Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
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Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Sunwing has announced that they will be wet leasing a 737 from Travel Service in Prague to operate their PUJ flights.
I've heard the pilots operating these flights are the ones that couldnt make it through their coversion to a TC ATPL. Certainly there is capacity somewhere to pick this flying up without going to Eastern Europe! If I was languishing (and of course building valuable FO experience) in the right seat, I would be somewhere north of very upset!
I've heard the pilots operating these flights are the ones that couldnt make it through their coversion to a TC ATPL. Certainly there is capacity somewhere to pick this flying up without going to Eastern Europe! If I was languishing (and of course building valuable FO experience) in the right seat, I would be somewhere north of very upset!
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
We've all heard the saying that every airline gets the union they deserve? I'm sure it's sh!t like this that is making their pilots want a union in there, and I say good on them.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
I heard yesterday that the pilot group voted in CAW as their union.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Can someone explain to me how this is even legal?
A Canadian company with more foreign pilots than local pilots (150 locals vs 200 foreigners)
A Canadian company operating with a so called “reciprocal agreement” (SWG receives 200 pilots from Europe and sends less than 60, and receives pilots from companies it does not reciprocate with, IE Tui Germany, where SWG receives pilots but does not send pilots to those companies)
A Canadian company wet leasing Canadian registered aircraft (Boeing 767) with foreign
pilots and cabin crew operating those aircraft between Canada and abroad And now “leasing” Canadian and G-Reg aircraft (now the 737) with foreign pilots while using local cabin crew between points in Canada and Abroad
As it is right now 4 out of 7 pilots you have at Sunwing are from abroad. So how comfortable would you feel when you buy a vacation package and board the aircraft when you have a 57% (probability = 200/350) chance one of the pilots are from abroad and a 33% (probability = (200/350) * (200/350)) chance both pilots are not from Canada, have limited proficient in English and have rarely operated in harsh winter conditions with short and slippery runways?
I just think, when I walk into Wal-Mart everything is made in china. As of right now, 33% of the time you walk on a Sunwing aircraft, a completely foreign crew is operating a Canadian Reg. aircraft, for a company in Canada, to points abroad. Soon enough I’ll walk into an Air Canada aircraft and see Chinese foreign pilots who don’t speak English flying the plane. Not only has our manufacturing sector been lost to foreign nationals, but our own internal professionals are being replaced by “cheaper” ex-pats.
A Canadian company with more foreign pilots than local pilots (150 locals vs 200 foreigners)
A Canadian company operating with a so called “reciprocal agreement” (SWG receives 200 pilots from Europe and sends less than 60, and receives pilots from companies it does not reciprocate with, IE Tui Germany, where SWG receives pilots but does not send pilots to those companies)
A Canadian company wet leasing Canadian registered aircraft (Boeing 767) with foreign
pilots and cabin crew operating those aircraft between Canada and abroad And now “leasing” Canadian and G-Reg aircraft (now the 737) with foreign pilots while using local cabin crew between points in Canada and Abroad
As it is right now 4 out of 7 pilots you have at Sunwing are from abroad. So how comfortable would you feel when you buy a vacation package and board the aircraft when you have a 57% (probability = 200/350) chance one of the pilots are from abroad and a 33% (probability = (200/350) * (200/350)) chance both pilots are not from Canada, have limited proficient in English and have rarely operated in harsh winter conditions with short and slippery runways?
I just think, when I walk into Wal-Mart everything is made in china. As of right now, 33% of the time you walk on a Sunwing aircraft, a completely foreign crew is operating a Canadian Reg. aircraft, for a company in Canada, to points abroad. Soon enough I’ll walk into an Air Canada aircraft and see Chinese foreign pilots who don’t speak English flying the plane. Not only has our manufacturing sector been lost to foreign nationals, but our own internal professionals are being replaced by “cheaper” ex-pats.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Minister of Labour - Email: lisa.raitt.c1@parl.gc.ca
Minister of Transport - EMail: denis.lebel@parl.gc.ca
Minister of Transport - EMail: denis.lebel@parl.gc.ca
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
".....As it is right now 4 out of 7 pilots you have at Sunwing are from abroad. So how comfortable would you feel when you buy a vacation package and board the aircraft when you have a 57% (probability = 200/350) chance one of the pilots are from abroad and a 33% (probability = (200/350) * (200/350)) chance both pilots are not from Canada, have limited proficient in English and have rarely operated in harsh winter conditions with short and slippery runways.........
Probably will have their hands full in YYT when the gales of November come slashing. Sticky note to self: I shan't be a passenger.
By your leave
Probably will have their hands full in YYT when the gales of November come slashing. Sticky note to self: I shan't be a passenger.
By your leave
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Company to Wet Lease B747-400 out of YUL for this summer. This is in addition to two Wet Leased B767-300ER from Euro Atlantic under Portugese Reg. (Not Canadian as per previous poster)
FYI
French to English Translation:
31 January 2012 CORSAIRFLY finds an agreement with vacations SUNWING be, all flights operated by Corsairfly departing from Montreal to Paris-Orly will be marketed and sold exclusively by Sunwing vacations. It is very close to 90 000 seats return a maximum of 6 weekly flights the carrier Corsairfly will offer Saturday, June 2 to October 31, 2012.
In the low season, from 2 to 30 June 2012 and September 8 to October 31, 2012, four weekly flights will be available Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays on B747 - 400 and in the high season of July 1 to September 7, 2012, Corsairfly offer six flights weekly on Sundays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays.
Corsairfly offers two classes of services, the class Horizon and the class Grand Large. Horizon class passengers are entitled to the screening of free seats, a free baggage allowance of 25 kg, a choice of hot meals with wine, non-alcoholic drinks, all films of the time, Kit for babies and package for children, blankets and quality benefits.
The class Grand Large passengers are entitled to wide seats with footrest tilt to 120 degrees, comfort, individual video screen kit, a tasty and refined, restore at the bar opened including champagne and aperitif service, free baggage allowance of 40 kg as well as the registration and priority boarding.
Travel agents who book Corsairfly to vacations Sunwing flights will benefit from a commission of 10%.
Vacations Sunwing will also offer of hotels, rental cars and purchases-redemptions with Citroën. All that can be done in a single transaction, thereby facilitating the task of travel agents.
Original French Press Release:
31 janvier 2012
CORSAIRFLY CONCLUT UNE ENTENTE AVEC VACANCES SUNWING
Désormais, tous les vols opérés par Corsairfly au départ de Montréal vers Paris-Orly seront commercialisés et vendus exclusivement par Vacances Sunwing. C’est tout près de 90 000 sièges aller-retour à raison d’un maximum de 6 vols hebdomadaires que le transporteur Corsairfly offrira dès le samedi 2 juin jusqu’au 31 octobre 2012.
En basse saison, du 2 au 30 juin 2012 et du 8 septembre au 31 octobre 2012, quatre vols hebdomadaires seront offerts les mercredis, jeudis, vendredis et samedis à bord de B747- 400 et en haute saison, du 1er juillet au 7 septembre 2012, Corsairfly offrira six vols hebdomadaires les dimanches, mardis, mercredis, jeudis, vendredis et samedis.
Corsairfly propose deux classes de services, la classe Horizon et la classe Grand Large. Les passagers en Classe Horizon ont droit à la présélection de sièges gratuite, une franchise de bagages de 25 kg, un choix de repas chauds servis avec vin, à des boissons non alcoolisées, les tout derniers films de l’heure, coffret pour bébés et pochette pour enfants, couvertures et des prestations de qualité.
Les passagers de la Classe Grand Large ont droit à des sièges larges avec repose-pied qui s’inclinent à 120 degrés, une trousse de confort, un écran vidéo individuel, une restauration savoureuse et raffinée, au bar ouvert incluant champagne et service apéritif, franchise de bagages de 40 kg ainsi que l’enregistrement et l’embarquement prioritaires.
Les agents de voyages qui réservent les vols de Corsairfly auprès de Vacances Sunwing profiteront d’une commission à la source de 10 %.
Vacances Sunwing offrira également des hôtels, locations de voitures et achats-rachats avec Citroën. Le tout pouvant être effectué en une seule et unique transaction, facilitant ainsi la tâche des agents de voyages.
FYI
French to English Translation:
31 January 2012 CORSAIRFLY finds an agreement with vacations SUNWING be, all flights operated by Corsairfly departing from Montreal to Paris-Orly will be marketed and sold exclusively by Sunwing vacations. It is very close to 90 000 seats return a maximum of 6 weekly flights the carrier Corsairfly will offer Saturday, June 2 to October 31, 2012.
In the low season, from 2 to 30 June 2012 and September 8 to October 31, 2012, four weekly flights will be available Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays on B747 - 400 and in the high season of July 1 to September 7, 2012, Corsairfly offer six flights weekly on Sundays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays.
Corsairfly offers two classes of services, the class Horizon and the class Grand Large. Horizon class passengers are entitled to the screening of free seats, a free baggage allowance of 25 kg, a choice of hot meals with wine, non-alcoholic drinks, all films of the time, Kit for babies and package for children, blankets and quality benefits.
The class Grand Large passengers are entitled to wide seats with footrest tilt to 120 degrees, comfort, individual video screen kit, a tasty and refined, restore at the bar opened including champagne and aperitif service, free baggage allowance of 40 kg as well as the registration and priority boarding.
Travel agents who book Corsairfly to vacations Sunwing flights will benefit from a commission of 10%.
Vacations Sunwing will also offer of hotels, rental cars and purchases-redemptions with Citroën. All that can be done in a single transaction, thereby facilitating the task of travel agents.
Original French Press Release:
31 janvier 2012
CORSAIRFLY CONCLUT UNE ENTENTE AVEC VACANCES SUNWING
Désormais, tous les vols opérés par Corsairfly au départ de Montréal vers Paris-Orly seront commercialisés et vendus exclusivement par Vacances Sunwing. C’est tout près de 90 000 sièges aller-retour à raison d’un maximum de 6 vols hebdomadaires que le transporteur Corsairfly offrira dès le samedi 2 juin jusqu’au 31 octobre 2012.
En basse saison, du 2 au 30 juin 2012 et du 8 septembre au 31 octobre 2012, quatre vols hebdomadaires seront offerts les mercredis, jeudis, vendredis et samedis à bord de B747- 400 et en haute saison, du 1er juillet au 7 septembre 2012, Corsairfly offrira six vols hebdomadaires les dimanches, mardis, mercredis, jeudis, vendredis et samedis.
Corsairfly propose deux classes de services, la classe Horizon et la classe Grand Large. Les passagers en Classe Horizon ont droit à la présélection de sièges gratuite, une franchise de bagages de 25 kg, un choix de repas chauds servis avec vin, à des boissons non alcoolisées, les tout derniers films de l’heure, coffret pour bébés et pochette pour enfants, couvertures et des prestations de qualité.
Les passagers de la Classe Grand Large ont droit à des sièges larges avec repose-pied qui s’inclinent à 120 degrés, une trousse de confort, un écran vidéo individuel, une restauration savoureuse et raffinée, au bar ouvert incluant champagne et service apéritif, franchise de bagages de 40 kg ainsi que l’enregistrement et l’embarquement prioritaires.
Les agents de voyages qui réservent les vols de Corsairfly auprès de Vacances Sunwing profiteront d’une commission à la source de 10 %.
Vacances Sunwing offrira également des hôtels, locations de voitures et achats-rachats avec Citroën. Le tout pouvant être effectué en une seule et unique transaction, facilitant ainsi la tâche des agents de voyages.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
The Orlando Sentinel yesterday had an article that says the US has approved flights from Cuba to Florida. This may have some impact on Sunwing's business model?
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
justsay'n wrote:Can someone explain to me how this is even legal?
As it is right now 4 out of 7 pilots you have at Sunwing are from abroad. So how comfortable would you feel when you buy a vacation package and board the aircraft when you have a 57% (probability = 200/350) chance one of the pilots are from abroad and a 33% (probability = (200/350) * (200/350)) chance both pilots are not from Canada, have limited proficient in English and have rarely operated in harsh winter conditions with short and slippery runways?
Just like when a passenger boards an aircraft in Canada they have no idea their F/O came off a Beech 1900 and never talked to a Cuban controller in their life with Thunderstorms everywhere?
C'mon !, your post is full of holes with no research to back it up. I'll even bet that most of those F/O's from overseas have more jet time in a 737 than many of the posters on here. This foreign pilot stuff is crap but your accusations are unfounded and backed up with no facts at all.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
I wouldn't say that. What of the foreign pilots that have been removed from the roster without ever making it to a ride? Witness the extraordinary block hours for YYC captains last month when the first foreign captain was shown as TER...minated. Can these people now go back to Europe only to appear again with their own airplanes and crews to fly in our airspace? Are the trainers keeping these people's performance hidden from the minister by not letting them get to a PPC?
If I were to look in my crystal ball, I would see an expansion of this program next winter. More ACMIs for Sunwing. It is a much easier system to manage, without having to deal with CAW's newest franchise!
If I were to look in my crystal ball, I would see an expansion of this program next winter. More ACMIs for Sunwing. It is a much easier system to manage, without having to deal with CAW's newest franchise!
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
patrickairlie:
Time will tell as to the increase in ACMI outsourced flying as SWG continues to grow. it is anyone's guess.
As for Cuba to US destinations, I do not see this as a negative impact as SWG has been flying Canadians to Cuba.... Americans have not had the option to go directly. Who knows, perhaps with SWG's acquisition of a US Tour operator, business will grow even more. SWG are adding two new aircraft to service new business from the USA to Mexico flying out of Atlanta, Nashville and Cincinnati courtesy of it's new Tour Operator: Vacation Express.
Time will tell as to the increase in ACMI outsourced flying as SWG continues to grow. it is anyone's guess.
As for Cuba to US destinations, I do not see this as a negative impact as SWG has been flying Canadians to Cuba.... Americans have not had the option to go directly. Who knows, perhaps with SWG's acquisition of a US Tour operator, business will grow even more. SWG are adding two new aircraft to service new business from the USA to Mexico flying out of Atlanta, Nashville and Cincinnati courtesy of it's new Tour Operator: Vacation Express.
Last edited by ea306 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Bigskyjoc
What?
Are you kidding?
We don't need foreign pilots in Canada! Sunwing are screwing Canadian pilots and f*ckin' the system.
Get serious.
Many carriers in Europe haven't responded to market realities by reorganizing to save their asses. The result is they are laying off personnel and shedding assets. You think it's okay to dump their layed off or out of work pilots onto our very limited pilot job market?
A Canadian pilot flying that 1900 deserves a shot at a 37 before that experienced foreign pilot. We have laws in this country that say so. We just don't happen to have the politicians willing to enforce those laws. It's easier for them to bury their heads in the sand. As pilots, should we join them?
Flying around thunderstorms in Cuba is about as tough as flying around TRWs in MB or ND in July. Spare us the drama. You want to talk thunderstorms? Talk India. TRWs topped at FL600.
That's a thunderstorm.
Good grief.
Gino
What?
Are you kidding?
We don't need foreign pilots in Canada! Sunwing are screwing Canadian pilots and f*ckin' the system.
Get serious.
Many carriers in Europe haven't responded to market realities by reorganizing to save their asses. The result is they are laying off personnel and shedding assets. You think it's okay to dump their layed off or out of work pilots onto our very limited pilot job market?
A Canadian pilot flying that 1900 deserves a shot at a 37 before that experienced foreign pilot. We have laws in this country that say so. We just don't happen to have the politicians willing to enforce those laws. It's easier for them to bury their heads in the sand. As pilots, should we join them?
Flying around thunderstorms in Cuba is about as tough as flying around TRWs in MB or ND in July. Spare us the drama. You want to talk thunderstorms? Talk India. TRWs topped at FL600.
That's a thunderstorm.
Good grief.
Gino
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
While I agree completely with the unfairness of allowing foreign job capacity to be dumped on Canada, I am not surprised. I left the borders of my beloved country long ago after realizing that the country's industry simply doesn't look after its own. More like eats its young.
However I do think it's also stupid to try and denigrate your foreign colleague's abilities just to try and make a point. I can assure that any Czech, German, whatever, pilot has just as much experience with crosswinds and deicing and the like. In the case of the B1900 comparison, definitely more, in the category of aircraft being operated.
I think this practice should be fought as hard as possible, but let's try and remove the personal attacks if possible shall we?
However I do think it's also stupid to try and denigrate your foreign colleague's abilities just to try and make a point. I can assure that any Czech, German, whatever, pilot has just as much experience with crosswinds and deicing and the like. In the case of the B1900 comparison, definitely more, in the category of aircraft being operated.
I think this practice should be fought as hard as possible, but let's try and remove the personal attacks if possible shall we?
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Agreed Complexintentions.
It is one thing to be protective of our jobs and our industry.. To infer that Foreign Pilots are less capable than Canadians because they are not from Canada just does not make any sense.
It is one thing to be protective of our jobs and our industry.. To infer that Foreign Pilots are less capable than Canadians because they are not from Canada just does not make any sense.
Last edited by ea306 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
This is not about personal attacks. This is a question of how is this legal?
How can a Canadian Company have more foreigners than locals in a job market that has many Canadians who would qualify (clearly evident when they actually place a job add they receive more resumes that qualify then they have spots for). Even with a reciprocating agreement there is a gap between what’s equal and what’s taking place?
How can they get away with saying that it’s a “reciprocating agreement” when they have brought 200 foreigners who receive work visas for our job market and they ship across less than 60?
In response to the Vacation Express comment, Sunwing acquired Vacation express and will be using their aircraft to fly “W-pattern” flights departing from Canada to the Caribbean and then to a U.S. destination. The reverse pattern will take place from the U.S. originating cities. (Atlanta, Cincinnati and Nashville). How is this not cabotage?
With regard to the issue of pilot experience, this isn’t about a 1900 vs. a 37. It’s a fact that many of the “experiences crews” failed their PPCs at Sunwing, upwards of 30-40%. These are the crews that are now back to Travel Service, now operating under “wet lease”. So if you are in YYZ or YUL and you buy a vacation package from Sunwing to Punta Cana you had a 33% chance a foreign crew would be operating the flight. Now you have a 50% chance that the aircraft will be a completely foreign crew with 27% chance that the crew you are with initially failed to meet Canadian flight test standards.
Clearly if the 1900 driver can pass a Canadain PPC he has the right to operate the aircraft, BUT If a 25 year FO from Travel Service cannot pass a Canadian PPC, he cannot operate a Canadian registered aircraft for a Canadian company, Well until recently, where if you worked for travel service, came to Canada, failed your ride, deemed unqualified to operate a 737 by Canadian standards, that’s OK! make a quick roundtrip home, kiss the wife then back to YYZ to fly for the same company in the same aircraft.
How is this legal? Sunwing is legally obligated to sub-chartering a Canadian company, like Westjet, Enerjet or one of many companies in Canada that operate aircraft capable of operating these routes. (Interesting fact, before sunwing vacations created their own airline they used to charter Westjet and SkyService, well until Mr Williams left Sky and opened his own version for the hunters)
By this logic and clear defiance of the law, Westjet should be aloud to charter a cheaper external carrier like Southwest to fill their new and expanding routes when they cannot fulfill,(ie, a new routes to Hawaii, or PUJ). Or better yet, “Wet-Lease” 40 turbo-props from Colgan Air because they can put American pilots in Canada and operate a Dash 8 cheaper than westjet could if they opened their own operation with Canadian pilots. That’s a great idea for the Canadian job market and economy and those poor blokes driving 1900’s across the country (who can pass a 37 PPC given the opportunity) looking to further their career.
How can a Canadian Company have more foreigners than locals in a job market that has many Canadians who would qualify (clearly evident when they actually place a job add they receive more resumes that qualify then they have spots for). Even with a reciprocating agreement there is a gap between what’s equal and what’s taking place?
How can they get away with saying that it’s a “reciprocating agreement” when they have brought 200 foreigners who receive work visas for our job market and they ship across less than 60?
In response to the Vacation Express comment, Sunwing acquired Vacation express and will be using their aircraft to fly “W-pattern” flights departing from Canada to the Caribbean and then to a U.S. destination. The reverse pattern will take place from the U.S. originating cities. (Atlanta, Cincinnati and Nashville). How is this not cabotage?
With regard to the issue of pilot experience, this isn’t about a 1900 vs. a 37. It’s a fact that many of the “experiences crews” failed their PPCs at Sunwing, upwards of 30-40%. These are the crews that are now back to Travel Service, now operating under “wet lease”. So if you are in YYZ or YUL and you buy a vacation package from Sunwing to Punta Cana you had a 33% chance a foreign crew would be operating the flight. Now you have a 50% chance that the aircraft will be a completely foreign crew with 27% chance that the crew you are with initially failed to meet Canadian flight test standards.
Clearly if the 1900 driver can pass a Canadain PPC he has the right to operate the aircraft, BUT If a 25 year FO from Travel Service cannot pass a Canadian PPC, he cannot operate a Canadian registered aircraft for a Canadian company, Well until recently, where if you worked for travel service, came to Canada, failed your ride, deemed unqualified to operate a 737 by Canadian standards, that’s OK! make a quick roundtrip home, kiss the wife then back to YYZ to fly for the same company in the same aircraft.
How is this legal? Sunwing is legally obligated to sub-chartering a Canadian company, like Westjet, Enerjet or one of many companies in Canada that operate aircraft capable of operating these routes. (Interesting fact, before sunwing vacations created their own airline they used to charter Westjet and SkyService, well until Mr Williams left Sky and opened his own version for the hunters)
By this logic and clear defiance of the law, Westjet should be aloud to charter a cheaper external carrier like Southwest to fill their new and expanding routes when they cannot fulfill,(ie, a new routes to Hawaii, or PUJ). Or better yet, “Wet-Lease” 40 turbo-props from Colgan Air because they can put American pilots in Canada and operate a Dash 8 cheaper than westjet could if they opened their own operation with Canadian pilots. That’s a great idea for the Canadian job market and economy and those poor blokes driving 1900’s across the country (who can pass a 37 PPC given the opportunity) looking to further their career.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
I wasn't trying to put down a 1900 pilot, just stating that someone with previous 737 experience - even from *gasp* outside of Canada - would be quicker to get up to speed on another 737 operation. That's just logical. That's why they're doing it. Time and training are money.
I do not know the ins and outs of what you state about "30-40%" of foreign crews failing their PPC's. I do know this from many years and many, many flight departments and training organizations.
When 1 or 2 candidates fail their rides, it can be chalked up to the individuals. Poor preparation, nerves, whatever. Anyone can have a bad day.
But when over a third of a group fails, THAT'S a failing of the training program. So I don't know if that allegation is true, frankly I don't know how it would be provable either way, but the regulatory regimes that these pilots are drawn from are every bit as stringent - or more - than Transport Canada, so I have some difficulty buying it. Try a JAA ride and let me know how it goes.
Again, this is not to suggest that I agree with practices that allow scumbag cheap Canadian operators to sacrifice Canadian jobs to save themselves money. But some of these comments seem to be implying that the pax are somehow in danger because the pilots may not be Canadian and that...is nonsense.
I do not know the ins and outs of what you state about "30-40%" of foreign crews failing their PPC's. I do know this from many years and many, many flight departments and training organizations.
When 1 or 2 candidates fail their rides, it can be chalked up to the individuals. Poor preparation, nerves, whatever. Anyone can have a bad day.
But when over a third of a group fails, THAT'S a failing of the training program. So I don't know if that allegation is true, frankly I don't know how it would be provable either way, but the regulatory regimes that these pilots are drawn from are every bit as stringent - or more - than Transport Canada, so I have some difficulty buying it. Try a JAA ride and let me know how it goes.
Again, this is not to suggest that I agree with practices that allow scumbag cheap Canadian operators to sacrifice Canadian jobs to save themselves money. But some of these comments seem to be implying that the pax are somehow in danger because the pilots may not be Canadian and that...is nonsense.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Tell it.Old fella wrote:
Probably will have their hands full in YYT when the gales of November come slashing. Sticky note to self: I shan't be a passenger.
By your leave
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
That's a question I CAN answer.
On a JAA (EASA) ride you are allowed 5 unsat events before the sim comes off motion. The checkride can be stopped, training can take place to remediate the unsat event and then the checkride restarted so the unsat event can be retested.
How is a Transport checkride easier?
Under the FAA PTS, one failed or unsat and "shows over".
There's nothing special about European pilots. Some good. Some not. Just like our homies.
What's your point?
Gino Under
On a JAA (EASA) ride you are allowed 5 unsat events before the sim comes off motion. The checkride can be stopped, training can take place to remediate the unsat event and then the checkride restarted so the unsat event can be retested.
How is a Transport checkride easier?
Under the FAA PTS, one failed or unsat and "shows over".
There's nothing special about European pilots. Some good. Some not. Just like our homies.
What's your point?
Gino Under
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
I am old and I can remember. I liked the EPA days, never had an incident in YYT that I know of. Others did, AC,Royal, Morningstar, Provincial............
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Hello Justsaying,
I am just curious. How is it that Sunwing Vacations is legally obligated to wet lease only a Canadian carrier for additional lift? They are using EAA out of Portugal B767, Corsair from somewhere in Europe B747 as well a Travel Service for additional lift, a B737.
West Jet operates B757 to Hawaii under a wet lease arrangment. First it was a USA carrier, and now I believe it's UK carrier.
If this practice was illegal it all would of been shut down some time is my guess.
In the past, Sunwing Travel group have used Omni, Alaska, and Aero Mexico.
The W patterns you refer to in and out of the USA I am told are part of 5th freedom rights....which I do not profess to know much about. Cabotage is the right to go point to point within another country. Vacation Express in the USA has the same right to contract lift from a Foriegn carrier as we do here in Canada, and as they do in Europe. This is how it works in the western world.
As for riciprocacy, that is another issue. One would think equal riciprocacy would be the objective to have equal employment opportunities for Canadian Pilots.
Sunwing Travel Group has been in business for many many years longer than the small airline they started for themselves. The use of Foriegn Airlines and Foriegn crews has been going on for many years and is how the company was built. Of course Sunwing Travel Group are not an airline. They are a growing tour operator which is now 49% European owned. They could shut the airline down and still continue to grow their business by using lift from where ever they can find it.
At least with the present model, even with Foreign Pilots flying Canadian registered aircraft....it is still creating many other jobs for cabin crew and ground handlers and dispatchers and engineers etc. This is not good for us pilots right now, but hopefully this will change. Time will tell.
I am just curious. How is it that Sunwing Vacations is legally obligated to wet lease only a Canadian carrier for additional lift? They are using EAA out of Portugal B767, Corsair from somewhere in Europe B747 as well a Travel Service for additional lift, a B737.
West Jet operates B757 to Hawaii under a wet lease arrangment. First it was a USA carrier, and now I believe it's UK carrier.
If this practice was illegal it all would of been shut down some time is my guess.
In the past, Sunwing Travel group have used Omni, Alaska, and Aero Mexico.
The W patterns you refer to in and out of the USA I am told are part of 5th freedom rights....which I do not profess to know much about. Cabotage is the right to go point to point within another country. Vacation Express in the USA has the same right to contract lift from a Foriegn carrier as we do here in Canada, and as they do in Europe. This is how it works in the western world.
As for riciprocacy, that is another issue. One would think equal riciprocacy would be the objective to have equal employment opportunities for Canadian Pilots.
Sunwing Travel Group has been in business for many many years longer than the small airline they started for themselves. The use of Foriegn Airlines and Foriegn crews has been going on for many years and is how the company was built. Of course Sunwing Travel Group are not an airline. They are a growing tour operator which is now 49% European owned. They could shut the airline down and still continue to grow their business by using lift from where ever they can find it.
At least with the present model, even with Foreign Pilots flying Canadian registered aircraft....it is still creating many other jobs for cabin crew and ground handlers and dispatchers and engineers etc. This is not good for us pilots right now, but hopefully this will change. Time will tell.