Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

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DanWEC
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Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by DanWEC » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:20 pm

https://www.skiesmag.com/news/atac-push ... financing/

An article on how ATAC is addressing aspects of the pilot shortage by campaigning for more avenues for students to borrow money, and to increase the use of simulator time for licences.

Both bandaids. It's getting really frustrating listening to the same excuses. You will never hear any of these businesses even fleetingly suggest the primary, root issue is that pay, duty hours and general lifestyle has been wrung out so much that it lags behind the rest of the entire world. They know it- it would be unrealistic to think they're that obtuse. But when will they finally relent? How about allowing pilots to pay back those loans with proportionate salaries for 2018?

Meanwhile, here's another article written about the shortage, by an academic ex-pilot in the US. Good read. Note the different perspective, with the major points plainly outlined in the first paragraphs delving into the cause, instead of orbiting a solar system away.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airl ... index.html

Frustrating.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:54 am

Good article. We are nowhere near that desperate in Canada without the 1500hr rule. Rather than raise wages and offer bonuses, our airlines simply higher pilots with lower experience...and there will never be a shortage of 250hr pilots. I don’t think you will see a significant change in Wawcon due to a shortage here...unless the US opens the border to Canadians...then the last one out better be sure to turn off the lights!
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by FenderManDan » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:19 am

Its just the typical action=reaction system that happens when things are out of control.
Operators, on the flip side are saying that many young 20s pilots would just bail from the KingAir or 1900 to drive 320 or 737 no matter how much you pay them. How to protect that investment in training these dudes and dudettes?

What is the situation in Europe? They seem to have a lot of gray hairs driving KingAir and other smaller charter machines. Young ones are trainng on big metal right after 250 hours.
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FL007
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by FL007 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:37 am

FenderManDan wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:19 am
Its just the typical action=reaction system that happens when things are out of control.
Operators, on the flip side are saying that many young 20s pilots would just bail from the KingAir or 1900 to drive 320 or 737 no matter how much you pay them. How to protect that investment in training these dudes and dudettes?

What is the situation in Europe? They seem to have a lot of gray hairs driving KingAir and other smaller charter machines. Young ones are trainng on big metal right after 250 hours.
Because only the young stupid ones would pay for a 320 type rating out of pocket and accept awful work conditions, and the older pilots are doing well and know the grass isn't greener.

A plane is just a plane, everyone is staring out the window at the same thing. I learned a lot from the experienced captains that taught me how to fly starting out, they make good money flying 703/4 machines and will never leave so good for them!
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by co-joe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:06 pm

I agree with ATAC about more use of simulators could put out a better training product, but asking he government to help people to go 75 K in debt to get their training is insane.

That second article is good, but um, is that a twin otter cockpit? Unrelated, but weird for an article about airlines...
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complexintentions
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by complexintentions » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:09 pm

FenderManDan wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:19 am
Its just the typical action=reaction system that happens when things are out of control.
Operators, on the flip side are saying that many young 20s pilots would just bail from the KingAir or 1900 to drive 320 or 737 no matter how much you pay them. How to protect that investment in training these dudes and dudettes?

What is the situation in Europe? They seem to have a lot of gray hairs driving KingAir and other smaller charter machines. Young ones are trainng on big metal right after 250 hours.
There are not a lot of King Airs in Europe, and certainly not a lot of older pilots flying them. The young ones going straight onto narrowbodies are taking are far more debt than any pilot training in Canada. That debt carries its own risk and stressors.

Just saying that adopting the European "system" will not solve anything, just replace one set of issues with another one.

The grass really isn't greener.
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DanWEC
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by DanWEC » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:54 pm

co-joe wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:06 pm
I agree with ATAC about more use of simulators could put out a better training product, but asking he government to help people to go 75 K in debt to get their training is insane.

That second article is good, but um, is that a twin otter cockpit? Unrelated, but weird for an article about airlines...
I agree to a limited extent, but these solutions are blatantly inaccurate.

All I know, if my pool had a huge leak and I called a pool guy, he'd look at me like like I was a raging fucking idiot if I suggested my solution was to find a cheaper source of water and maybe explore financing arrangements to get it.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:38 am

Haha, I like that analogy. Problem is they are trying to make the pool bigger too. Plus nobody can stop the evaporation (retirements).
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by seven-oh-nooo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:30 pm

DanWEC wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:54 pm
All I know, if my pool had a huge leak and I called a pool guy
It’s true, you’d want your pool guy to bond a patch on that liner. You’d need a good bond though, a strong one. I know people who can make good bonds, airtight even. At least that will stop your water from leaking out to places it’s would rather be.
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rudder
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Re: Another ATAC effort.... aka sidestep.

Post by rudder » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:03 am

All this does is demonstrate the power of wishful thinking. Make your problem someone else’s problem. Accept no responsibility. Try to get someone else to pay for the solution.

ATAC lives in an alternative universe based on the past. Time to acknowledge the present and plan for the future.
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