IATA Warning for Canadian Aviation Sector

[Old fella]

It all depends on where you live, your age bracket and so forth......
Small town, older people = bunker in
Large cities, Younger people = time to fly again......

School started (less time for all except working people with no kids or retired I guess), COVID spiking up in Canada and abroad. Yes, I am sure people are a lot more inclined to travel now than 2 months ago...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/flight ... -1.5729643

[Gilles Hudicourt]

https://images.cdn.centreforaviation.co ... antine.png

[twa22]

Has anyone ever stopped to think that covid itself is more then just about the virus now... (hint, hint...)

The death rate has progressively gotten lower as the months have passed and considerably more testing has occurred. The death rate worldwide currently sits somewhere around 3.1% and is likely to be MUCH lower now and when this pandemic is over, given that there are so many people who likely have had it without ever experiencing one symptom... remember, in the beginning, the death rate was as high as 9 or 10%

Do I believe in the blanket travel ban and quarantine? I did, in the beginning, when all of this started, and doctors did not know a whole lot about the virus, how to treat it/control it which led to healthcare system being overwhelmed in many countries. I was a believer in wearing a mask right from the beginning, not because a doctor told me, but because in my mind, my logic told me that a) wearing a mask should stop more of my micro droplets, even if it's not 100% proof, it's better then nothing, and b) because maybe it would help incoming droplets from others not make it into my repository system... and what were all our top doctors saying? "yea, you don't need a mask" Uhhhhhh ok? Even when you have a simple cold, wearing a mask will do a little something. I'm sure there's a reason why in certain cultures, wearing a mask is common practice when you have the sniffles.

Alright now we got it somewhat under control, we have eased restrictions, and cases are spiking again... that's normal, but with proper procedures and people actually following the rules somewhat, we have been able to return to some normal within our country, and we will continue to do so even when cases do rise again. It can be managed, so why can't we do that with travel from outside? Why can't we do what the UK or other European countries do? Put proper measures in place, allow travelers from certain countries that have covid cases under control to not have to undergo 14 day quarantine and, we must, test, test,test... no one is saying you have to wait at the airport for your result.... make specific quarantine transport and hotels for a few nights until the results are back, then repeat again. You have 2 negative tests? Off you go... this 14 day quarantine/self isolation, not just in Canada, but other parts of the world, is just plain silly, it really is .

My example is very simplistic, but i'm sure you get the gist. The rules can be relaxed with proper measures in places

[AuxBatOn]

..and that's based on your own wide-reaching survey you have conducted recently? Or just a random statement?

Survey on hardship related to US/Canada border closure: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/one-in-fi ... -1.5048795

Canadians want a vaccine before travelling: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5672571

Nice try but that survey was from the beginning of July. A little outdated in 'Covid World'

If you want something more recent... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump- ... -1.5730806

90% of Canadians support the measures...

[twa22]

Survey on hardship related to US/Canada border closure: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/one-in-fi ... -1.5048795

Canadians want a vaccine before travelling: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5672571

Nice try but that survey was from the beginning of July. A little outdated in 'Covid World'

If you want something more recent... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump- ... -1.5730806

90% of Canadians support the measures...

While I understand that the US is one our biggest trading partners, and lots of people go their to vacation, the US shouldn't be the sole deciding factor with regards to keeping borders closed and having a mandatory 14 day isolation period. Yea, I agree that keeping the US border closed isn't a bad idea (or at least if we open it, there are strict measures in place), but we could surely open up borders with other countries with the proper measures put in place

But anyways who am I to preach, why listen to science and facts when hysteria works better

[AuxBatOn]

Nice try but that survey was from the beginning of July. A little outdated in 'Covid World'

If you want something more recent... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump- ... -1.5730806

90% of Canadians support the measures...

While I understand that the US is one our biggest trading partners, and lots of people go their to vacation, the US shouldn't be the sole deciding factor with regards to keeping borders closed and having a mandatory 14 day isolation period. Yea, I agree that keeping the US border closed isn't a bad idea (or at least if we open it, there are strict measures in place), but we could surely open up borders with other countries with the proper measures put in place

But anyways who am I to preach, why listen to science and facts when hysteria works better

Please bring forth this science you are talking about.

[twa22]

If you want something more recent... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump- ... -1.5730806

90% of Canadians support the measures...

While I understand that the US is one our biggest trading partners, and lots of people go their to vacation, the US shouldn't be the sole deciding factor with regards to keeping borders closed and having a mandatory 14 day isolation period. Yea, I agree that keeping the US border closed isn't a bad idea (or at least if we open it, there are strict measures in place), but we could surely open up borders with other countries with the proper measures put in place

But anyways who am I to preach, why listen to science and facts when hysteria works better

Please bring forth this science you are talking about.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said science, but the fact that one can put measures in place to avoid the 14 day quarantine is pretty obvious. Perform testing within a few days, if you receive 2 negative tests in the span of 5 days, I see no reason for the need to quarantine, what good would it do at that point? Anyways, wanting to keep the 14 day rule affects you as much as it does me... I'm happy I still have a job, somehow... but this quarantining is not making life easy for anyone, especially us pilots

[Wammer]

While I understand that the US is one our biggest trading partners, and lots of people go their to vacation, the US shouldn't be the sole deciding factor with regards to keeping borders closed and having a mandatory 14 day isolation period. Yea, I agree that keeping the US border closed isn't a bad idea (or at least if we open it, there are strict measures in place), but we could surely open up borders with other countries with the proper measures put in place

But anyways who am I to preach, why listen to science and facts when hysteria works better

Please bring forth this science you are talking about.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said science, but the fact that one can put measures in place to avoid the 14 day quarantine is pretty obvious. Perform testing within a few days, if you receive 2 negative tests in the span of 5 days, I see no reason for the need to quarantine, what good would it do at that point? Anyways, wanting to keep the 14 day rule affects you as much as it does me... I'm happy I still have a job, somehow... but this quarantining is not making life easy for anyone, especially us pilots

Been saying this exact thing for weeks to anyone that’ll listen. I genuinely don’t understand why we wouldn’t put this in place. We’ve been led to believe that there’s no shortage of testing kits available, so it shouldn’t be an issue. People are way more likely to be able to afford to tack on 4 or 5 days to the end of their vacation than two weeks. Guarantee we would see a huge uptick in travel

[AuxBatOn]

Please bring forth this science you are talking about.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said science, but the fact that one can put measures in place to avoid the 14 day quarantine is pretty obvious. Perform testing within a few days, if you receive 2 negative tests in the span of 5 days, I see no reason for the need to quarantine, what good would it do at that point? Anyways, wanting to keep the 14 day rule affects you as much as it does me... I'm happy I still have a job, somehow... but this quarantining is not making life easy for anyone, especially us pilots

Been saying this exact thing for weeks to anyone that’ll listen. I genuinely don’t understand why we wouldn’t put this in place. We’ve been led to believe that there’s no shortage of testing kits available, so it shouldn’t be an issue. People are way more likely to be able to afford to tack on 4 or 5 days to the end of their vacation than two weeks. Guarantee we would see a huge uptick in travel

Whether it is 5 days isolated (waiting for test results) or 14 days, having that tome off will make people shy away from travel. On top of that, how do you deal with the logistics of the testing? Who administers it? Who pays for it (it is now for leisure - do we pay for foreign nationals?) Where is it administered (do we allow foreign nationals to break self-isolation to visit a test center)? How do we enforce it (we have a hard enough time enforcing quarantines for the limited amount of people travelling)?

Is the pain of organizing the administration worth the gains that would materialize if such a program was to be launched? Would people accept waiting 5 days for results? Would it really increase travel?

[twa22]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said science, but the fact that one can put measures in place to avoid the 14 day quarantine is pretty obvious. Perform testing within a few days, if you receive 2 negative tests in the span of 5 days, I see no reason for the need to quarantine, what good would it do at that point? Anyways, wanting to keep the 14 day rule affects you as much as it does me... I'm happy I still have a job, somehow... but this quarantining is not making life easy for anyone, especially us pilots

Been saying this exact thing for weeks to anyone that’ll listen. I genuinely don’t understand why we wouldn’t put this in place. We’ve been led to believe that there’s no shortage of testing kits available, so it shouldn’t be an issue. People are way more likely to be able to afford to tack on 4 or 5 days to the end of their vacation than two weeks. Guarantee we would see a huge uptick in travel

Whether it is 5 days isolated (waiting for test results) or 14 days, having that tome off will make people shy away from travel. On top of that, how do you deal with the logistics of the testing? Who administers it? Who pays for it (it is now for leisure - do we pay for foreign nationals?) Where is it administered (do we allow foreign nationals to break self-isolation to visit a test center)? How do we enforce it (we have a hard enough time enforcing quarantines for the limited amount of people travelling)?

Is the pain of organizing the administration worth the gains that would materialize if such a program was to be launched? Would people accept waiting 5 days for results? Would it really increase travel?

Whether it is 5 days isolated (waiting for test results) or 14 days, having that tome off will make people shy away from travel.

5 days is A HUGE DIFFERENCE compared to 14. I can promise you with certainty that the general population will be more inclined to tack on 5 days to their vacation versus 14, I know I would.

On top of that, how do you deal with the logistics of the testing? Who administers it? Who pays for it (it is now for leisure - do we pay for foreign nationals?)

First off, testing results do not take 5 days... they may take that long if there are few testing facilities and lots of tests to be administered, with not enough staff to get through all the samples, hence the 5 hour wait times in line now, and the couple days to get your result... if public health would allow for privatized testing, then maybe there wouldn't be as many backlogs.

Ok so let's say we do allow for privatized testing, and travel picks up, and then even more testing will have to occur. Fine, you may still end up at up to 5 days to receive results, but it's still better then 14.

As for how do you administer it and who pays for it? As has been mentioned, both Air Canada and Westjet have offered to pay for tests, and i'm sure they can deal with the logistics of it... even if it means adding x amount in costs to their operation, I would think the risk vs reward would likely pay off here, hence probably why they are offering to do this...

How do we enforce it (we have a hard enough time enforcing quarantines for the limited amount of people travelling)?

It's 2020... they can track your phone, OR, they can even put a simple colored wristband on your arm, that way if you go out in public and people see your wristband, you get fined. Ok you cut the wristband off your arm sure, but do you really think people are that willing to risk a fine/imprisonment?

Is the pain of organizing the administration worth the gains that would materialize if such a program was to be launched? Would people accept waiting 5 days for results? Would it really increase travel?

Yes, because a) it would help our industry, which i'm sure is something that matters to you (because it does to me and probably 95% of pilots out there) and b) people want to travel no matter which way you slice it. Are people scared to do it because of varying factors? Yes... but with the right measures in place, i'm sure opinions and mindsets would be swayed, it's human psychology after all...