Sad state of affairs......

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Expatriated
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Sad state of affairs......

Post by Expatriated »

The sad truth (and state of the Canadian airline industry) is that the majority of people flying right now go on price alone. If they need to get from Toronto to Vancouver on a Monday; and company X is $20 cheaper than company Y......they'll choose Y. Plain and simple. It's a whole new class of passenger......cutoff jeans and all....

This isn't everyone, but the majority. Unfortunately, we the flight crews are the ones that suffer with low wages and poor working conditions. When the pool of qualifed pilots dries up in the near future (and it will) the wages will increase as will the working conditions for all of us across the board.

Until then, he with the lowest expenses will make the profit at the expense of the employees. The funny thing is that everyone I know at Jetsgo, Westjet and Canjet are happier than anyone out there......goes to show you that lifestyle accounts for a lot more than the almighty dollar....
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alpha speed
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Post by alpha speed »

The truth of the matter is that as long as there is a well to draw pilots out of we are all in trouble.
The companies all know this.
Canjet for the most part realises that if they pay low wages quality of life issues will be the alternate.
Westjet has the stock options and the morale patrol.
Time to wake up Jetsgo get off your employees backs. Quit buying new pick up trucks to drive around the apron and give some back to the employees. :x
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

Yeah, at least we now know where the $30 G's go. Many nice new trucks and baggage carts etc. around YYZ.

Wonder if the vehicle maker had to pay a fee to get their trucks 'hired'!! :lol:
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pimper
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Post by pimper »

Somebody finally decided to hire you eh RB? I quess there wasn't to many type rated guys left on the street? I think we both know the 30 g's are spent before you set foot in the door for your training. I quess the ramp personal should run around with scooters and a bread basket full of luggage? I also have a copy of the last CRA contract sitting here, maybe you can show me where the 92,000 level is cause I don't see it?

Alpha, if you are a SG employee you knew the deal before you signed up. Whats so bad about our lifestyle/sched? Mines pretty good!!
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

Pimper,

It wasn't a new contract. It was equalization with the Red team payscales after CRA was removed from the sale blocks. I just know my pay before was $60,000 something and I received a $2500/mth pay raise. Do you need a calculator?

Been working for a while. Wasn't type rated and didn't pay for it either. Kinda like sex. Some things I won't pay for. Where you choose to spend you money is your decision. :roll:

I still don't know why you get so defensive when someone disagrees with the Jetsgo hiring practices. Self doubt?

I think I already stated we agree to disagree.
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alpha speed
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Post by alpha speed »

Hey pimper.
There is no consistancy with regards to skeds.
There is favouritism shown to certain people.
Guess your one of the lucky ones.
If you are refering to the 30k before i signed up .......well I guess I did other wise I would not be here.
You can't possible agree with this practice of paying. I realise it is how it is done, but know one I know agrees with it other then ML.
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invertedattitude
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Post by invertedattitude »

Alpha speed wrote:The truth of the matter is that as long as there is a well to draw pilots out of we are all in trouble.
The companies all know this.
Canjet for the most part realises that if they pay low wages quality of life issues will be the alternate.
Westjet has the stock options and the morale patrol.
Time to wake up Jetsgo get off your employees backs. Quit buying new pick up trucks to drive around the apron and give some back to the employees. :x

New ramp equipment? hahahhaa... riiight
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pimper
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Post by pimper »

Alpha, I never agreed with the 30 grand. I say it should be a training bond for the entire cost of doing an intial (Sky Service style) If you don't like your sched and think you are being screwed all you have to do is call and ask why. I do agree with you that some guys half way down the list seem to get the best sched's.

For the love of GOD RB, I compared JetsGo to regional pay. You then told me that you made over 90 grand at regional. I said that was because you were bought by the red team. You then tried to tell me that you were paid that before the red team showed up. Look back at the Jetsgo thread on page three. My calculator works fine and I think maybe you were looking at your regional cheque upside down.
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Doc
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Post by Doc »

RB211 thinks he dosen't pay for sex!!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!!
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

pimper wrote:...For the love of GOD RB, I compared JetsGo to regional pay. You then told me that you made over 90 grand at regional. I said that was because you were bought by the red team. You then tried to tell me that you were paid that before the red team showed up. ...
Actually Pimp, I recall you disagreeing that the 90k number was even remotely true. You said something along the lines of me being full of crap.

From my post above, I said:
It wasn't a new contract. It was equalization with the Red team payscales after CRA was removed from the sale blocks. I just know my pay before was $60,000 something and I received a $2500/mth pay raise. Do you need a calculator?
As you can see, I never said before we were 'bought'. The pay was increased to be more in line with the 146 pay, after CRA was off the sale block and before the operations were integrated to become Jazz. Shortly thereafter I left, not much longer after that, I think, wages started their downward spiral.

I don't have any pay stubs etc left over from those days, all I remember is being happier than a pig in s**t for a couple of months.

Touche Doc! I guess I meant the payment isn't a direct 'cash' transaction!!! :lol:
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pimper
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Post by pimper »

The point made by me was that you were apart of the worst paying jet job in the country and you don't have a leg to stand on complaining about jetsgo. If AC never bought Can your pay would have gone from 65 ish to zero. The reason I get defensive is because of people like you telling half truths and others who read it take it as gospel.
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

pimper wrote:The point made by me was that you were apart of the worst paying jet job in the country and you don't have a leg to stand on complaining about jetsgo. If AC never bought Can your pay would have gone from 65 ish to zero. The reason I get defensive is because of people like you telling half truths and others who read it take it as gospel.
I would still take the 65k at CRA over 65k at JG. The benefits and pension were better. Yes, it was far from perfect but nobody had to part with 30k when they walked thru the door.

I'm not sure what is a half truth about disagreeing with the hiring conditions at your beloved Jetsgo.
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pimper
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Post by pimper »

You want to keep going..fine. The half truth was you stating you made 90 g at regional. You never would have made that at regional if AC didn't come along to pick up the pieces.

Personally I would rather part with 30g make 50g and have the 30g paid back rather then make 22g as a starting wage. What gets me is you continually bash jetsgo but your roots are from a company that was worse. By the way I'm going to make roughly 90g this year as a second yr captain, not 65. I think your forgetting this is a new company, not an old one.
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

However you want to see things to make yourself happy I guess.

Comparing wages and 'pay for training schemes' is apples to oranges IMO.

My fundamental problem with the JG scenario you find so likeable is, those hired are not necessarily the 'best' available. I know you will launch some diatribe about hugely qualified guys banging down your door. (your half truth methinks).

What you can't, or won't, say is how many wouldn't accept, or even apply, for a job at JG because of the 30k. I know many eminently qualified individuals for whom that is true.

So Jetsgo is self limiting the size and quality of its' own pool of candidates during a period of rapid and substantial growth. Doesn't make much sense to me.
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Doc
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Post by Doc »

I'm with RB211 on that thought. Now, JG probably wouldn't hire me anyway, but I have more than enough time in the 'ol log book to qualify for a F100 seat...I even know the CP!!!, but the 30K leaves me "cold". It's just, as my 12 year old daughter would say, "wrong!!". I've always said, "if ya can't afford to train your pilots, you dont deserve pilots worth trainning!" Of course, here I sit, with a company that dosen't train their pilots at all!
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pimper
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Post by pimper »

Hmm...maybe you can quote for me where I said I agreed with the 30g. I have always said it should be a training bond for the entire amount (50g) And I also agree that we would have many more qualified candidates if the 30g was not in place. But, those qualified guys would not be hired because they have seniority numbers at other companies. Pilots on lay off from Jazz, AC, Transat would not have been touched without the 30g in place.

Half truths about the amount of qualified applicants? I did their interviews so I think I have fairly decent knowlegde of the applicants.
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pimper
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Post by pimper »

Duplicate copy for some reason?
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Pindunder Jeep
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Post by Pindunder Jeep »

In a nutshell.................you get what you pay for.
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Looks good on paper, but will it fly?
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Post by tsgas »

Not at all. The reality is that pilots in North America are getting shaved as we debate this topic.Just check out UA,DL, and US and see the extent of the newest wage and benefit cuts as of this week.
Those flying schools sure sold you a load of bunk about the " shortage of pilots". :(
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LT
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Post by LT »

tsgas wrote: Those flying schools sure sold you a load of bunk about the " shortage of pilots". :(
They do have a shortage.. It's just that the pilots that are missing are the 10,000TT on type A3XX and B7XX.

No one bothered to ask if the industry was short 200TT CPLers...
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