Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-2014

[Gilles Hudicourt]

The last thing I want to do is to undermine the efforts made by Gilles to support Canadian jobs but there is one thing that puzzles me. Just some simple math to throw out.....
The 737 fleet operated for Transat by both Enerjet and Canjet are apprx 14 in total. Transat had a Canadian made solution to wet leasing. Granted Canjet did use some foreign pilots but let's put that aside at the moment.
The contract with Canjet does not get renewed. Transat takes the 737 flying in-house. As I understand it Transat is acquiring 4 737's of their own in the near future. Their usually surplused pilots at the end of the summer now will now be used to fly an additional 4 dry leased aircraft for the winter season. Now we're up to 8 right? 6 more spots to fill. Enerjet gets 1 and Canjet gets 5. Done. Possibly not 1 foreign pilot at any company at any time of the year.
Instead Transat has not renewed it's contract with Canjet and as a result, reason would lead one to believe not everyone will be keeping their jobs there.
At the same time we are hearing Transat is lining up contract pilots for next year. Sure Transat will be required to hire qualified Canadian 737 pilots but they'll have taken other maybe less desireable work out of necessity by then. Is this correct that Transat's decision has led to Canadian pilots out of work while foreign pilots are being lined-up?
I think a golden opportunity to prove there is no valid reason to have exceptions to limited wet leasing and foreign pilot limitations has been missed here.

There will be no foreign pilots at Transat next year, except if TS is required to take some in a reciprocity deal (if an equal number of Canadian pilots obtained work overseas in exchange)

The way I compute things, we will have a sufficient number of Canadian pilots for even 14 737s next winter.

[monkey]

What about the summer? Season layoffs?

[monkey]

Or some go back to the 330 and it balances out?

[CWS]

If Transat does end up wet leasing, even on a reciprocal deal, is the following conclusion not true....If Transat acquires enough planes to run the program itself in the winter it will have an excess of planes in the summer and will then need to find work for them, likely in Europe, and thereby setting up a need to reciprocate. By reciprocating we now have foreign pilots here in the winter doing the work that Canadian pilots contracted from other operators could have been doing.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

If reciprocity is done by the book, it allows x Canadians to have a full time job instead having 2x Canadians having a seasonal one. So in that sense, you are correct.

But there will be no excess aircraft in the summer. Next summer, we will have the same number of wide bodies we had in the near past, plus 4 737s which we already had through Canjet.

[CWS]

If you have 4 and need 14 where are the other 10 coming from? The answer may lead us back to wet leasing, which has been argued to protect from layoffs. But I'll put this out in the form of 2 scenarios of total Canadian pilot employment The 1st scenario is using wet leasing and the 2nd none at all. Both assume 14 aircraft to be operated in the winter with 10 pilots per plane.

Scenario 1

4 Transat Full time Planes = 40
7 Transat Dry Lease = 35 (half credit for seasonal assuming pilots go back to Trans Atlantic flying in summer)
3 Wet Lease = 0
Total Canadian pilot jobs = 75

Scenario 2

4 Transat Full Time Planes = 40
4 Transat Dry Lease = 20 (half credit for seasonal assuming pilots go back to Trans Atlantic flying in summer)
5 Canjet Seasonal = 25 (half credit for seasonal)
1 Enerjet Seasonal - 5 (half credit for seasonal)
Total Canadian pilot jobs = 90

On top of all this, scenario 2 assumes the Canjet / Enerjet pilots are laid off in the summer which would not be completely true. Those companies would go back to charters with the Military, MNR, and Oil companies etc.
So the numbers for contracting Canadian companies for the winter flying clearly produce more Canadian jobs.

So what is the true reason for wet leasing? The same answer for all questions that have irrational answers.......Money.
Wet leasing, especially in excess, has lowered the cost of operating aircraft and therefore allowed for the artificial lowering of the cost of a vacation. Who's paying for it? We are.

[nortont]

Here you go Gilles... In the Toronto Star...

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I actually do think that a few years ago, Sunwing hired some temporary Canadian pilots through a European agency......

[dash8pilot]

Sunwing and canjet hire foreign pilots because the claim they cannot get qualified Canadian pilots. Does that mean anyone with a Canadian atpl with 737ng rating get hired right away?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Well if they claim they need to hire foreigners for lack of qualified Canadians, and there are qualified Canadians available, they should hire those Canadians first, but they can always claim you don't qualify for some reason or another:

They need a Captain and think you are only FO material
They got a confidential bad reference about you from an unnamed ex-employer (you have B/O)
They interviewed you and think you don't fit in their team

And in any case, who is checking ? The applicant tells ESDC they looked for Canadian and didn't find any. Does ESDC post a message stating that they want to hear from Canadians who feel they qualify for the job but were overlooked? No. When the applicant states they found no qualified applicants, ESDC take the applicants word for it.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Sunwing received a new aircraft yesterday: C-GNCH, a brand new B-737-800 right off the production line. It is a lease from Ansett (AWAS).



The fleet is now at 33 aircraft, unless it arrived to replace an aircraft which is due to leave.

[Rogerdodger2]

AirCanada fleet 210
Air Transat fleet 25
Enerjet fleet 3
Jazz fleet 130
Porter fleet 28

Thanks to the fleet size police for the update
Ridiculous...

P.S. I know the numbers aren't accurate so relax...

[Gilles Hudicourt]

AirCanada fleet 210
Air Transat fleet 25
Enerjet fleet 3
Jazz fleet 130
Porter fleet 28

Thanks to the fleet size police for the update
Ridiculous...

P.S. I know the numbers aren't accurate so relax...

Air Transat 400 Canadian pilots and 21 aircraft, 19 Canadian pilots per aircraft.
Sunwing, 250 Canadian pilots, and 33 aircraft, 7.6 Canadian pilots per aircraft.

Ridiculous indeed.......

[Checklist]

Is Sunwing planning anything in Europe this summer?

[North Shore]

AirCanada fleet 210
Air Transat fleet 25
Enerjet fleet 3
Jazz fleet 130
Porter fleet 28

Thanks to the fleet size police for the update
Ridiculous...

P.S. I know the numbers aren't accurate so relax...

Air Transat 400 Canadian pilots and 21 aircraft, 19 Canadian pilots per aircraft.
Sunwing, 250 Canadian pilots, and 33 aircraft, 7.6 Canadian pilots per aircraft.

Ridiculous indeed.......

15 - 0 for Gilles!

[Sunwing738]

So I was looking at the flight schedule on Sunwing's new Winter 2014-2015 brochure and noticed a ton of new routes. Of course they are all subject to change but these are the new routes they are planning:

Sudbury - Cayo Coco (1 Weekly Wednesday Service) No surprise, they swap destinations every year out of YSB.
Val D’Or – Santa Clara (1 Weekly Tuesday Service)
Ottawa – St. Maarten (1 Weekly Monday Service)
Saskatoon – Ixtapa (1 Weekly Thursday Service)
Regina – Ixtapa (1 Weekly Thursday Service)
Edmonton – Ixtapa (1 Weekly Thursday Service)
Quebec City – Panama (1 Weekly Friday Service)
Vancouver – Grand Bahama (1 Weekly Friday Service)


Now for the real reason I posted here...

Vancouver – Punta Cana (1 Weekly Monday Service) Dist. 3206nm
Calgary – Punta Cana (1 Weekly Monday Service) Dist. 2912nm
Edmonton – Punta Cana (1 Weekly Monday Service) Dist. 2956nm
Edmonton – Liberia (1 Weekly Sunday Service) Dist. 2900nm

I know they initially planned these routes this year however it fell though. Now that their 738's are scimitar equipped, will they have the range to make these routes non-stop? Sunwing states that the max range of their 738's is 3721nm, that seems a little high, most 738's are in and around 3100nm range depending on the load. YVR, YYC & YEG - PUJ would most definitely require a fuel stop on the return trip if they operated they 738 on those routes.

Wondering where they will get the metal from to operate these longer routes. I've always thought Thomson would lease them a 757 for longer flights but it has never happened. Maybe Sunwing will pick up a few aircraft of their own to fill these routes?

[BarryJohnson]

I actually do think that a few years ago, Sunwing hired some temporary Canadian pilots through a European agency......

Gill! Mon Ami, I thought you only reported facts and that sounds like conjecture? I'm starting to wonder if you get some enjoyment out of your SWG bashing! Which would negate your argument that you are here for all of us "Canadian Pilots". Isn't it simply their company policies you have objections with? And since we are on the topic, et d'un Québécois a un autre...I know for a fact that in the past Transat only hired pilots who could speak French! I guess they were all Canadian though, well kinda! It's unfortunate that no one started a hate on them back then and we could have all jumped on that wagon as well! Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

[Dick]

I guess he's done.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I actually do think that a few years ago, Sunwing hired some temporary Canadian pilots through a European agency......

Gill! Mon Ami, I thought you only reported facts and that sounds like conjecture? I'm starting to wonder if you get some enjoyment out of your SWG bashing! Which would negate your argument that you are here for all of us "Canadian Pilots". Isn't it simply their company policies you have objections with? And since we are on the topic, et d'un Québécois a un autre...I know for a fact that in the past Transat only hired pilots who could speak French! I guess they were all Canadian though, well kinda! It's unfortunate that no one started a hate on them back then and we could have all jumped on that wagon as well! Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

Conjecture ? Well I have the name, email, phone number of a person that tells me he is Canadian and that he was hired by Sunwing as a Captain through a European company for a winter contract. I know this not through a third party but from the individual himself. If its really important for you, Ì can get copies of his passport, logbook, work contract, pay stubs, etc and turn this "conjecture" into hard fact.........

As for your language issue with AT, I was hired in Oct 98, at a time when AT was 12 years old, as a B-757 F/O. Within the first month of working there I flew with several AT captains who had been working at AT for many years and did not speak one word of French...... They had been hired in the first years of AT.
I began my line indoctrination in late Dec 98. On Jan 13th 1999, I did an YYZ-PDL (Azores) return flight with Harry Kelley, in English, and on Jan 14th 1999, I did an YYZ Acapulco Huatulco double stop with Keith Humphrey, in English also......neither spoke French...... These were my first two revenue flights at AT after completing my line indoc.......

On my course in the Oct 98 batch, there were 18 pilots. Several were ex Air Atlantic pilots which did not speak a word of French.

This language claim you make is B/S........ and I have no bone in this, I speak four languages.

As for "Sunwing bashing", I never posted anything on Sunwing that was not related to foreign pilots........
The day Sunwing stops this practice, no one at Sunwing will ever hear from me again......

[Sasquash]

Gilles mentioned that: ‘’ The day Sunwing stops this practice, no one at Sunwing will ever hear from me.’’

The reason rests in the fact that each and every Canadian airline pilots, including the many, many detractors of Gilles, will continue to fly in our country, in part, under the umbrella of the never ending work by Gilles and his team.

I have looked at this issue from its beginning and to this day, I am astounded of the various ridiculous statements made by some individuals on this website.

Gentleman! Surely by now, you must realize the issue, (and only issue) has been the improper use of Foreign License Validation Certificate by Transport Canada?

To simplify the issue, if you have a Transport Canada issued commercial or ATPL, you may work with any 705 Canadian operations. That’s it, that’s all !! If you don’t have a Transport Canada issued pilot license, somebody is going to call you on it ! Gilles did!

Does I really matter which English or French pilot was hired by AT? Really??

In case somebody has missed this fact, Sunwing has now posted some job advertisement to pilots holding Transport Canada issued ATPL. Is it because the company had an epiphany? Is it because of Gilles’ work? Is it because the regulator woke up and advised the ‘concerned’ company that maybe this business model was not in everyone’s best interest?

Really who cares! The fact is Canadian pilots are now being considered when they were not before! Let's be thankful! Whomever is responsible for that, why don’t we just say thank you and start sending the resumes??

Food for thoughts: Anyone without a hidden agenda I spoke to, had no problem with this issue.

Sasquash