Acceptable proof of hours for TC rating.

[complexintentions]

This question is for anyone who's used a printout of their electronically logged hours when applying for a license or rating, but particularly if that rating was obtained outside of Canada.

I went through the process a few years back and it was painless: fill in the application, submit the supporting docs to show at least 50 hours and current, copy of most recent PC check, pay the fee, and it was done. Did the same this time, including a copy of my EASA license which does have the rating on it.

But this time, they won't accept my logbook proof of hours (I have about 750 hrs on this type). I use an electronic logbook (LogTen Pro), which I print out as needed when changing employers or licenses. Each page contains the statement "I certify that the entries in this log are true" and has my signature. I was under the impression that this constitutes a legal document. It would seem other jurisdictions agree as it's never been an issue and I hold 4 ATPL's besides my Canadian one.

The TC person I've been dealing with says that if I had come into the office in Richmond and she had been able to verify the hours herself I would have been fine. But I seem unable to explain to her that if I had come into her office, I would have been presenting exactly the same thing I mailed to her - a printout of my hours from my electronic logbook , each page self-certified. I didn't send the entire 23 years of it, just the last ten pages with the hours logged on the aircraft of the rating applied for. Perhaps this is too confusing for her? I think she is envisioning a traditional paper logbook but surely they regularly deal with electronic logbook printouts for licenses and ratings?

So what this wonderful individual in the Pacific Region is saying is that as I didn't submit my "original logbook", the logbook hours have to be notarized. Except, the notary I inquired with says they won't notarize it because it's a printout - not a copy of an original document. Except that for all intents - it IS the original. Round and round we go.

Any ideas? I tried calling Transport back after speaking with the notary but they were of course, closed for the day at 3:30pm so I thought I would put it out to the collective mind and see what someone else has done.

[digits_]

Transport accepted a printed out and signed excel sheet for my ATPL and they appreciated that i emailed them the original as well.

That was in prairie area

[photofly]

Correct that it can't be notarized as a true copy, but you could swear an affidavit that the contents are true and correct.

[complexintentions]

Yeah think I'll go that route, just swear an affidavit.

Don't even really need the rating as I'll never fly on it in Canada, which is just as well as it's taken a few months already and still not done. Just wanted to add it for posterity and it's grown into an epic project: had to do a medical, ECG, pay the medical and rating fees, submitted a shit-ton of supporting docs and STILL they want more. And then of course, never reply to voicemails, never call back when they say they will, and so on. Can't understand why so many people hate Transport!

[igorcanuck]

I had a similar problem. TC didn’t accept any printouts. I had to put the hours in a traditional logbook to be able to finish my conversion.

[complexintentions]

I admit I'm at a loss as to how recording flight details by hand makes them more true than entering them on a computer and then printing them, but i guess that's why I don't work for the government...

I always thought that if a document accurately recorded the particulars required in the CAR's (points of dep-arr, crew names/times/date/reg/etc) that it met the definition of a logbook, but I guess it's up to the interpretation of the licensing officer or region or phase of the moon or whatever.

As usual, zero accountability or consistency. Not surprised, just weary of it.I long for the days when TC personnel were actual pilots, not bureaucrats.

[Daniel Cooper]

I think you may be missing her true meaning. She needs your entire logbook not just a portion of it.

[schnitzel2k3]

I think you may be missing her true meaning. She needs your entire logbook not just a portion of it.

He's only applying for a rating, not a license. Times on other aircraft are pointless, no?

S.

[Eric Janson]

Any ideas? I tried calling Transport back after speaking with the notary but they were of course, closed for the day at 3:30pm so I thought I would put it out to the collective mind and see what someone else has done.

What you could do is get the Airline to stamp and sign each page of the logbook printouts - my company does this on request.

Secondly would be a letter from the Airline stating that you are employed as Captain on BXXX and that the hours on Type in your logbook are correct.

[Beefitarian]

Transport certainly seems difficult to deal with sometimes. I just played a several month long game of, "Please explain what you want from my Ophthalmologist so he can send it to you." Grrrrr.

I wonder if they are concerned that being computerized makes it easier to change it from your log book to my log book?

Then since the company records or journey logs are further away it's more difficult for them to check who if either of us is telling the truth.

Obviously this is frustrating since you are not trying to fake your way into a rating but I suspect they see far too many people these days that are.

She probably fancies herself an expert at reading poker faces or possibly figures it is much less likely someone would go through the trouble of writing it out and physically showing up with false documents.

I hope it works out for you. I eventually got my medical back.

[complexintentions]

Just a follow-up on my attempt to add the B787 rating to my Canadian license.

I originally applied with a huge packet of substantiating documents on August 1 when I was home in Canada. At the time I did a TC medical ($125), ECG ($55), paid the rating fee ($30) and subsequently the medical licensing fee ($56.21 now). The medical was solely to revalidate my TC ATPL to add the rating. The rating is one I currently have on my EASA license with about 800 hours on type. Sort of amusingly, that total has grown a couple hundred hours since I first applied. But I'd still like to get the TC one done - I did pay for it.

I've contacted the licensing officer in the Pacific Region multiple times, on the rare occasion she answers her phone. (Voicemails and emails have been 100% ignored). First to determine that she wanted more documentation. Although I received confusing and contradictory information about what was supposedly required, I supplied this when I was home in Canada a second time in October. I left Canada on October 9, and as I was traveling through YVR offered to even come by personally in Richmond with whatever paperwork she desired. She assured me that it should be completed shortly.

It's now November 3, and I'm still waiting for the rating sticker.

At no time has anyone from Transport Canada had the courtesy to contact me by any means. Every single communication has been initiated by myself, including trying to find out what the issue was with the original application. Yeah yeah, they're short-staffed or whatever and I expected it to take a bit of time but come on. The appearance from the outside is that of an utterly inept and unprofessional organization with zero respect for the public it supposedly serves. (I can practically hear .'s "I told you so"'s! )

Such a ludicrous waste of time.

Any ideas for next steps? Any time I call they just forward me to the same person, how do I locate someone above them to attempt to try and get this simplest of tasks done?

[digits_]

If you supplied the information in october, your 90 days of waiting starts then. If you want to know if your application is actually approved, ask for a temporary license. You will have to pay for that, unless they exceed 90 days processing your application.

[ahramin]

I don't bother with phone calls anymore, too easy to ignore. When you think about it, if someone is not doing their job, calling them isn't going to change that.

I would send an email to the generic aviation.pac@tc.gc.ca and ask what the status of the application is. It will make it's way to the correct person, and along the way possibly to someone who can push that person to get your type rating done. Whenever I have an application in with TC for paperwork I regularly send emails to that address asking for updates. Always get an answer, and usually get quick service. I'm guessing no one keeps track of phone calls to a particular person, but a string of emails through the main email address on the simple matter of a type rating might get flagged.

[digits_]

If you still have no luck, have you tried applying at a different region?

[complexintentions]

Thanks gents for the suggestions.

@ahramin,

I did email the licensing officer directly to her TC email, and have spoken to her several times on her direct line. It's not so much the inability to contact them, but being told more than once I'll be called back or contacted and then...nothing. And yes, they most certainly have all my correct contact details. I guess I'm old-school, when I say I'm going to do something I do it and naively assume other in our industry are the same. Whether sloppiness or disorganization, the lack of professional courtesy is disgusting. I'll start a string to the generic email.

@digits,

I do appreciate the "service" level is 90 days, but I was told point-blank the updated documents I sent were in a pile on her desk and would be completed "the following week". That was October 9.

I did consider other regions, but the Canadian mailing address I use (family member) is in Pacific and pretty sure a second duplicate application in a different region will just make their heads explode.

I just feel fortunate I no longer need Transport Canada for a license to make a living and dread the day that changes if it does.