Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

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av8tor_assrope
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by av8tor_assrope »

Tailgunner,

Easy there Capt Kirk. Denying "MYJumpseat" to a fellow Canadian pilot (who has no say in company policy btw) who is just trying to earn a living flying a jet like everyone else......that's just a real shame. I hope I never share a flight deck with someone like you.
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pacificwind
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by pacificwind »

Just curious...
Reading all these rants and commentaries, I wonder if the industry or if Transport Canada will permit the partial or full implementation of contract pilots like some Asian carriers are presently doing?
I have heard rumours that possibly AC's proposed low cost carrier will attempt to do this.
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tailgunner
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by tailgunner »

Av8tor-assrope,
Umm, it is my jumpseat the moment I board the A/C. You may not like it, but that is the way it is.
I see that losing the jumpseat seems to have riled up some apparent SW pilots. Good! That is what we need, a little emotion. I just don' t buy the argument that SW pilots really just want Canadians hired. If it were so, we would see letters of support from the SW pilot group for Gilles efforts. They would be challenging their company's hiring policies. Yet we hear nothing. Could it be that they realize that SW can grow and expand for the busy winter schedule at will with NO effort to be a year round player? Maybe they realize that if SW maintains this advantage they can also reap the rewards? SW seems to be hiring third party contactors now as well...yet still nothing from the SW pilots group.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Not all people can afford to go public in this forum without facing consequences, even behind a handle. I happen to know that most Sunwing pilots are against the hiring of Foreign pilots and I also know that Sunwing's pilot Union is in conflict with Sunwing management over that Crewing company Sunwing just created, probably to bust the union. When temporary foreign Workers are hired every year instead of permanent Canadian pilots, it prevents pilot advancement, especially that Sunwing, unlike Canjet, hires foreign Captains, which prevents the promotion of Canadian right seaters. Now that the newly formed Sunwing crewing company just hired 20 pilots who are outside the seniority list, it does not help the unionized Sunwing pilots one bit. I am a bit surprised that Sunwing management would allow such a conflict to brew within their ranks on top of the foreign pilot issue, but hey, they must know what they are doing right ? I'm just a dumb pilot. What do I know.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

Not all people can afford to go public in this forum without facing consequences, even behind a handle. I happen to know that most Sunwing pilots are against the hiring of Foreign pilots and I also know that Sunwing's pilot Union is in conflict with Sunwing management over that Crewing company Sunwing just created, probably to bust the union. When temporary foreign Workers are hired every year instead of permanent Canadian pilots, it prevents pilot advancement, especially that Sunwing, unlike Canjet, hires foreign Captains, which prevents the promotion of Canadian right seaters. Now that the newly formed Sunwing crewing company just hired 20 pilots who are outside the seniority list, it does not help the unionized Sunwing pilots one bit. I am a bit surprised that Sunwing management would allow such a conflict to brew within their ranks on top of the foreign pilot issue, but hey, they must know what they are doing right ? I'm just a dumb pilot. What do I know.
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tailgunner
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by tailgunner »

Gilles, you have earned my respect. I will defer to your knowledge of the workings of the SW pilot group.
Question though. How will these 20 non-union Sunwing Pilots/ busters be identified. Will they carry SW badges and RAICs? It will be a cold day in .... Before they ride with me. Just saying.
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tailgunner
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by tailgunner »

AA.. Just so you know. The PIC has to verify credentials to ride on the jumpseat agreement. No agreement by the skipper, means no ride. This usually happens at the top of the gate....
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Rogerdodger2
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by Rogerdodger2 »

I would imagine their RAIC would have the company name on it. The contractors would probably have something other than SunWing Airlines.
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Rogerdodger2
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by Rogerdodger2 »

Come to think of it the contractors won't have jumpseat privileges because they're not part of the SunWing union right?
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chopsticks
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by chopsticks »

tailgunner wrote:Gilles, you have earned my respect. I will defer to your knowledge of the workings of the SW pilot group.
Question though. How will these 20 non-union Sunwing Pilots/ busters be identified. Will they carry SW badges and RAICs? It will be a cold day in .... Before they ride with me. Just saying.
Tailgunner, you sound like a real peach. If Sunwing offers good employment terms to 20 Canadians, in lieu of bringing in the equivalent number of foreign pilots, and the terms and conditions are a positive step for these pilots in comparison to where they were before, why should you have an issue with that? I can assure you that none of the 20 hired went on with any knowledge or intention of "union busting" as some think on here. I also disagree with what management is doing with respect to going outside the union, but I don't think it's fair to vilify these 20 new hires. Just saying.
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OPEC6-Heavy
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by OPEC6-Heavy »

Tailgunner
You want to talk about Union Busting, it's called "LCC". I hope for your sake they're all going to be ACPA members.
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av8tor_assrope
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by av8tor_assrope »

OPEC6-Heavy wrote:Tailgunner
You want to talk about Union Busting, it's called "LCC". I hope for your sake they're all going to be ACPA members.
+1
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av8tor_assrope
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by av8tor_assrope »

tail gunner you seem like you would be a real peach to work with. instead of worrying about jumpseaters and 20 some odd contractors at Sunwing, you should be focusing on your own airline which has a whole heap load of issues.
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chopsticks
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by chopsticks »

OPEC6-Heavy wrote:Tailgunner
You want to talk about Union Busting, it's called "LCC". I hope for your sake they're all going to be ACPA members.
Nevermind the LCC. That's an issue, but what about ACPA allowing AC to start Sky Regional? That in itself is a huge issue that is screwing everybody in the industry. Using Tailgunner's theory, I think other airlines shouldn't allow Air Canada pilots to jumpseat on their airlines.

Anyhow, the point is we should all be in this together. If you want to learn a bit more, why not have a friendly chat with one of those 20 Sunwing contract pilots to find out more? If we all stand together we will get further ahead.
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tailgunner
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by tailgunner »

The LCC will be flown by ACPA pilots. Year round.
Please do not tell me you are comparing full time AC pilots to outside contract pilots or even foreign temporary workers. Surely you can see the diference.
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Re: Temporary Seasonal pilots. The big lie at Sunwing

Post by OPEC6-Heavy »

Tailgunner,

Obviously you missed the point. We could have this conversation all day, a little off topic. I'm glad to see they will be ACPA members. The fact that they are at lower wages and a lower bar then what ACPA's been fighting for over the past decades is not really a big deal and maybe ACPA can change that right?. As you so eloquently said, "Just say'in". And when they do change the conditions, guess what? It's no longer an LCC and your back to square one. You can't win... Another example, the Air Canada LCC will Hammer Transat on its only profitable segment... Europe, starting next summer with lower fares and increased capacity using what will eventually be 20 B-767's (that's almost 70% larger than the current state of TS). More TS jobs may be lost because of a Lower Wage, Lower cost Airline operated by AC pilots??? But that's Ok because they are Canadian...Sky Regional's 15 EMB-175's again at lower wages, the race to the bottom starts again. Believe me, this will make the Canadian and Euro contract pilots at Sunwing look like a Fairy tale. Anyways, my point is that we all have very similar issues within our companies and you shouldn't single out one company in particular because that's the flavor of the month, look in the mirror before you decide to judge others so harshly.
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