Westjet ad.

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rudder
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by rudder »

T4.

That’s it. That’s all.
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jjj
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by jjj »

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:13 am
sstaurus wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:58 am
62.09 x 930 x 1.2 company match + 7.3k option replacement. = 76.5k. (Then add whatever you feel perdiems will be).
If you came from encore, add 14.4k for each of the first 2 yrs.
Why don’t you add in the parking benefit, or dry cleaning allowance, maybe the sick time and why not add the cost of an iPad while you’re at it.
You don’t see pilots at other mainline airlines adding their pensions/rrsp matching and other benefits to their salaries, why do Westjet pilots do it? Koolaid maybe?
This ib an Avcanada conversation that has been going for 20 years...

Like the guy posted above there is nothing else besides what you take home on your paystub and the savings/company match on your paystub.

Without a pension its a very honest way of demonstrating your true compensation without any bias or assumptions.

The taxation is bad but the advantages of getting money up front is economically very powerful.

Its not for everyone and people are free to work elsewhere - especially these days.

JJJ
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ant_321
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by ant_321 »

RRSP matching shows up on my pay stub. I don’t consider it part of my salary.
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DropTanks
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by DropTanks »

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Last edited by DropTanks on Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

DropTanks
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by DropTanks »

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Last edited by DropTanks on Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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skybaron
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by skybaron »

Wow. Take home year 6 FO $1600?? :shock:

What are guys taking home these days on Flat Pay at Air Canada??
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slob driver
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by slob driver »

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:13 am
sstaurus wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:58 am
62.09 x 930 x 1.2 company match + 7.3k option replacement. = 76.5k. (Then add whatever you feel perdiems will be).
If you came from encore, add 14.4k for each of the first 2 yrs.
Why don’t you add in the parking benefit, or dry cleaning allowance, maybe the sick time and why not add the cost of an iPad while you’re at it.
You don’t see pilots at other mainline airlines adding their pensions/rrsp matching and other benefits to their salaries, why do Westjet pilots do it? Koolaid maybe?
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/majo ... urvey.html
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:50 am
DropTanks wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:45 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:20 pm


15k gross per diems, I’ll save the whole per dimes aren’t pay argument but you must be doing a ton of overtime for that. I work a 16 day month full of 3/4/5 day pairings and the odd overtime single day. Typical per diem cheque’s are 600-800$ range at most.
Yeah your single days are killing your per diems. When I did 4x 4day pairings it was typically $900/month so $10800/yr net. Roughly $15k gross ish is how I look at it.
Not gonna get into any debate about per diems being pay. It’s a waste of time.

TO THE OP:
So basically for yr 1 FO it’s roughly $95k/yr gross. I’m yr 5 now and it’s roughly $145k when including all of the above but it’s important to note we have zero pension so saving for retirement is up to each person. Big downside is we pay all our own STD/LTD and it’s crushing our take home pay. I’d say if you’re the type of person that likes a hands off approach to their finances then stay as far away as possible from anything WJ. You will feel broke! But if you have half a brain and can work a simple budget, survive the first year while your esp money is held, then you can do just fine here. But be warned: very low net pay every pay cheque because of money you can’t touch for a year.
Ok that was my bad, missed the gross equivalent part, I apologize. However, 1st year 95k/gross seems far off the mark to me. I was recently at campus and had a discussion with someone in payroll. I kindly asked out of curiosity what’s a 1st year FO make, they said the salary equivalent they file when completing a new hires benefits forms is 56,800$. So even if you add your 15k/gross per diem to that how are you getting to 95k/gross?
That's good to know that I'll be getting a good return then.
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Guilden
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by Guilden »

A lot of FO's i've talk to don't wanna upgrade cause they're getting good schedules right now. Captains are working like dogs at Encore and are being asked to do more and more. It's only gonna get worse with flow being reduced and all the folk leaving for AC. Hell I get nervous DH'n on Encore when the captain merely has peach fuzz. Albeit multiple times in CAVOK wx we taxi over and take type 4! Silly or safe? ;) but it cuts into the little time we have to even have a beer with our wings.
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Guilden
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by Guilden »

Oh, and I also heard if you bypass your upgrade when you're eligible you can be penalized and held frozen as an FO? Anyone else shed some light on this? A fellow Encore pilot told me this.
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DaveP
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by DaveP »

Hi Guilden
I rarely get involved in the mud here but I’ll bite today! In this day and age of collective agreements - I have to ask where on earth you came up with that one (about being penalized/frozen) for not taking an upgrade? Good grief.

I’ll also bite on the schedules - care to shed some light on the pairing stats? Schedule Satisfaction, max days worked (excluding picking up OT by choice) and for fun - how many Encore pilots have left to AC in say, the last 3 months? Let’s do it for February while things are fresh.

I have those numbers (Capt/FO) etc but I’m just curious on your motive or spin on your comments because it certainly doesn’t match your claims unless I’m missing something here. Standing by!

Cheers
Dave
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tailgunner
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by tailgunner »

DaveP,
The number of Encore pilots moving to AC in the last few months has everything to do with AC’s hiring plan and does not represent the wish or yearning of Encore pilots to leave for AC. The numbers of applications at AC from Encore is staggering in regards to the number of pilots at Encore. But your assertion was a very nice attempt at spin.
Cheers.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by Dry Guy »

AC's basically only hiring Express pilots and people with Boeing/Airbus experience right now. As DaveP implies, Encore is currently no longer the route to AC. Best to avoid it if that's your goal.
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Hangry
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by Hangry »

tailgunner wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:01 am
DaveP,
The number of Encore pilots moving to AC in the last few months has everything to do with AC’s hiring plan and does not represent the wish or yearning of Encore pilots to leave for AC. The numbers of applications at AC from Encore is staggering in regards to the number of pilots at Encore. But your assertion was a very nice attempt at spin.
Cheers.
Lol no kidding. That kool aid must be too thick to even swallow! Good grief
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DaveP
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by DaveP »

Hi
To again, simply quote before you start down the slag path:

“It's only gonna get worse with flow being reduced and all the folk leaving for AC”

If it’s spin then where are the numbers from Encore?

If you can’t post facts then I dare say the pot is calling the kettle black with reference to spin? Or koolaid or whatever you want to call it.

Scheduling satisfaction at Encore was 88 percent (capt/fo) with 12 days off as an average in YYC and 87/86 percent in YYZ with 12 days off for Capt and 17 average days off for FO’s.

I went back and validated my resignation list and it doesn’t support what Tail or Guilden claim.


Cheers
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98 Corolla
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by 98 Corolla »

Wow flow is reduced too? Why would anyone go to Encore with no chance at AC and a long wait for WJ? Thanks for the heads up.
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moe
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by moe »

Further context...
I am top scale Captain.
Last 2week pay....

$1700.

Bam!
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Squid
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by Squid »

assuming u put away 20% and taxed on the match plus the usual cpp and ui at this time of year because without those deductions by my math is over 5k takehome every pay is that right with a marginal tax rate of 48%?
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moe
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by moe »

Yes and...
Try to be happy spending $700/mo on std/ltd.
Good times
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Hudson90
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by Hudson90 »

I find it very interesting theses days with regards to the new sense of entitlement, my stick is bigger and better then yours type of mentality. I do not paint everyone in this new light, but it’s much different from when I started. I believe there’s always room for improvement on many fronts in today’s industry as we see it. Avcanada used to be a place to meet people and find ways to help a fellow pilot with a technical question or interview process to land that desired job. The half truths and company bashing is mind boggling. The term Professional in our profession starts from within.



Cheers
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Squid
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by Squid »

I agree with jjj above but I’d like to know what you clearEd with onex since u are a 20% guy moe
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DropTanks
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by DropTanks »

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Last edited by DropTanks on Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

moe
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by moe »

10000 gross
1700 net
$213 /hr


20% esp
No per diem
No extra flying
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flashheart
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by flashheart »

DaveP,

I'll give you a qualitative statistic about WJ.

When I do run into WJ crew, they generally look bagged, are carrying enough bags that they look like they are part of some sort of caravan and are generally found sitting around airports killing time thanks to what I assume is unproductive flying.

Without proper protections, this is the result.

Not saying AC is as good as it should be, WJ is inevitably behind due to the lack of overseas flying which naturally is productive.

You guys can chase T4s all you want but when I see friends of mine at WJ that have gained weight and have aged 10 years in the span of 3 years I can tell you that my observation is that you guys are way way behind.

If you are 23, you can tolerate this for a while but it is not sustainable in my opinion. Look at US carriers, some that are entirely domestic and look at their schedules. They not only make more but work way less thanks to proper scheduling protections. But most importantly my friends at those companies don't look like crap.
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altiplano
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Re: Westjet ad.

Post by altiplano »

Taxes in this country are part of the problem.

You guys would be good to get that into a registered account or something to avoid the tax on money you're putting away... I guess it works out end of year, depending your strategy, but still nicer to have the money now instead of next spring.
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