GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

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skytrucker
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GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#1 Post by skytrucker » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:39 pm

The old and current contract pilots and fas are working under is better than what GGN Management intends to offer ALPA and CUPE. :smt014 Threats from the Big North End have gone as low as taking away all travel passes if pilots don’t agree to sign. Ggn wants increased duty days and less rest . Think safety and STRIKE. It’s the only way to deal with delusional greedy management.
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805ITT
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#2 Post by 805ITT » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:08 am

CUPE and GGN reached a tentative deal last week so it can’t be as doom and gloomy as skytrucker suggests.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#3 Post by PRM1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:18 am

Or it is just that bad and management is delusional.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#4 Post by Inverted2 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:53 am

The ALPA newsletter I recently got says they are going to arbitration because management has only attended 2 negotiations meetings. True?
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#5 Post by PRM1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:26 am

Sounds about right
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#6 Post by 805ITT » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:42 am

Hi,

Not true, there have been many dates for bargaining scheduled this year plus 16 dates until the end of the year to work towards a TA.

A TA has been completed with Unifor, a tentative TA has been agreed to with CUPE. We respect ALPA’s right for conciliation but would like to be at the bargaining table with them.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#7 Post by PRM1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:05 pm

Scheduled dates and meetings attended by both sides of the bargaining table are two very different things...
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#8 Post by PRM1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:06 pm

805ITT wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:42 am
Hi,

Not true, there have been many dates for bargaining scheduled this year plus 16 dates until the end of the year to work towards a TA.

A TA has been completed with Unifor, a tentative TA has been agreed to with CUPE. We respect ALPA’s right for conciliation but would like to be at the bargaining table with them.
What’s even more troubling is that GGN is Avcanada’s biggest advertiser and those advertisements are constantly bragging about GGN’s hiring practices.

The reality here is that they are actively threatening to furlough the 1900 pilot group after telling them that their employment at the company is safe and that they shouldn’t worry.

To me, it looks like GGN is up against a wall, faced with an impending strike action caused by the constant state of denial by which, the company has been operating under for some years now. Instead of playing fair and meeting ALPA to come to a fair solution for both parties through good faith bargaining, GGN management has decided the best action plan is to fear monger, threaten, and blatantly ignore the Canadian labour code to solve their “little” problem.

I’m sure that this comment will be deleted in short time like all other posts that shed light on GGN’s deplorable ways, so get it while it’s hot people.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#9 Post by speedah » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:59 pm

SHITHOLE!

I can’t imagine those clowns being able to run the place with a reasonable profit if a contract is signed.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#10 Post by skytrucker » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:52 am

PRM1 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:06 pm
805ITT wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:42 am
Hi,

Not true, there have been many dates for bargaining scheduled this year plus 16 dates until the end of the year to work towards a TA.

A TA has been completed with Unifor, a tentative TA has been agreed to with CUPE. We respect ALPA’s right for conciliation but would like to be at the bargaining table with them.
What’s even more troubling is that GGN is Avcanada’s biggest advertiser and those advertisements are constantly bragging about GGN’s hiring practices.

The reality here is that they are actively threatening to furlough the 1900 pilot group after telling them that their employment at the company is safe and that they shouldn’t worry.

To me, it looks like GGN is up against a wall, faced with an impending strike action caused by the constant state of denial by which, the company has been operating under for some years now. Instead of playing fair and meeting ALPA to come to a fair solution for both parties through good faith bargaining, GGN management has decided the best action plan is to fear monger, threaten, and blatantly ignore the Canadian labour code to solve their “little” problem.

I’m sure that this comment will be deleted in short time like all other posts that shed light on GGN’s deplorable ways, so get it while it’s hot people.
Your post deserves a Nobel Prize .
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#11 Post by proper » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 am

We all know Ggn management is evil.
Adapt or die. They are accountable to shareholders and if they don't give to the employee group.... They will be replaced. That will be a day I happily cheers to.
Go forth Ggn pilots, you have all of Alpa behind you. The 61000 members have been where you are at one time or another. DONT LET TYRANNY WIN!
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#12 Post by PRM1 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:31 am

proper wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 am
We all know Ggn management is evil.
Adapt or die. They are accountable to shareholders and if they don't give to the employee group.... They will be replaced. That will be a day I happily cheers to.
Go forth Ggn pilots, you have all of Alpa behind you. The 61000 members have been where you are at one time or another. DONT LET TYRANNY WIN!
AMEN! :prayer:
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#13 Post by Inverted2 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:52 am

I give this thread about a day till it's deleted. :mrgreen:

PS guys it's great you have ALPA batting for you. Good luck.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#14 Post by Anticyclone » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:10 am

proper wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 am
We all know Ggn management is evil.
Adapt or die. They are accountable to shareholders and if they don't give to the employee group.... They will be replaced. That will be a day I happily cheers to.
Go forth Ggn pilots, you have all of Alpa behind you. The 61000 members have been where you are at one time or another. DONT LET TYRANNY WIN!
Are you guys trying to fight " an evil management " with the same ALPA that crumbled Jazz and express salaries not too long ago :vom: by the way im a pilot on the pilot side, Always.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#15 Post by iflyroads » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:18 am

Anticyclone wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:10 am
proper wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 am
We all know Ggn management is evil.
Adapt or die. They are accountable to shareholders and if they don't give to the employee group.... They will be replaced. That will be a day I happily cheers to.
Go forth Ggn pilots, you have all of Alpa behind you. The 61000 members have been where you are at one time or another. DONT LET TYRANNY WIN!
Are you guys trying to fight " an evil management " with the same ALPA that crumbled Jazz and express salaries not too long ago :vom: by the way im a pilot on the pilot side, Always.
GGN wasnt represented by ALPA when that LOU was signed. They certified with ALPA almost two years ago now. That LOU was also signed in 2013 without a vote or pilots knowledge at that time.

I wish the folks there the best of luck. Tough spot to be in.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#16 Post by Inverted2 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:20 am

Anticyclone wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:10 am
proper wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 am
We all know Ggn management is evil.
Adapt or die. They are accountable to shareholders and if they don't give to the employee group.... They will be replaced. That will be a day I happily cheers to.
Go forth Ggn pilots, you have all of Alpa behind you. The 61000 members have been where you are at one time or another. DONT LET TYRANNY WIN!
Are you guys trying to fight " an evil management " with the same ALPA that crumbled Jazz and express salaries not too long ago :vom: by the way im a pilot on the pilot side, Always.
That whole fiasco was done by AC management who also brought us Rouge. They make GGN management look tame. ALPA couldn't do much. If they held out for better pay at one regional, they would have moved it to one of the others. That's why we need a strong Union or we would all be working under GGN conditions.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#17 Post by GATRKGA » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:07 pm

I wish you guys the best boys and girls. Make sure you stand together on strike mandates so that you give your negotiating committee a powerful stance. No body here is going to lose their jobs. And if you do, the industry is booming. Look at it as a paid vacation, as ALPA fights them in court, gets you your jobs back with additional loss of income applications, while you've been flying for another outfit anyway. Every one is hiring.

This thread and the events that played out at WJ is hopefully a really good lesson for management at SKY REGIONAL execs to study and learn from. Certification is any day I hear.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#18 Post by skytrucker » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:27 pm

Are you guys trying to fight " an evil management " with the same ALPA that crumbled Jazz and express salaries not too long ago :vom: by the way im a pilot on the pilot side, Always.
[/quote]

ALPA has done more for the GGN pilots than anyone . I commend them for standing up against tyranny . So how can you be a pilot on the pilot side ? That's truth and that's what needs to be stopped.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#19 Post by CRAFT » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:14 am

anyone know how the negotiations are going?
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#20 Post by twotterjockey91 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:06 pm

From what I've heard it's been a bit like banging your head against a wall. TAs have been signed but at a snail's pace. A hand full still need to be finalized and of course those final details all seem to be monetary ones. GGN hanging on to every cent like it's their last.

Conciliation was extended 21 days as a show of good faith by ALPA, doesn't seem like the good faith is being returned though. Cooling off begins on the 1st of 2019.

-TJ
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#21 Post by flyinhigh » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 am

Why would you agree to extend beyond christmas? You gave the company exactly what they wanted by doing so.
twotterjockey91 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:06 pm
From what I've heard it's been a bit like banging your head against a wall. TAs have been signed but at a snail's pace. A hand full still need to be finalized and of course those final details all seem to be monetary ones. GGN hanging on to every cent like it's their last.

Conciliation was extended 21 days as a show of good faith by ALPA, doesn't seem like the good faith is being returned though. Cooling off begins on the 1st of 2019.

-TJ
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#22 Post by Lightchop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:43 pm

flyinhigh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 am
Why would you agree to extend beyond christmas? You gave the company exactly what they wanted by doing so.
twotterjockey91 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:06 pm
From what I've heard it's been a bit like banging your head against a wall. TAs have been signed but at a snail's pace. A hand full still need to be finalized and of course those final details all seem to be monetary ones. GGN hanging on to every cent like it's their last.

Conciliation was extended 21 days as a show of good faith by ALPA, doesn't seem like the good faith is being returned though. Cooling off begins on the 1st of 2019.

-TJ
Good question to ask their MEC. GGN negots gave CR exactly what he wanted. Seems like a terrible decision by their negotiations team and MEC. There goes the only "big sick" GGN pilots had. Good luck getting any gains in January.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#23 Post by skytrucker » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:45 pm

Valid point . ALPA started strong coming out of the gate but giving GGN more time isn't doing any pilots a favour.
Check the ALPA memo citing what management has been up to and then scratch your head and ask why they would even consider letting GGN have another second to continue doing what they have been doing to the pilots . CUPE caved and the 3 year contract is worse than the OREA one . CUPE had their chance to do something good for the flight attendants but all that came of it was higher dues , longer duty days. Word from the cockpit is pilots are apprehensive now. Fear ALPA may be leading them down a road that will lead to nowhere with a weak negotiating team like CUPE had . A private WhatsApp group of flight attendants shared a PDF document CUPE sent the flight attendants in 2016. Promises of better conditions, strong negotiating, pay and protection has proven to be totally false. The CUPE executive negotiating were all amateurs with the exception of one old time guy that organized CUPE . He just resigned from CUPE after the heat got on him for delivering the heads of the fas on a platter to GGN . That guy used the flight attendants by demanding they refuse to go below 10 hrs min rest, wasted money on 3 separare arbitrations about the the 10 hours, but he did not use his experience to do anything other than rock the boat and whine about how bad life at GGN is. The final vote did not offer a proxy option and they couldn't vote online . My girlfriend told me only 30 fas voted because how could something so important not have an online vote option? The chance to make seniority work for bidding didnt happen, no progressive discipline, and they got 10 hours rest after all that. Since 2016 there was a flight attendant suicide, about 4 illegal dismissals, countless disciplinary meetings and endless promises only to have CUPE agree to bum deal contract worse than what they had to start with and they are stuck for 3 years. ALPA better get tough or GGN will habe just sealed themselves a gold star with Air Canada and big fat bonuses for management .
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#24 Post by rudder » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:02 am

GGN FA’s and pilots can vote with their feet. If bad deals are signed, there are lots of better job opportunities for both FA’s and pilots. It is a sellers market. Nobody needs to be held hostage unless it is their personal choice.
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Re: GGN ALPA and CUPE NEGOTIATION HELL

#25 Post by TGale » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Could it be possible that the GGN-ALPA pilots, in collusion with the Co. could be holding out to get a peek at whatever AC is dangling out for CPA "adjustments"? If they force an agreement before knowing what their CPA competitors are going to propose they could prematurely write themselves out of contention.

Patience can be a leaky boat.

TGale
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