Westjet ad.

[Sarge35]

Step 6 FO last pay check take home 1564.79....winning

[180]

Bullshit. That may be the case for a few, but it all comes down to the company being reactive and not proactive. They got themselves into a position that they realized and started to maneuver out of last year. There are a lot of new low-time pilots that need to fly for two years to gain the experience to meet the matrix for the upgrade.

Correct. There ARE lots of new, low time FO’s that need to get some time and experience under their belts before they have the know how and experience to confidently sit left seat in an Encore Q.

Now, let’s talk about the guys who DO meet the matrix.

Bullshit it is not, that many of the guys who meet the matrix aren’t upgrading because they do not yet have their ATPL’s. It’s a Fact. Told to me in person by J.A. And confirmed a dozen times over at FL250 by the guys sitting beside me who haven’t written, or haven’t filed, or are supposedly still waiting to hear back from TC.

[Yycjetdriver]

$62.09/hr +20% esp or whatever it’s gonna be called going forward. I figure my per diems are $15k gross equivalent. They say we still get profit share at ??? rate. Also $7300/yr replacing stock options now. That’s pretty much it.

15k gross per diems, I’ll save the whole per dimes aren’t pay argument but you must be doing a ton of overtime for that. I work a 16 day month full of 3/4/5 day pairings and the odd overtime single day. Typical per diem cheque’s are 600-800$ range at most.

Yeah your single days are killing your per diems. When I did 4x 4day pairings it was typically $900/month so $10800/yr net. Roughly $15k gross ish is how I look at it.
Not gonna get into any debate about per diems being pay. It’s a waste of time.

TO THE OP:
So basically for yr 1 FO it’s roughly $95k/yr gross. I’m yr 5 now and it’s roughly $145k when including all of the above but it’s important to note we have zero pension so saving for retirement is up to each person. Big downside is we pay all our own STD/LTD and it’s crushing our take home pay. I’d say if you’re the type of person that likes a hands off approach to their finances then stay as far away as possible from anything WJ. You will feel broke! But if you have half a brain and can work a simple budget, survive the first year while your esp money is held, then you can do just fine here. But be warned: very low net pay every pay cheque because of money you can’t touch for a year.

Ok that was my bad, missed the gross equivalent part, I apologize. However, 1st year 95k/gross seems far off the mark to me. I was recently at campus and had a discussion with someone in payroll. I kindly asked out of curiosity what’s a 1st year FO make, they said the salary equivalent they file when completing a new hires benefits forms is 56,800$. So even if you add your 15k/gross per diem to that how are you getting to 95k/gross?

[sstaurus]

62.09 x 930 x 1.2 company match + 7.3k option replacement. = 76.5k. (Then add whatever you feel perdiems will be).
If you came from encore, add 14.4k for each of the first 2 yrs.

[Yycjetdriver]

62.09 x 930 x 1.2 company match + 7.3k option replacement. = 76.5k. (Then add whatever you feel perdiems will be).
If you came from encore, add 14.4k for each of the first 2 yrs.

Why don’t you add in the parking benefit, or dry cleaning allowance, maybe the sick time and why not add the cost of an iPad while you’re at it.
You don’t see pilots at other mainline airlines adding their pensions/rrsp matching and other benefits to their salaries, why do Westjet pilots do it? Koolaid maybe?

[rudder]

T4.

That’s it. That’s all.

[jjj]

62.09 x 930 x 1.2 company match + 7.3k option replacement. = 76.5k. (Then add whatever you feel perdiems will be).
If you came from encore, add 14.4k for each of the first 2 yrs.

Why don’t you add in the parking benefit, or dry cleaning allowance, maybe the sick time and why not add the cost of an iPad while you’re at it.
You don’t see pilots at other mainline airlines adding their pensions/rrsp matching and other benefits to their salaries, why do Westjet pilots do it? Koolaid maybe?

This ib an Avcanada conversation that has been going for 20 years...

Like the guy posted above there is nothing else besides what you take home on your paystub and the savings/company match on your paystub.

Without a pension its a very honest way of demonstrating your true compensation without any bias or assumptions.

The taxation is bad but the advantages of getting money up front is economically very powerful.

Its not for everyone and people are free to work elsewhere - especially these days.

JJJ

[ant_321]

RRSP matching shows up on my pay stub. I don’t consider it part of my salary.

[DropTanks]

.

[DropTanks]

.

[skybaron]

Wow. Take home year 6 FO $1600??

What are guys taking home these days on Flat Pay at Air Canada??

[slob driver]

62.09 x 930 x 1.2 company match + 7.3k option replacement. = 76.5k. (Then add whatever you feel perdiems will be).
If you came from encore, add 14.4k for each of the first 2 yrs.

Why don’t you add in the parking benefit, or dry cleaning allowance, maybe the sick time and why not add the cost of an iPad while you’re at it.
You don’t see pilots at other mainline airlines adding their pensions/rrsp matching and other benefits to their salaries, why do Westjet pilots do it? Koolaid maybe?

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/majo ... urvey.html

[plausiblyannonymous]

15k gross per diems, I’ll save the whole per dimes aren’t pay argument but you must be doing a ton of overtime for that. I work a 16 day month full of 3/4/5 day pairings and the odd overtime single day. Typical per diem cheque’s are 600-800$ range at most.

Yeah your single days are killing your per diems. When I did 4x 4day pairings it was typically $900/month so $10800/yr net. Roughly $15k gross ish is how I look at it.
Not gonna get into any debate about per diems being pay. It’s a waste of time.

TO THE OP:
So basically for yr 1 FO it’s roughly $95k/yr gross. I’m yr 5 now and it’s roughly $145k when including all of the above but it’s important to note we have zero pension so saving for retirement is up to each person. Big downside is we pay all our own STD/LTD and it’s crushing our take home pay. I’d say if you’re the type of person that likes a hands off approach to their finances then stay as far away as possible from anything WJ. You will feel broke! But if you have half a brain and can work a simple budget, survive the first year while your esp money is held, then you can do just fine here. But be warned: very low net pay every pay cheque because of money you can’t touch for a year.

Ok that was my bad, missed the gross equivalent part, I apologize. However, 1st year 95k/gross seems far off the mark to me. I was recently at campus and had a discussion with someone in payroll. I kindly asked out of curiosity what’s a 1st year FO make, they said the salary equivalent they file when completing a new hires benefits forms is 56,800$. So even if you add your 15k/gross per diem to that how are you getting to 95k/gross?

That's good to know that I'll be getting a good return then.

[Guilden]

A lot of FO's i've talk to don't wanna upgrade cause they're getting good schedules right now. Captains are working like dogs at Encore and are being asked to do more and more. It's only gonna get worse with flow being reduced and all the folk leaving for AC. Hell I get nervous DH'n on Encore when the captain merely has peach fuzz. Albeit multiple times in CAVOK wx we taxi over and take type 4! Silly or safe? but it cuts into the little time we have to even have a beer with our wings.

[Guilden]

Oh, and I also heard if you bypass your upgrade when you're eligible you can be penalized and held frozen as an FO? Anyone else shed some light on this? A fellow Encore pilot told me this.

[DaveP]

Hi Guilden
I rarely get involved in the mud here but I’ll bite today! In this day and age of collective agreements - I have to ask where on earth you came up with that one (about being penalized/frozen) for not taking an upgrade? Good grief.

I’ll also bite on the schedules - care to shed some light on the pairing stats? Schedule Satisfaction, max days worked (excluding picking up OT by choice) and for fun - how many Encore pilots have left to AC in say, the last 3 months? Let’s do it for February while things are fresh.

I have those numbers (Capt/FO) etc but I’m just curious on your motive or spin on your comments because it certainly doesn’t match your claims unless I’m missing something here. Standing by!

Cheers
Dave

[tailgunner]

DaveP,
The number of Encore pilots moving to AC in the last few months has everything to do with AC’s hiring plan and does not represent the wish or yearning of Encore pilots to leave for AC. The numbers of applications at AC from Encore is staggering in regards to the number of pilots at Encore. But your assertion was a very nice attempt at spin.
Cheers.

[Dry Guy]

AC's basically only hiring Express pilots and people with Boeing/Airbus experience right now. As DaveP implies, Encore is currently no longer the route to AC. Best to avoid it if that's your goal.

[Hangry]

DaveP,
The number of Encore pilots moving to AC in the last few months has everything to do with AC’s hiring plan and does not represent the wish or yearning of Encore pilots to leave for AC. The numbers of applications at AC from Encore is staggering in regards to the number of pilots at Encore. But your assertion was a very nice attempt at spin.
Cheers.

Lol no kidding. That kool aid must be too thick to even swallow! Good grief

[DaveP]

Hi
To again, simply quote before you start down the slag path:

“It's only gonna get worse with flow being reduced and all the folk leaving for AC”

If it’s spin then where are the numbers from Encore?

If you can’t post facts then I dare say the pot is calling the kettle black with reference to spin? Or koolaid or whatever you want to call it.

Scheduling satisfaction at Encore was 88 percent (capt/fo) with 12 days off as an average in YYC and 87/86 percent in YYZ with 12 days off for Capt and 17 average days off for FO’s.

I went back and validated my resignation list and it doesn’t support what Tail or Guilden claim.


Cheers