.

Things are changing ever so slowly here, keep the inertia going if you want real change.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by C-GGGQ » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:51 pm

I have in fact done both and honestly long haul trucking is ridiculously similar to single pilot 703 ops. However I think we were (at least I was) trying to point out how stupid it is that air Canada's starting pay which is not an entry level job is now 10-30k less per year than an entry level trucking job. Rather than trying to justify it. Pilots license is 10 times more and 2 years vs 6 weeks. Pilots deserve better.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by goldeneagle » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:38 am

C-GGGQ wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:51 pm
Pilots license is 10 times more and 2 years vs 6 weeks.
Not a valid comparison. To do the class 1 license for the truck in 6 weeks assumes you start with an unrestricted class 5. The aviation equivalent then, start the cpl course when you have a ppl with a couple hundred hours in the book. I can say from experience, that takes 3 weeks. A few months after I did the cpl course, I did a multi-ifr, that took me another 3 week session of full time at the flight school. Total time investment from ppl to cpl with multi-ifr, 6 weeks over 2 sessions of 3 weeks each. the only difference between this and the trucking course is how much you end up spending in the process.

Even the vaunted ATPL is not really a major achievement. After working in the industry for 2 or 3 years, take a weekend crash course and you can breeze thru the tests on Monday. Again, been there, done that, then submit a logbook, and voila, you get the ATPL. It's less effort than getting a red seal plumbing ticket, which involves a 4 year apprenticeship with 6 weeks in school on each of those 4 years.

Reality is, there is only one barrier to entry for flying, and that is cost. Here in Canada, it's still well within reach of anybody that wants to spend the bucks, so we have a surplus of entry level pilots looking for entry level jobs, always have, and as long as we have viable general aviation in this country, we always will. As long as there is a surplus of qualified folks, there wont be upward pressure on wages, and in fact, downward pressure will continue until supply and demand reach equilibrium. That is how a free market works.
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Re: Sky Regional Direct Entry Captain Posting - What a Joke

Post by C-GGGQ » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:50 am

However, most people have a class 5 to start vs a ppl. Very few have a ppl for their daily life and THEN decide on cpl etc. Usually most students decide I want to be a pilot for a living and then go through the whole process.
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