Porter and the CSeries

[Takeoff OK]

Don't see how this is possible at YTZ.

The Landing Distance req'd at MLW is quoted at 4400'. Add to that the 60% factor and you're looking at 7333'. Throw some rain on there and you're now looking at 8433' to be legal to dispatch to the island.

This is a publicity stunt.

Or, they have no intention of operating them in/out of YTZ.

FYI, it's fine so long as your alternate airport meets the dispatch factored landing distance requirments.

I stand corrected. I still don't see them ever operating at YTZ, though.

[Valhalla]

Me neither, however; I think he's right.

He also predicted "Porker Air", as he called it back in 2006, would never fly...

Back in 2006, there were 26,000 passengers travelling trough YTZ. In 2012, that number has now topped 2 million annually. So the airport isn't going anywhere and Porter owns the airport infrastructure and owns 90% of the slots. The C series will allow for further passenger and destination growth as the tunnel is opened and the airport "facilities" are further improved.

[Hozer]

Press Release this morning at 1100, anyone know if it will be televised on local television?

[Flywest]

Bobby just jumped the shark....

[Gravol]

And there you have it - he hopes to extend AND operate out of the Island.

Sorry to disappoint the skeptics!

[ChallengerDan]

Details of what is involved available at porterplans.com

[gegu1]

How is Porter financing this expansion, $2.3 billion not including the airport expansion, who is lending this much money and taking on all the risks. Porter doesn't have much equity and is barely breaking even, you have to have a strong balance sheet and revenue to be able to take on this much debt. Porter is privately owned, I have no problem if some billionaire behind Porter is risking his money but I don't want the government to lend Porter $2billion because when things don't work out and the company goes bankrupt, the taxpayers wouldn't be getting all of their money back. This is going to be a political fight, there is some serious money involved here, the owners of Porter will have the backing of the Conservatives on all levels and in all departaments, I don't think they will win but anything is possible, the laywyers and corrupt politicians will try anything, the media machine will do their spin. How come Porter isn't interested competing out of other airports like Pearson, they seen to be tough because they have no competition on Billy Bishop, Porter has a 90% market share there, if the expansion is approved and the jets could land there that would be a totally different situation, in such case Porter should sell some slots to other airlines like Westjet.

[rudder]

How is Porter financing this expansion, $2.3 billion not including the airport expansion, who is lending this much money and taking on all the risks. Porter doesn't have much equity and is barely breaking even, you have to have a strong balance sheet and revenue to be able to take on this much debt. Porter is privately owned, I have no problem if some billionaire behind Porter is risking his money but I don't want the government to lend Porter $2billion because when things don't work out and the company goes bankrupt, the taxpayers wouldn't be getting all of their money back. This is going to be a political fight, there is some serious money involved here, the owners of Porter will have the backing of the Conservatives on all levels and in all departaments, I don't think they will win but anything is possible, the laywyers and corrupt politicians will try anything, the media machine will do their spin. How come Porter isn't interested competing out of other airports like Pearson, they seen to be tough because they have no competition on Billy Bishop, Porter has a 90% market share there, if the expansion is approved and the jets could land there that would be a totally different situation, in such case Porter should sell some slots to other airlines like Westjet.

I presume that aircraft financing will be 80% EDC and 10% gov't of Quebec.

[photofly]

How long does it take to get ETOPS certification on a new aircraft, sufficient to fly CYTZ-EGLC?

[mulligan]

Anybody have any insight into the performance of the C series? I fly the 319 which is a pretty good performer and I doubt if we could go out of a 5000' runway at YTZ and go to LA or Vancouver. I have done KSNA-YYZ but the winds are always on the tail coming east. KSNA is 5700' and it's a tight squeeze getting out. On a 30+ degree day at YTZ I would guess there would be a problem unless the new aircraft has huge engines. Maybe it does.

[Dirty A]

Looks like YTZ is becoming the new Pickering...it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[Gino Under]

The range is 2950 nm.
It comes out of the box 120 minutes ETOPS.
MTOW requires (probably will require) just over 4000 ft on an ISA day.
YTZ - LAX well within its range.
YHZ - LCY well within its range.

Imminent death for the A318?

...this IS going to be interesting.

Gino

[photofly]

I thought ETOPS required airline certification too, after a certain number of operating hours, to verify maintenance procedures etc.

[ptc]

there is an "urban operations" variant of the CS100.

I am not sure how accurate this info is but here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_CSeries

[whodareswins]

How is Porter financing this expansion, $2.3 billion not including the airport expansion, who is lending this much money and taking on all the risks. Porter doesn't have much equity and is barely breaking even, you have to have a strong balance sheet and revenue to be able to take on this much debt. Porter is privately owned, I have no problem if some billionaire behind Porter is risking his money but I don't want the government to lend Porter $2billion because when things don't work out and the company goes bankrupt, the taxpayers wouldn't be getting all of their money back.

How do you know Porter doesn't have a strong balance sheet? Our last glimpse into their financials was several years ago now. It's a private business so like the rest of us you're just speculating. You don't have to turn a huge profit to have a strong balance sheet. Maybe instead of posting a significant profit they chose to pay down debt? That's what I would do if I had any surplus at the end of the year. Like you, this is just pure speculation on my part.

How come Porter isn't interested competing out of other airports like Pearson, they seen to be tough because they have no competition on Billy Bishop, Porter has a 90% market share there, if the expansion is approved and the jets could land there that would be a totally different situation, in such case Porter should sell some slots to other airlines like Westjet.

Huh?? Why on earth would Porter even consider competing out of YYZ or YUL? That would be financial suicide and completely against the entire reason the airline was founded in the first place! One minute you're questioning the company's viability, the next you're wondering why they aren't taking on unnecessary risks. And why on earth should they sell any slots to Westjet? (highly unlikely they'd want them in the first place). One of the reasons why Porter was given all of Continental's slots into YTZ was because they would explore new markets. If Air Canada was awarded any they would just be adding capacity on already saturated markets like YOW or YUL. Similarly if Westjet was given any slots.

[Gino Under]

photofly

You're right.
However, it's unlikely Porter would have to spend a lot of time and effort to be ETOPS approved for 120 minutes.
The aircraft is expected to be approved for steep approaches and with HGS, Cat IIIb auto land it should fit many operators wish list.

Politics will rule the day at YTZ and Toronto City Council is known for it's stupidity. With 3 years to wait and see who knows where this will go?

For today at least, I'd say it's all good.

Gino Under

[photofly]

I don't think there's any doubt that the plans will be approved, one way or another.

I'm seriously wondering if Porter can do flights to London. (No doubt they already know.) Imagine what that would do to their load levels if, for instance, you could fly London City -> Chicago via CYTZ.

[Mig29]

Good for them!!

As long as they don't offer left seat C-Series for 65k/year!!

[justwork]

Good for them!!

As long as they don't offer left seat C-Series for 65k/year!!

I'm positive it wont pay less than the Q! No one knows what the pay scale will be and no one will likely know until the final stages of the game. Announcing the order is the first move in a long road a head.

[mulligan]

Hmmm
The 319 needs a balanced field length of about 7000' to take off at max gross and go to LAX, say from YYZ. So if the C series can do that from 5000' or so feet then it must be some hot rod! Sounds a little optimistic.