RCAF reserve as a second job

[JcPd_flyer]

Sounds good.. nobody ever lost anything from trying! If you don’t mind, let us know how things go.

Best of luck in these trying times !

Got pretty much the same reply. No advantage applying as an airline pilot. I honestly am confused and disappointed since their gov website really gave me an impression that they are actively looking to recruit us but it's not as exciting as advertised. They also asked if I'm interested in joining the CF full time but not for me...
Thanks for other suggestions, I will look into cadet program and other CF programs as well.

Thank you all for your time!

[McKinley]

Sounds good.. nobody ever lost anything from trying! If you don’t mind, let us know how things go.

Best of luck in these trying times !

Got pretty much the same reply. No advantage applying as an airline pilot. I honestly am confused and disappointed since their gov website really gave me an impression that they are actively looking to recruit us but it's not as exciting as advertised. They also asked if I'm interested in joining the CF full time but not for me...
Thanks for other suggestions, I will look into cadet program and other CF programs as well.

Thank you all for your time!

Disappointing and confusing ( and maybe asinine?) sums it up!

I hoped you’d have a better experience.

Stay positive out there

[SAR_YQQ]

Apologies for necro-post.

If you want to fly in the RCAF, you don’t get there by joining as a Reservist. We aren’t screaming for pilots who can’t deploy, can’t be on the road for 14 days straight, can’t carry the pager on duty for the month. Air Reserve members fill roles that are M-F in nature - operations, support or clerical. There are very limited opportunities for full time employment in the Air Reserve, such that you would be hired to only work 12 days a month. This is perfect to leverage your previous experience as a CAF operator to run the Ops desk or be a CASARA representative.

I looked on the Air Canada website to see if they would hire me part-time and was disappointed that there were no Pilot positions, even though they were screaming for pilots (pre COVID).

[Tanker299]

While Air Canada may not have wanted you, there are several smaller operators who had you had the qualifications might have looked at you. Just like the CF attitude, not a lot of operators want x military guys. The Canadian military and flying are severely disconnected. Maybe one day we can all just get along as pilots not civilian or military pilot....(cf pilots are like cops, they have been told they are special) There are lots of jobs that the military takes real world qualifications, like a Dr, preacher, lawyer etc... I know x rcaf guys who fly part time for the CF and full time at AC. I did my time in the CF, not as a pilot... I am glad I never flew for them... with mottos like “if it’s stupid but it works, it’s not stupid”. Most also barely touch the controls, they are lucky if they fly 300h a year. This is also why they are told they are special, they are very inexperienced as they never have their but in the seat. The attitude that Oozes from most of these guys should be more then enough to keep you away. Your experience would be a threat to these guys and they would treat you that way too. If they hired civilian pilots they would have to change too much and they could never handle that.

[ayseven]

I can clearly see that our field of aviation can easily descend into childishness. There always seem to be people who cannot respect people for who they are, but what they fly, or who they fly for. Some of us just want to fly; nothing more really. This original poster thought the same thing.

[TT1900]

While Air Canada may not have wanted you, there are several smaller operators who had you had the qualifications might have looked at you. Just like the CF attitude, not a lot of operators want x military guys. The Canadian military and flying are severely disconnected. Maybe one day we can all just get along as pilots not civilian or military pilot....(cf pilots are like cops, they have been told they are special) There are lots of jobs that the military takes real world qualifications, like a Dr, preacher, lawyer etc... I know x rcaf guys who fly part time for the CF and full time at AC. I did my time in the CF, not as a pilot... I am glad I never flew for them... with mottos like “if it’s stupid but it works, it’s not stupid”. Most also barely touch the controls, they are lucky if they fly 300h a year. This is also why they are told they are special, they are very inexperienced as they never have their but in the seat. The attitude that Oozes from most of these guys should be more then enough to keep you away. Your experience would be a threat to these guys and they would treat you that way too. If they hired civilian pilots they would have to change too much and they could never handle that.

Lol. So, how long ago did you wash out?

Please define “at the controls”? Confirm that you believe experience is solely a function of seat time? Never heard that “motto”.

I thought all pilots were told they were special. You must be doing it wrong.

I will agree that the odd guy has an attitude problem, but that’s certainly not unique to the military. I think most are cognizant and respectful of other skill-sets. After all, the RCAF does contract several flying courses to civilian companies - helicopter mountain flying for example.

At the end of the day I don’t really care what you fly or how you fly it. It’s just a job and there’s way more to life.

[TT1900]

I can clearly see that our field of aviation can easily descend into childishness. There always seem to be people who cannot respect people for who they are, but what they fly, or who they fly for. Some of us just want to fly; nothing more really. This original poster thought the same thing.

Too true. Contrary to what was posted above, most if not all of my former co-workers would have been happy to welcome a part-timer with civilian background into the mix.

[Kejidog]

You may as well give up on the cadet program. This summer’s training is cancelled. No gliding in the fall. And next year’s programs will more than likely be chopped too. My son got his glider wings las summer and had the ppl scholarship awarded to him only to have everything end. And anything we’ve heard is nothing is going to be done for them. Funny 17 year olds can work at tims or wally world but it’s too unsafe to get together for 8weeks and fly. Another shit show courtesy of fear and bureaucracy.

I wonder what they are going to do With the allocated money? Some kids were. Counting on this training to Jump start a university degree.

[Tanker299]

In order to wash out one must first apply. Being a pilot in the CF is secondary to to being an officer. I have a CD, jump wings and do not wish to be a pointy head but thanks. Time at the controls means just that, actual logable time. If you have 20 years and 2000 hours your about as skilled as a PPL pilot. Most guys I know rarely have over 5000 hours. 20-30 years and 5000h..... that is not a lot of flight experience. But it's the place that owns the planes and the type of planes that matters, actual experience that's not required. The civil training is function of cost and because they can't retain people. The experience well is not very deep. You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

[AuxBatOn]

In order to wash out one must first apply. Being a pilot in the CF is secondary to to being an officer. I have a CD, jump wings and do not wish to be a pointy head but thanks. Time at the controls means just that, actual logable time. If you have 20 years and 2000 hours your about as skilled as a PPL pilot. Most guys I know rarely have over 5000 hours. 20-30 years and 5000h..... that is not a lot of flight experience. But it's the place that owns the planes and the type of planes that matters, actual experience that's not required. The civil training is function of cost and because they can't retain people. The experience well is not very deep. You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

[TT1900]

In order to wash out one must first apply. Being a pilot in the CF is secondary to to being an officer. I have a CD, jump wings and do not wish to be a pointy head but thanks. Time at the controls means just that, actual logable time. If you have 20 years and 2000 hours your about as skilled as a PPL pilot. Most guys I know rarely have over 5000 hours. 20-30 years and 5000h..... that is not a lot of flight experience. But it's the place that owns the planes and the type of planes that matters, actual experience that's not required. The civil training is function of cost and because they can't retain people. The experience well is not very deep. You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

You certainly offer one definition of experience and time at the controls.

I’d suggest “experience” is much more than just an hours total. I also don’t view time at the controls and logable time as the same.

It’s kind of like jump wings and a CD. You could have been an army cadet who did two weeks in Trenton followed by 12 years CIC. Or, you could have been with CSOR throughout the past decade. Nothing wrong with the former, but a vastly different experience despite the same quals on paper.

[SAR_YQQ]

You should go to the enlisted folk and ask them. If your a pointy head I can see how you have been excluded from that conversation.

I don’t see how a conversation with a non-flyer is pertinent to how I do my job. I’ll grab the next crunchie I see at Timmies and ask him his thoughts about my mad skillz. No doubt he/she will give the normal deer in the headlights look, mumble a few words and say nothing else. All the enlisted folk that I fly with currently have an excellent relationship with me both in and out of the plane - we call each other out and respect each other’s aviator skill set.

Nobody cares about flying hours - except those who don’t have the bare minimum for an ATPL. The Korean Airlines crew that smashed into the seawall at KSFO had over 10k hours for each seat.

[Zaibatsu]

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

There are 2000 hour PPLs out there who are capable of things you never will be. One with decades of experience but low hours? You’d be surprised. A PPL-H with R-22 time would think he’d have died and gone to heaven with such ridiculously overpowered machines like the Chinook and Griffin.

The biggest risk of any of those activities are the pilots themselves. Come on, the RCAF hasn’t faced an equivalent adversary since WWII. When was the last time an RCAF plane was even hit by enemy fire? More pilots get the clap than are shot at.

And is there any sort of QC for military activities? I lived near Cold Lake for years and knew lots of people on base and the fuckups that were spoke of that would result in immediate firing in the civilian world were almost unbelievable. Who cares if the bombs miss. The USAF has made friendly fire a national pastime. We simply don’t drop enough bombs for it to matter.

You can’t train experience. You can’t simulate experience. And without experience you are rigidly clinging to SOPs until the ink runs dry and then you are panicking and overreacting. Your 20 year 2000 hour PPL will be like that and so will your 20 year 2000 hour military pilot. I was in Cold Lake in 2008 when that Hawk trainer crashed in MJ and got the inside scoop. Couldn’t do a real forced approach right over the airport when the instructor was supposed to be training the student for a forced approach. The accident investigation reads like I describe. Clinging to SOPs and then rushing out where angels fear to tread throwing all the rules out the window as he kept panicking and changing his mind rather than committing to an action and injuring his unprepared student in an low altitude ejection when he realized he screwed up.

You need quantity to have quality.

[iflyforpie]

BS.

I flew 200 hours a year for years. The experience I gained has proven invaluable to my career.

I lost my engine on takeoff at 500 hours total time and made it back to the airport. It was because of the superior training by ex-military pilots that allowed me to do so.

There’s far more to experience than hours and not all hours are equal.

Like SAR-YQQ says, after you have your licenses, who cares? 10,000 hours on autopilot, what are you going to learn from that?

You’re also pretty disrespectful to our men and women in uniform. Nobody knows what they will face in combat or where they will go. That’s why our military needs the best.

No, a PPL couldn’t do a military job. You want to hear the equivalent? Go watch a CASARA exercise or a fly in. It’s a dog’s breakfast. I make it a point to avoid airports and airspace with those activities going on. The worst are PPLs who think they are gods gift to flying but are worse than student pilots.

Everywhere I’ve been the military have been top notch. Not perfect but nobody is. Way better than almost any PPL could ever hope to be.

[AuxBatOn]

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

There are 2000 hour PPLs out there who are capable of things you never will be. One with decades of experience but low hours? You’d be surprised. A PPL-H with R-22 time would think he’d have died and gone to heaven with such ridiculously overpowered machines like the Chinook and Griffin.

The biggest risk of any of those activities are the pilots themselves. Come on, the RCAF hasn’t faced an equivalent adversary since WWII. When was the last time an RCAF plane was even hit by enemy fire? More pilots get the clap than are shot at.

And is there any sort of QC for military activities? I lived near Cold Lake for years and knew lots of people on base and the fuckups that were spoke of that would result in immediate firing in the civilian world were almost unbelievable. Who cares if the bombs miss. The USAF has made friendly fire a national pastime. We simply don’t drop enough bombs for it to matter.

You can’t train experience. You can’t simulate experience. And without experience you are rigidly clinging to SOPs until the ink runs dry and then you are panicking and overreacting. Your 20 year 2000 hour PPL will be like that and so will your 20 year 2000 hour military pilot. I was in Cold Lake in 2008 when that Hawk trainer crashed in MJ and got the inside scoop. Couldn’t do a real forced approach right over the airport when the instructor was supposed to be training the student for a forced approach. The accident investigation reads like I describe. Clinging to SOPs and then rushing out where angels fear to tread throwing all the rules out the window as he kept panicking and changing his mind rather than committing to an action and injuring his unprepared student in an low altitude ejection when he realized he screwed up.

You need quantity to have quality.

We lost a Chinook to enemy fire in Afghanistan. Herc guys get routinely shot at and I was shot at more than my fair share.

A weapon missing its target is not necessarily the pilot’s @#$! up. There are weapons failures, software malfunctions, etc.

The QC is through thorough debriefs from IPs (a typical 1.5 hr sortie will yield a 2-hour debrief, going into the minutia of every aspects of the flight), multiple standards rides from standards pilots (there are at least 3 per year), our flight safety system, etc.

I would be curious to hear what the fuckups that would get you fired at a civilian company and from who you heard them.

[TT1900]

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a multi-national mission of 30+ aircraft overseas employing tons of different weapons on targets with high collateral damage hazard safely.

It would be entertaining seeing a PPL lead a formation of Chinooks and Griffon approach a hot LZ in high density altitude while being shot at with a heavy load.

I’ll take quality over quantity anytime.

There are 2000 hour PPLs out there who are capable of things you never will be. One with decades of experience but low hours? You’d be surprised. A PPL-H with R-22 time would think he’d have died and gone to heaven with such ridiculously overpowered machines like the Chinook and Griffin.

The biggest risk of any of those activities are the pilots themselves. Come on, the RCAF hasn’t faced an equivalent adversary since WWII. When was the last time an RCAF plane was even hit by enemy fire? More pilots get the clap than are shot at.

And is there any sort of QC for military activities? I lived near Cold Lake for years and knew lots of people on base and the fuckups that were spoke of that would result in immediate firing in the civilian world were almost unbelievable. Who cares if the bombs miss. The USAF has made friendly fire a national pastime. We simply don’t drop enough bombs for it to matter.

You can’t train experience. You can’t simulate experience. And without experience you are rigidly clinging to SOPs until the ink runs dry and then you are panicking and overreacting. Your 20 year 2000 hour PPL will be like that and so will your 20 year 2000 hour military pilot. I was in Cold Lake in 2008 when that Hawk trainer crashed in MJ and got the inside scoop. Couldn’t do a real forced approach right over the airport when the instructor was supposed to be training the student for a forced approach. The accident investigation reads like I describe. Clinging to SOPs and then rushing out where angels fear to tread throwing all the rules out the window as he kept panicking and changing his mind rather than committing to an action and injuring his unprepared student in an low altitude ejection when he realized he screwed up.

You need quantity to have quality.

Korea wasn’t peer adversary? You sure? May want to read a book or two.

You should ask some Tac-hel guys about Afghanistan, Iraq, and Mali. Turns out there are lots of people living in those places with guns that don’t like helicopters. I’m sure they’re nice people though, so do the civilized thing and just file noise complaints. While you’re at it, compliment the Griffon pilots on their hideously overpowered machines. I’m sure they’ll agree.

So being near a military base gave you the “insider scoop” (Hint: there isn’t one. Report is public) to a crash at another base? Sounds legit. Yes, mistakes were made, but last I checked tens of thousands of hours doesn’t stop such things; SFO sea-wall, Air France into the drink, Air Canada in Halifax, and those were all flyable machines too, unlike that Hawk.

My sisters, brother in law’s, third-cousin’s, uncle’s, house-keeper told me the AC-Transat deal will go through, btw.

While 99% of your post was ignorant BS, I do agree that experience can not be trained nor simulated. Pilots are only as good as the mental toolbox they possess whether they have 200hrs, 2000hrs, or 20000hrs. Quality of hours is equally, if not more, important than quantity in developing those skills.

[DanJ]

Even CIC seems to be a problem to get in to. My brother in law started volunteering with a local air cadet sqn a couple years ago, ahead of his daughter's 12 birthday, when she planned to join. He was an air cadet growing up and joined the CIC (then called the CIL), and was in for 8 years. (As an aside, he wanted to join the regular Air Force, but his eyes weren't up to snuff, but one of his buddies did, and just retired last year after commanding the Snowbirds a few years ago). He did 8 years before he decided on a career to settle down in and get married and whatever. So he left the CIC.

When he started volunteering, I casually mentioned if he could join again, to which he didn't know. Then a couple months later, he posts a picture at the Remembrance Day parade and commented "With the sqn at Remembrance Day, hopefully back in uniform for next year's parade". That was 2018, and even though he has gone through the process, done the testing, and they dug up his old records and confirming his service time, he still hasn't got back in. His squadron has a position for him as well. Now with COVID, everything seems to have stopped. Like any other youth program, getting adults involved is always a tough time anymore, I'm surprised cadets is so slow with this.

[mijbil]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

[Ash Ketchum]

Does anyone know if the RCAF is currently hiring new regular force pilots? I am seriously considering leaving commercial aviation and would love the stability of a RCAF job. I have applied a few months ago but have heard nothing yet.

[GoHomeLeg]

A grand total of 9 pilots have rejoined the RCAF. 5 reservists and 4 as reg force. Either it's the admin/recruiting that's a problem (that's my guess) and more are in the pipeline or no-one wants a 100K+ job in these times or it's something else. For those considering it, perhaps give someone who has just left a call and see what it is that causes people to leave before age 60. It might be 'something else' after all. It is the case for me since I know I won't we doing a thing for at least a year. Having a DB pension has certainly influenced my decision but I know of others who left (pre pandemic) with no pension.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-BB18Lt6b

Unlike many airbases in the US where you can live in or close to a decent size city, Canadian airbases are all out in the middle of nowhere.

https://youtu.be/XvHOLKy5iVI