Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots, Winter 2013-2014

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Both Canjet Airlines and Sunwing Airlines plan to once again hire foreign pilots this coming winter.

Based on the ads I have seen, both here on AvCanada and elsewhere, both companies are gearing up to apply for LMOs to HRSDC on the basis that Canadian pilots who do not have a valid B-737NG type rating are not qualified to fly for them as seasonal pilots.

Like during the previous years, Sunwing may want to also import pilots by asking CIC to authorize foreign pilot work permits under so-called Reciprocal agreements that they claim to have with several foreign airlines.

Last year, Sunwing also wet-leased a number of foreign aircraft with crews. They may do that again this winter.

Unlike the previous years, Canjet this year is also advertising for foreign Captains. The last few years, they had hired only foreign Second-in-Commands, about 32 last year. This year, probably because they lost quite a few pilots who are jumping ship because they feel insecure for their jobs (probably due to their company's contract with Transat which ends less than 12 months from now), I heard that Canjet is looking to hire roughly 50 foreign pilots, a mix of Captains and Second-in-Commands.

Canjet this summer is back to its permanent fleet of 5 B-737-800s and will probably increase that to 12 aircraft in the winter, to fulfill its contractual obligations with Transat.

The numbers for Sunwing are not yet certain (to me). I've heard conflicting versions. One thing is certain is that Sunwing plans to expand from the 29 aircraft they had last winter. What I do not know yet is by how much. I've heard they plan for 31 aircraft, for 32 aircraft, for 34 aircraft and even for 40. My gut feeling is that they will plan to have around 32 for that number came up from several sources.

Last Summer, Sunwing had 10 aircraft on the Canadian Civil Aviation Register. The fleet on the register went up to 25 aircraft during the winter with the addition of 15 short term leases from four European airlines: Thomson, TUIfly, Jetairfly (which all belong to TUI, Sunwing's 49% shareholder) and the rest from Travel Service. The total fleet actually went up to 29 aircraft with the addition of 4 foreign wet-leases, which does not appear on the Canada Civil Aircraft resister (So the 10 aircraft they had in the summer of 2012, 15 additional dry-leases and 4 wet-leases for a total of 29).

When the season ended, I was surprised to find that the sole aircraft aircraft provided by TUIfly, and two of those provided by Travel Service remained on the Canadian Civil Register, registered under Sunwing. That brought their summer fleet up to 13 (instead of 10 the previous summer).

In the summer of 2012, out of the 10 aircraft Sunwing operated, 4 had left on wet-leases to Europe and 6 had remained in Canada. In the summer of 2013, seven aircraft went on wet-leases to Europe and again, only 6 remained in Canada. So the increase in the summer fleet from 10 to 13 from 2012 to 2013 was not to satisfy a local demand in capacity, but to satisfy an overseas need for wet-leases.

The weird thing is that the two 737s that Travel Service has leased to Sunwing for the winter and that remained on the Canadian register in the summer of 2013, were sent right back to Travel Service as wet-leases from Sunwing to Travel Service (along with another Sunwing aircraft).

In the same vein, the 737 that was leased by TUIfly to Sunwing in the fall of 2012, remained on the Canadian Register and went right back to Europe on a wet-lease to Thomson (along with three other Sunwing aircraft)

Why this game of musical chairs with their aircraft ? I think I know why. See below.

So right now, seven of Sunwing's 13 aircraft are on wet-leases to Europe.

The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) which now regulates aviation matter in the European Union, passed legislation that require foreign licensed pilots wanting to fly European registered commercial aircraft to have a EASA member licence. They will allow a Foreign Licence Validation to non EASA licence holders, but just once in a lifetime, and only for 12 months.

With this restriction, there is no way that Sunwing pilots can go every year to Europe and fly European Registered aircraft to fulfill their end of the Reciprocal agreements which they signed with Thomson Airlines of the UK, with Travel Service of the Czech Republic and with a couple others. So to by-pass that licencing requirement, they have been sending wet-leases to Europe instead of pilots and dry-leased aircraft. It seems that they still require a Foreign Licence Validation because there is also an EASA clause that requires foreign licensed pilots to need a Validation, even to fly a foreign registered aircraft, if such aircraft is based in the EU.

This year, Immigration Canada (CIC), which oversees the the reciprocal agreements and issues the work permits t foreign pilots under this scheme, finally recognized and stated that pilots sent on wet-lease do not count towards fulfilling the reciprocal agreements. This of course had been our position from day one. What Sunwing had been doing, is, after asking Immigration Canada for reciprocal work permits for foreign pilots on the basis of Canadian pilots sent overseas on wet-leases (and obtaining such permits), they had been going to knock on the door of the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) and asking for permission to import additional foreign pilot on wet-leases, which CIC knew nothing about and had not approved of.
We had been telling CIC that either all wet-lease pilots in both directions should count, or none should. Since the wet-lease pilots who enter Canada are not under the control of CIC but of the CTA, CIC finally ruled that wet-lease pilots sent overseas did not count towards reciprocity.

Sunwing has been advised of this by CIC (in front of representatives of other airlines and ALPA and ACPA) and is probably preparing alternate plans to imports it foreign pilot (LMOs with HRSDC and Wet-Leases with the CTA).

This summer, every single one of the Sunwing pilots on European deployment are on wet-leases, meaning they are in Europe flying Canadian Registered Aircraft on the Sunwing AOC.

They are :

C-FTLK, C-FYLC, C-FLZR and C-FYUH on wet-lease to Thomson.

C-FTDW, C-GVVH and C-FTAH on wet-lease to Travel Service.

None of the Caandian pilots flying these aircraft should qualify as Reciprocal pilots in order to allow Sunwing to import foreign pilots under that program.


The good news is that Canjet and Sunwing have been hiring Canadians since this spring, both 737 and non 737 rated Canadians. Although they published ads looking for 737 rated Canadians, they also hired many non rated pilots. My information indicates that Sunwing presently employs roughly 210 to 220 Canadian pilots, an increase of 40 to 50 from the end of the winter season. I was further told that they plan to employ another 30 seasonal Canadian pilot this fall.

Of course, since they increased their "permanent" fleet of aircraft from 10 to 13, they need roughly 42 additional pilots to man these aircraft, which explains the spring hiring. But even with the additional 30 pilots in the fall, they will still only employ 240 to 250 Canadian pilots.

Even if they were to only operate 31 aircraft this coming winter, they would still need a total work force of about 372 pilots. That means they will still require 120 to 130 foreign pilots in Canada. If they plan on having more aircraft than 31, the need for pilots will be proportionate (about 12 extra pilots per additional aircraft over 31).

I will of course keep all updated on how all this unfolds.......

If anyone has any additional information on the above subject, please feel free to post it here or PM or email me and I will post.

[OPEC6-Heavy]

Gilles,

By your numbers which are almost correct, 250 Sunwing pilots and 120 European pilots. I would say that's better than 1:1 ratio and much better than last years imbalance. I think this is a huge improvement and is a sustainable ratio going forward, your view on not counting SWG pilots deploying to Europe this summer to the reciprocal program is ridiculous and just shows you will never be satisfied. Again who cares under what "government scheme" they where sent over, (wet-lease, Dry-lease etc.. these are commercial decision in which government has no business) the fact is pilots are being sent to both sides of the pond Summer and Winter. Your argument was based on pure numbers and when the numbers are actually in line you find an angle via technicalities in government regulations that you so despise. You've hit the bottom my friend. But keep up the good work.

[TFTMB heavy]

It's also the government's view to not count them!

[Dick]

Well, as long as we can all agree that the governments view is the satisfactory final answer in all of this, then at least we have a viewpoint with which to reference this entire debate.

[bearinmind]

Great work Gilles. Your tireless campaign to keep Canadians in Canada and working has produced 40-50 pilots here. I could not do what you do every day, and I am in awe at your dedication. If I am ever lucky enough to meet you, the drinks are on me. Great work.

[andy_mtl]

I 100% Back up Gilles work from the flight deck of the mighty Navajo I fly and have lots of respect for him.

I just found out that this winter Canjet will be wet leasing 3 airplanes with crew from TuI Germany,
Not only... Even aprx 20 in charge flight attendants. Now this I find unusual.
The same source said apparently they want to adopt the 50 to 1 FA as it is legal in Germany and for those flights with German front end and in charge... I am not too sure about that
Can someone explain wether or not that would be legal?
Thanks

[ea306]

The same source said apparently they want to adopt the 50 to 1 FA as it is legal in Germany and for those flights with German front end and in charge... I am not too sure about that
Can someone explain wether or not that would be legal?
Thanks

1FA in 50 rule is also legal here in Canada now. The AOC holder just needs to apply to TC for the Ops Spec.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

This is off topic so I put it in a new thread.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91077&p=835132#p835132

[CD]

The same source said apparently they want to adopt the 50 to 1 FA as it is legal in Germany and for those flights with German front end and in charge... I am not too sure about that
Can someone explain wether or not that would be legal?
Thanks

1FA in 50 rule is also legal here in Canada now. The AOC holder just needs to apply to TC for the Ops Spec.

I think it's a bit more involved than that. It looks like an exemption is required, not an Ops Spec, based on what WestJet received:

"PURPOSE
This exemption authorizes WestJet Airlines when operating pursuant to subpart 705 of the CARs to operate each aeroplane of its fleet with at least one flight attendant for each unit of 50 passenger seats (or portion thereof) installed on the same deck of the aeroplane."

Exemption from section 705.104 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations

[ea306]

Thank you CD.

[Euroview]

Captain Huddicourt

I continue to follow your insesant rambling from the perspective of a pilot operating for the European Airline to which Sunwing have sent 4 aircraft this summer.

It seems in your incredibly one sided argument you continue to miss the big picture. How on earth can you sit there and type, as a professional, that Piots engaged on a Sunwing aircraft flying Thomson passengers cannot qualify for reciprocity? What you are arrogantly advocating is it's quite ok to send, and provide employment for somewhere in the order of 40 Canadians but when the Thomson Pilots dare enter Canada and start flying Sunwing passengers you have your usual issues.

My numbers will only be approximate however well within the ball park required for this ridiculous argument, that last year Thomson sent approximately 28 pilots to SWG. In the order of 40 canadians have been engaged flying in UK.

Your only defence cites the fact that Canadian Pilots fly Canadian aircraft whilst the Europeans come to Canada and fly Canadian Aircraft. It strikes me you want to have your cake and eat it! Do you think any self respecting Thomson crew member would be happy to have 40 Canadians flying Thomson passengers whilst being precluded from winter employment. I think the European Unions may have something to say about that!

What I suggest to you is, continue your fight where appropriate, no nationality should have their Pilots jobs taken by other nations Pilots. However where two progressive companies are successfully providing relatively lucrative seasonal employment for their Pilots you should be big enough to acknowledge it and support it!!

No doubt you will respond with your myriad of numbers, licences, aircraft reg's - but the bottom line is the same - employment is provided for Canadians at a similar ratio (in favour of Candians) to that provided to European Pilots.

I trust that finally you will be open minded to a European colleagues viewpoint!!
Euroview

[B738]

Well said, Euroview!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Dear Euroview,

I sincerely apologize if the simple truth was lost on you because of the myriad of data and regulations I posted here to support my position, so for you I will make it short and simple.

First of all, let me state that I am 200% behind reciprocity. In theory its good, its desirable, it is to be encouraged and preserved. But this is not what is going on. You cannot look at the Sunwing-Thomson relationship in a vacuum. What were TUIfly pilots doing in Canada ?

Last year Sunwing sent 4 aircraft and about 50 pilots on wet lease to Europe.

In "reciprocity" they operated 2 Boeing 767s and 29 Boeing 737s when they only employed about 170 Canadian pilots.

I'll let you do your own arithmetic lest I confuse you with too much data. You can come to your own conclusions on how one sided those reciprocal agreements were and who were the real net beneficiaries.

If you think that the Sunwing-Thomson reciprocal deal is good for both parties and is worth preserving, perhaps you should join me in my efforts to convince Sunwing and TUI to stick to reciprocity and drop the extras. If they continue to cheat and abuse, it will only compromise what could have been a great partnership.

Regards

Gilles Hudicourt

PS I doubt we would even be having this conversation if one summer, for 6 months, Thomson ended up having more Canadian pilots in Thomson flight decks than European pilots. This is what is going on at Sunwing.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Captain Huddicourt

I continue to follow your insesant rambling from the perspective of a pilot operating for the European Airline to which Sunwing have sent 4 aircraft this summer.

It seems in your incredibly one sided argument you continue to miss the big picture. How on earth can you sit there and type, as a professional, that Piots engaged on a Sunwing aircraft flying Thomson passengers cannot qualify for reciprocity?
Euroview

I would be happy to see 4 Thomson aircraft and crew on Wet-lease to Sunwing this next winter.

I would also be very happy to see 3 Travel Service aircraft on wet-lease to Sunwing this winter, for this is exactly the number of aircraft Sunwing sent on wet-lease to Travel Service.

Seven Canadian aircraft and crew were sent over to Europe for the summer, I would be satisfied to see seven European aircraft and crew come and fly in Canada this next winter. But not one single more than seven.

If Sunwing wants to increase its winter fleet beyond what these seven extra aircraft allow, let them do it with dry-leased aircraft manned by Canadian crews.

I think this is fair and acceptable and that is, and has always been my position.

PM me and I'll provide you with my phone number so we can discuss this over the phone if you wish. I can explain it to you clearly and you'll have a much better understanding of the problem than by reading reams of pages here......

[richardhead]

Really though. You can say what you want about Gilles. Canadian pilots need more people advocating their stance because the industry and government won't. However, I want to see what he has to say when Transat bring s foreign pilots over? That will be a true test of his meddle.

[OPEC6-Heavy]

Well said Euroview !!
Ignore the self serving rants of this individual. Impossible to reason or educate such a narrow focused human-being on this particular topic.

[dashx]

......

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Several sources indicate that Sunwing plans a fleet of about 32 aircraft this winter. If the new wet-lease policy allows them to import as wet-lease, a number of aircraft equal to the number they exported, they will be allowed to import 7 foreign aircraft under wet-leases this winter.

That means that they will operate 25 Canadian Registered Aircraft under the Sunwing AOC. At 6 crews, that would require about 300 Canadian pilots.

Last I heard, Sunwing employed about 220 Canadian pilots and planned to employ another 30 by fall 2013. It all that is correct, it would just be short by 50 pilots.......

They should be employed locally......

[rudder]

Several sources indicate that Sunwing plans a fleet of about 32 aircraft this winter. If the new wet-lease policy allows them to import as wet-lease, a number of aircraft equal to the number they exported, they will be allowed to import 7 foreign aircraft under wet-leases this winter.

That means that they will operate 25 Canadian Registered Aircraft under the Sunwing AOC. At 6 crews, that would require about 300 Canadian pilots.

Last I heard, Sunwing employed about 220 Canadian pilots and planned to employ another 30 by fall 2013. It all that is correct, it would just be short by 50 pilots.......

They should be employed locally......

My guess?

TFWP/FLVC will be wound down to zero within the next three winter travel seasons. Only option left will be wet-lease.

Release indicates 'flexibility' for seasonal travel fluctuations.

I am guessing that SW will be looking to increase C-reg wet lease summer deployments to Europe up from 7 to eventually as many as 15 airframes and in return SW will be permitted to bring up to 15 wet lease airframes in G-reg to Canada each winter.

If the airframes are being utilized at a rate of 18 hours per day, staffing will look more like 15-18 pilots per fully utilized airframe. I would expect a year round C-reg SW fleet of 15-20 staffed only by CDN pilots. Permanent list would be 300+ up from just 150 one year ago.

Cannot wait to see the details. However, I do not believe that any of this will affect or alter the SW winter 2013-2014 business or staffing plan. Changes will apply to summer deployments to Europe/UK in summer 2014.

[gonnabeapilot]

I must say, I'm very disappointed that winter wet-leases are the direction that things appear to be taking when it comes to legislating a method for European pilots to work here over the winter. I've always been a vocal supporter of 1:1 reciprocity, however the traditional method that has been used by Sunwing was the one that benefited Canadian pilots the most. (This is, of course, ignoring the legal mumbo jumbo about how pilots were being counted and the ridiculous lop-sidedness the program has taken over the last few years). Traditionally Canadian pilots at Sunwing working in Europe would go over under wet-lease contracts. It meant that the crews were not required to go through any form of training or license validation, it preserved Sunwing's working terms and conditions and it preserved the seniority system established at the airline. In the winter, European pilots would come to Sunwing and fly mixed-crew on C-Reg Aircraft. This meant that for the Canadian pilots working at Sunwing, their quality of life improved greatly during the winter months. The Europeans went to the bottom of the seniority list (and by doing so, tended to get the worst of the flying and improved every Canadian pilot's shot at getting days off, vacation, etc...) the variety of flying increased as all pilots were able to bid on all flying and the number of bases available for Canadian pilots to bid into increased which allowed Canadian guys from outside of Toronto and Montreal to live in their homes for the winter instead of commuting. It was the perfect scenario and with some modifications to legislation, it would have been easy to employ a 1:1 reciprocity program while keeping this structure.

These days people seem to prefer a wet-lease for wet-lease exchange program. (I'm guessing simply because it involves the least number of changes to existing legislation). But by doing so, the quality of life for Canadians employed by Sunwing will be worse off. Since the wet-lease aircraft can only be crewed by the Foreign pilots that come over with them, it limits the flying available to the Canadians. It also means that certain bases will exclusively be foreign Reg. aircraft with foreign crews, eliminating opportunities for Canadian pilots to live in their homes during the winter months.

It is great to see the that the numbers are starting to even out and that the hiring of Canadian pilots will continue. But now is an important phase in the evolution of this program. For those that have always claimed that they only want what's best for Canadian pilots, I would encourage them to do their due diligence when they advocate for one solution over another, because the decisions they influence will have a very real and lasting impact on the lives of the hundreds of Canadian pilots employed at Sunwing now and well into the future.

*As a bit of a side note from the above rant, it sounds like a big chunk of the Canadian seasonal pilots who have been hired for this winter season will be Jazz pilots on a seasonal leave of absence. There are rumours that, if successful this winter, the program will be formalized a bit more moving forward. I think that this would be great to see and I really hope that both companies can come up with a solution that benefits both of them.