~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

Discuss topics relating to airlines.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
Mister1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:43 pm

~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#1 Post by Mister1 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:09 pm

Hello,

For those currently working with SKV, if you may - please post your experience flying with the company.
Current schedule, pay, lifestyle and future potential. The good and bad.

For those who wish to slam SKV and have nothing to contribute...We heard it ALL...Please vent your frustrations somewhere else.
Thank you for your discipline cooperation.

Cheers! :drinkers:
---------- ADS -----------

Airmanship Police
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#2 Post by Airmanship Police » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:13 pm

Try again without the personal attack.
Bandaid.
---------- ADS -----------

Legacy
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#3 Post by Legacy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:33 pm

The thing is if someone wants to do something that doesn't affect me or my family's life then go for it. When someone does do something that does affect me or my family like contribute to bringing down this industry, then I among many others will voice our opinion and I don't blame them one bit. Pilot's will just never ever get it. We are the dumbest friggin breed on this planet. Hope we are all proud of that.
---------- ADS -----------

proper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:07 am

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#4 Post by proper » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:57 pm

If i start reading how amazing a job with sky is, or how well they pay, or what the benefits are... i will permanently remove myself from this forum as I do not want to be a part of anything that passively endorses that standard. Of course in addition to tasting my lunch again and shaking my head in disapointment and despair, which reflects the current state of our profession.
---------- ADS -----------

proper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:07 am

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#5 Post by proper » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:57 pm

Mind you if we all compared condiitons and pay AGAIN, maybe the boys and girls will smarten up and realize their worth.
---------- ADS -----------

BTyyj
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:11 pm
Location: CYYJ

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#6 Post by BTyyj » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:09 pm

Telling an individual to not take a job in an industry where's there's a gross oversupply of labor, in the hopes of raising the salaries in that industry, is analogous to telling an individual to not drive a truck as it burns more fuel, therefore reducing the supply of fuel and increasing the cost. Sure, if enough individuals were to switch from driving an F-150 to a civic, there would be a dent in the rate at which fuel costs are increasing, but they're still burning gas, therefore reducing the supply and increasing the cost. Similarly in aviation, as long as there's a far greater supply of pilots looking for work than there are jobs, salaries will remain low, no matter how much back-bone pilot's build [within reason, of course].

This isn't a function of individuals purposely undercutting each other. It's simply capitalism, the system our entire economy is based on. For those of you who disagree, please name even one single industry with a gross oversupply of labor, that doesn't have a wholly engrossing union or other level of oversight, where the workers are seemingly well paid.

What I find laughable is the complete ignorance of the fact that the issues seen in aviation are in fact not exclusive to this industry, despite what some posters would have you think. It's occurring in many, many industries, and for similar reasons.

Until there's a real reduction in the supply of pilots, you will not see any tangible increase in salaries, no matter how much you bitch and moan to individuals on these forums.
---------- ADS -----------
I'm glad I'm not judgmental like all you smug, superficial idiots

User avatar
Changes in Latitudes
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2396
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:47 am
Location: The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful.

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#7 Post by Changes in Latitudes » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:20 am

Off topic
---------- ADS -----------

BTyyj
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:11 pm
Location: CYYJ

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#8 Post by BTyyj » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:08 am

Off topic.
---------- ADS -----------
I'm glad I'm not judgmental like all you smug, superficial idiots

Sleeve of Wizard
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 5:31 am

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#9 Post by Sleeve of Wizard » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:59 am

Mister1 wrote:Hello,

For those currently working with SKV, if you may - please post your experience flying with the company.
Current schedule, pay, lifestyle and future potential. The good and bad.

For those who wish to slam SKV and have nothing to contribute...We heard it ALL...Please vent your frustrations somewhere else.
Thank you for your discipline cooperation.

Cheers! :drinkers:
I think you're throwing the blinders on if you're not interested in hearing the "slamming" of Sky. You need to hear BOTH sides, there's obviously one side that speaks louder than the other.

I know about 10 pilots working for Sky. They are/were all there out of necessity; lost a job somewhere else. They all hate it for various reasons. The only "positvie" I've heard from them is that they like the travel benefits and are using Sky as a stepping stone to eventually get a flying job in the Middle East.
---------- ADS -----------

Gilles Hudicourt
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1957
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:51 am
Location: YUL

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#10 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:51 am

Well there are a lot of people banging fellow pilots on these threads, criticizing them for the work conditions and salaries they accept. I don't. We have a unique type of profession with all sorts of constraints. Our qualifications expire and the longer its been that you haven't flown, the less likely you are to be hired. Our PPCs expire. Our Instrument ratings expire. And when we are out of a job, renewing an IFR out of pocket is expensive. Renewing a PPC when out of a job is impossible.

So when we are out of a job, unlike many other Canadian workers, we don't go stand in line at the Employment Office to apply for EI. We get on the phone, we pack a carry-on and hop in our car, take a flight and go looking for a job. Even a temporary one. To stay current. To stay relevant. To preserve what we painfully acquired over the years, at great financial and personal cost.

Yet there are people who, while sitting at cozy and secure job, will criticize others for accepting a job that they feel does not pay well enough.

Someone posted here that there is an oversupply of pilots in Canada. Yet while we are writing this, Sunwing and Canjet have a bunch of foreign pilots working for them, authorized to do so by ESDC after the employers claimed there were no qualified pilots in Canada to fill those jobs. CIC then granted these foreign pilots a Canadian work permit and Transport Canada followed up by granting them an FLVC. And while over 100 foreign pilots are flying Canadian 737 at Sunwing and Canjet, we are arguing about Canadian pilots who accept those Sky Regional Jobs at shitty pay.

Canjet and Sunwing claim they need to hire foreigners because the work is seasonal. Who would prefer to work six months out of the year as a Sunwing captain Sunwing at $11,000 per month than work full time at Sky Regional ? A few have already told me they would. Canjet foreign Captains are earning $10,800 per month NET! That is right. NET! They have no deductions whatsoever taken from that.

How is that possible ? Because we allow it. We think there is nothing we can do about it. Because we are afraid to be marked as trouble makers and jeopardize our careers. Because we are afraid!

It's so much safer to attack a fellow Canadian pilot, himself a victim of the system, than to attack the system that is making victims of all us.

Sky Regional, Georgian, Encore etc are dreaming of importing a foreign model of feeders into Canada. The kind where you pay to fly. The kind where you pay for your training. In Indonesia, there are foreign 737 Captains working for free......
---------- ADS -----------

photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6062
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Part of the "me, me, me" crowd, and loving every second of it.

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#11 Post by photofly » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:31 pm

We have a unique type of profession with all sorts of constraints. Our qualifications expire and the longer its been that you haven't flown, the less likely you are to be hired.
Sigh.

Everyone is unique; everyone is special.

Try working in IT: six months break and and you're at the back of the pack, regardless of how many "hours" you have.
---------- ADS -----------
Control the horizon, control the airplane

User avatar
bandaid
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2398
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#12 Post by bandaid » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:52 pm

This topic is going nowhere. Play nice please. This is a friendly warning. If you can not answer this question in the manner it was asked then please do not answer it at all.
Bandaid.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Changes in Latitudes
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2396
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:47 am
Location: The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful.

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#13 Post by Changes in Latitudes » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:03 pm

.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by Changes in Latitudes on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mister1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#14 Post by Mister1 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:06 pm

Guys,
Thank you for your comments from both sides of the debate. Some make very relevant points. However, this forum already has pages full of the "right or wrong" discussion -
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85934&p=792392&hili ... l+#p792392

The purpose of THIS thread is to gauge what is actually going on at SKV today, from people that work there.
The only post so far with a reply to that is quoted below, but it's still 2nd hand vague "My buddies" rumors:
Sleeve of Wizard wrote:...I know about 10 pilots working for Sky. They are/were all there out of necessity; lost a job somewhere else. They all hate it for various reasons. The only "positvie" I've heard from them is that they like the travel benefits and are using Sky as a stepping stone to eventually get a flying job in the Middle East.
It's always frustrating finding relevant info on AvCan due to numerous irrelevant rant fests by anonymous keyboard junkies. So please curb your enthusiasm.
If we all stop bashing SKV and our fellow pilots for 5 minutes, maybe...one of them will surface and say what they think.
It would be valuable and informative to hear it directly from the source. (Feel free to PM me if you prefer to stay off the forum)
Thank you!
---------- ADS -----------

Cisbour
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:36 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#15 Post by Cisbour » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:12 pm

My next question is where are all these captains at Sky going? They're posting an ad every 3 month for captains on the Q. Are they leaving for the Middle East? Last I heard at Emirates, they want some boeing or Airbus time, so sticking around at Sky wouldn't help to achieve that..
And is the pay really 65-70k for left seat? Really?
---------- ADS -----------

rudder
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1530
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#16 Post by rudder » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:35 pm

Mister1 wrote:Guys,
Thank you for your comments from both sides of the debate. Some make very relevant points. However, this forum already has pages full of the "right or wrong" discussion -
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85934&p=792392&hili ... l+#p792392

The purpose of THIS thread is to gauge what is actually going on at SKV today, from people that work there.
The only post so far with a reply to that is quoted below, but it's still 2nd hand vague "My buddies" rumors:
Sleeve of Wizard wrote:...I know about 10 pilots working for Sky. They are/were all there out of necessity; lost a job somewhere else. They all hate it for various reasons. The only "positvie" I've heard from them is that they like the travel benefits and are using Sky as a stepping stone to eventually get a flying job in the Middle East.
It's always frustrating finding relevant info on AvCan due to numerous irrelevant rant fests by anonymous keyboard junkies. So please curb your enthusiasm.
If we all stop bashing SKV and our fellow pilots for 5 minutes, maybe...one of them will surface and say what they think.
It would be valuable and informative to hear it directly from the source. (Feel free to PM me if you prefer to stay off the forum)
Thank you!
The people who work there are probably too embarrassed to discuss their WAWCON in public. Pilot turnover numbers tell their own story.

SKV may be cheaper but you also get what you pay for and there have been suggestions that may be the case when it comes to operations at SKV. It serves another purpose which is to set a lower bar for use in benchmarking by those that stand to gain from doing so.

Not sure that is a model to be emulated but WJ certainly is trying to do so with Encore.
---------- ADS -----------

RickPilot33
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:21 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#17 Post by RickPilot33 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:45 pm

I would actually like to see a forum where someone is not bashing a company.

I am wondering if Sky Regional has any FO openings.
And just for the fun of it, anyone know what a type rating on a Q400 costs? (not that I am planning to pay for it myself)

I would like to work for SKy Regional If I could get a YYZ or YUL base...although I think YUL is probably rare or not possible...

As I read before it has to be about lifestyle... Decent pay, benefits etc...but if you could have a decent job temporarily before hitting AC or WS and still make in time to see your wife and kids I think it would be a good job...(All depends on your priorities...)

Now anyone with real info and FACTS please enlighten us on Sky Regional....

REgards
---------- ADS -----------

Maxpwr
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:12 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#18 Post by Maxpwr » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:19 pm

You want the truth? Ok here goes.

Pay:
Captain min guarantee year 1 is $73437 based on 65hr min guarantee.
$76335 for more realistic 75hr per month. 85hrs average would get you $79223. 2% uplift per year thereafter.

Health coverage if free for family coverage.
Pension: 2% company match DPSP. It's a start and I keep bugging them to raise it.

Per diems are worth roughly $2500/year gross.(conservatively) (Dash8 single day pairings)

Schedule:
Can be scheduled 20 days\month. Last few months I've actually gone to work 12-14 days a month due to not being called in on reserve. In fact I've only been called in maybe 4 times in a year and a half.
Work rules are not the greatest compared to places like Jazz, believe me. However on a normal day you don't feel a thing. It hurts more during Irops. There's been many times that I've said to myself "they can't do that to me,".... The answer is yes they can. But those days are few and far between. I usually work 9-10hr days, weekends off, Christmas off, summer vacation, home for dinner. The truth is the lifestyle on the Dash is quite good. I won't be returning to my former employer when recalled.

YTZ Dash based is overstaffed right now.
YUL Dash is understaffed. Very easy to get a YUL Dash because people are leaving for places like Transat, some went to Canjet (believe it or not) and Sunwing.

YYZ E75 missing a few people because some went back to Transat.
YUL E75 missing a few for same reason and maybe some left for who knows where.

The truth is that Sky is still a small place that is still trying to find its footing as a company. There are definitely some areas that are disorganized right now but thing s are improving slowly. What I can say for sure is that management actually listens to us about the issues/problems on the line and work to make improvements. The pay has been improved a little since the startup and so has the scheduling. They now have committees for pay and scheduling comprised of management, FA's and Pilots and there's already been improvements in some areas. I can honestly say that I believe they want to make us reasonably happy.

Obviously there are some that wanted concrete information from the inside so there you have it.
---------- ADS -----------

FL320
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#19 Post by FL320 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:28 pm

Hours on a Dash 8 or ERJ145 won't give you any chance in the Middle East at the moment. When airlines talk about ''light Jet'' they mean A320 or 737...
They receive thousands of applications from very young A320 or 737 Captains from Europe at the moment...
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Jack Klumpus
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: In a van down by the river.

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#20 Post by Jack Klumpus » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:18 pm

You sure?

I was a Q4 captain and left to the Middle East to join one of the 'Big 3'. Sure it wasn't for a captain seat, but right seat on a 'light jet', as you described it (i.e. 320).
---------- ADS -----------

altiplano
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2574
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#21 Post by altiplano » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:18 pm

FL320

I know guys that went to the ME off of dash 8s. I know guys that went to the ME off RJs. I know guys that went to the ME of bizjets.

Maybe you're reading too many forum posts from guys "in the know"...
---------- ADS -----------

Mister1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:43 pm

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#22 Post by Mister1 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:30 am

Maxpwr wrote:...Obviously there are some that wanted concrete information from the inside so there you have it.
Maxpwr,
Would you be able to post the updated starting average pay / sked for F.Os?
Thank you very much for taking the time and posting real and relevant info.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
complexintentions
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1772
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: of my pants is unknown.

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#23 Post by complexintentions » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:44 am

Just an aside, yes there are guys at Emirates who came off of RJ's and Embraers. But few, if any, hired within the last several years. Most were hired during a large expansion push. Everyone has their story about the odd outlier but the truth is, the market conditions are such that there are tons of guys with 737 or 320 experience, and they will get the first preference. At the same time, the growth is slowing. Not so much due to bad economic times, just simple math - a fleet can't double every year indefinitely. Many of the new aircraft orders are more for fleet renewal than growth.

All of this presumes someone would even WANT to work in the Middle East. But that's another topic for another thread. But I can state with some knowledge that unless you've got decent experience on something with a MTOW >55 tons, you won't be considered. Even if you do, it is highly competitive. Sorry. But I'd rather be blunt than have people toiling away for peanuts for years under a mistaken impression, in the hopes it will take them to the big planes/money.

Maxpwr, thanks for the Sky pay quote, but what it doesn't mention is the starting wage and time to upgrade, which would be somewhat relevant when mentioning a Year 1 captain wage, no? 80k to fly a DHC8 doesn't sound THAT bad, considering what certain operators are paying their 737 captains! But I assume there are no DE captains at Sky?
---------- ADS -----------
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.

proper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:07 am

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#24 Post by proper » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:47 am

OK can someone explain the pay structure regarding base pay? A Sky skipper told me last year that the salary is broken into two parts. First part is a base pay paid out every month, the second is the hourly pay paid out only twice a year. In addition if you quit before the six month mark... You lose hourly pay.

He referred to an approx 51000$ a year captain base pay with 26$ an hour paid in a biannual lump sum. Per Diem's were states as 1.40 per flight hour. He was working the 36/7days airline rig doing triple LGA turns from Montreal for 5 days in a row.

If this is true it justifies my position but please correct me and state the facts. One can get mad at the individual yes but we all have a mortgage to pay. I strongly disagree with supporting such an operation but my gripe lies with the enabling parties behind this disgraceful renumeration and conditions. A jazz dash fo friend of mine made 77000 on last years T4, 12000$ in after tax per diem, combined pension contributions of around 10000$ and great benefits (long the and short term disability albeit expensive). All this in addition to a contract that has you work 13-15 days a month as a senior fo. Its not Transat, Air Canada or Westjet but I would sit much easier as a pax knowing that financial strain is not affecting my front end crew. We are professional insurance policies and every pax would pay quadruple the price if the plane was on fire.

As I digress, please confirm or correct Sky regional facts stated above. Also is there a pension? What is the benefits package/reserve rules/ duty rigs/ max days worked in a row. Is it Cars or better? And then of course what ACTUALLY happens on the line regarding maintenance issues and captains authority. You want facts? So do I, so please fellow skiers... State the facts.
---------- ADS -----------

proper
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:07 am

Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#25 Post by proper » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:51 am

I'll assume the wawcon are as stated or worse if we receive no answer.
---------- ADS -----------

Post Reply

Return to “General Airline Industry Comments”