~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

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Inverted2
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#26 Post by Inverted2 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:12 pm

They just posted ads for EMB and Dash Captains again. Are there not upgradeable FOs there? The fact that they have to keep posting ads makes me think it can't be a great place to work at. And one of the above posts says $2500 perdiems for the year? I can almost get that in 2 months where I am.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#27 Post by Maxpwr » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:29 pm

Whew that's a long list so here goes...

I should have included the FO starting salary, here it is...

Minimum monthly GUARANTEE is 65 hrs regardless of how little you work is $44226/yr
75hrs average a month is $45990/yr
85hrs average a month is $47754/yr

Captain is
$73437/yr at 65hrs MINIMUM
$76335/yr at 75hrs
$79223/yr at 85hrs

Those are just examples to show total compensation at various monthly average hours.

SALARY IS COMPRISED OF a base and flight credits paid every month. Don't ask me why they went this way, I find it just complicates things but in the end your pay stub shows a blended hourly rate anyway and that's how those numbers above are calculated. As you can see, working more hours per month doesn't really increase your yearly salary that much.

For example FO base is $31200/yr + flight credits of $14/hr.
Captain base is $52000/yr + flight credits of $23/hr.

There is also a 5% minimum guaranteed bonus paid quarterly. This is how we arrive at the total salaries posted above.

A previous poster mentioned something about credits paid twice a year? Never heard of that but the old "contract" language might have sounded similar but that's not at all how it works. The old guarantee was a minimum yearly credits guarantee but that was dropped in order to adopt a monthly minimum of 65hrs. You see in the beginning guys only got base pay during training. So when the Embraer expansion began and sim slots got pushed back and delayed we had people starving on the base pay only. Company listened to the problem and boom, 65hr minimum guarantee implemented. Hope that clarifies.

Total salary will increase by 2% each year for three years unless the CPI is higher then that's what we get.

Per diems have gone up slightly but are still really small. $1.60/hr while on duty and I think $3.00 for overnights. Nothing to write home about.

PENSION: yes, as stated before it's a DPSP differed profit sharing plan. Just jargon meaning a defined contribution plan. You put in as much as you want and the company matches up the 2%. This is available to anyone after 6 months service. Again nothing to write home about but it's a start. Consider it took Porter years to get a 1% company match! I've made it clear that this is an important area to improve going forward.

BENEFITS:
The usual STD, LTD are quite inexpensive. I think my last LTD deduction was around $50. At Jazz it was hundreds.

Medical is free for individual OR family coverage. The usual 80% dental etc... You can opt for a 100% plan if you choose but you have to pay a premium! no idea how much but if your spouse has coverage then you'd never need the 100% plan.

Parking is subsidized I guess, I see $10 come off my pay check.

RESERVE:
Reserve is mixed in with flying pairings, no reserve blocks. It's 4am-10pm. Usually you get notified the day before because sick people "usually" book off the day before. I've been here 1.5 yrs and have worked maybe 4 times on reserve. Only once got called on the day of at 10am and that was a ferry flight.

Duty times: are CARS or close to it. This is where a low cost carrier saves it's money, with employee productivity. That being said, in normal ops you don't feel a thing. In irrops it can get a little uglier as you can Get reassigned and they can basically do what they want with you within your duty day. Right now there's no real protection of your block. I think they are working on this though in the flight/duty committee. Max days worked? I don't know if there's anything written but I haven't seen more than 5 in a row. As for rest periods, these aren't exact but I think they schedule for a minimum of 12 at home but it can go as low as 11hrs because of delays. Away from base is 11hr scheduled but as low as 10hrs due to delays.

Maintenance:
I'm on the Dash so I can't comment on the Embraer. It's generally quite good. Never seen more than one MEL at a time. Things break, you snag, they fix. End of story. I can't imagine anything different. As for Captains authority...I've never seen it challenged in any way. I say I want more fuel because of reason x. I get it. I don't like that alternate because of reason y, they change it. End of story. If you are acting within the rules set out in the COM etc then there's no problem. Pretty standard I'd say. Keep in mind this place was built by and run by ex Sky Service. They don't mess around and we're lucky to have em. Same goes for all the experience we picked up from AC and the Middle East. This isn't their first rodeo and nobody's gonna challenge the captains authority in any way.

UPGRADES
Upgrade times depend entirely on the experience of the individual. For some it was 6 months, for others it's still up in the air. Seniority only means you're next as long as you have the min requirements, are good at your job, have the right Attitude, good training record and can get through your captain training. Upgrades are earned, not handed over. The 2000hr wonder that walks in asking "when's my upgrade" probably won't. This should be obvious but apparently not to everyone.

I think that covers most of it. Hope it helps. I prefer facts rather than supposition and I'm sure you do to. I just hesitate to post publicly because I'm sick of hearing what a worthless sack of scumbag s**t I am for working at Sky. If the thread remains civil then I'm happy to answer any questions. Cheers.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#28 Post by proper » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:45 pm

Excellent and honest response, much appreciated. We should all look at facts. You can't stop the individual but I sincerely hope for all of you things will improve.

thanks again and here we are...on topic!
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#29 Post by FluxValve » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:49 pm

Yearly Base:
Captain: $52,000
First Officer: $31,200

Flight Credit Pay:
Captain: $23/hr
First Officer: $14/hr

In addition to annual base salary, a pilot who is available for the whole year shall be paid for a minimum of 680 flight credit per year. any shortfall shall be made up by the company at yearend. a pilot who leaves the company during the course of the year shall not be entitled to the shortfall.

Flight Credits
flight day=actual flight time
reserve= 0
STNDBY=1 for every 6hours on STNDBY
Trainer (Classroom) =4hrs
Trainer (sim)=6hrs
Trainee (classroom)=3hrs
Trainee (sim)=4hrs
Stat=4hrs
vaca=4hrs
DH=1/2 scheduled time
administration=4hrs
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#30 Post by Mister1 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:10 pm

Maxpwr wrote:I prefer facts rather than supposition and I'm sure you do to....I'm happy to answer any questions. Cheers.
Brilliant! Thank you very much for all the info.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#31 Post by Bandit07 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:51 pm

Does anybody has any idea of what a pairing on EMJ 175 out of Montreal looks like? Is there any overnight or are you back home every night?

B07
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#32 Post by Maxpwr » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:18 am

FluxValve wrote:Yearly Base:
Captain: $52,000
First Officer: $31,200

Flight Credit Pay:
Captain: $23/hr
First Officer: $14/hr

In addition to annual base salary, a pilot who is available for the whole year shall be paid for a minimum of 680 flight credit per year. any shortfall shall be made up by the company at yearend. a pilot who leaves the company during the course of the year shall not be entitled to the shortfall.

Flight Credits
flight day=actual flight time
reserve= 0
STNDBY=1 for every 6hours on STNDBY
Trainer (Classroom) =4hrs
Trainer (sim)=6hrs
Trainee (classroom)=3hrs
Trainee (sim)=4hrs
Stat=4hrs
vaca=4hrs
DH=1/2 scheduled time
administration=4hrs
This information is out if date. Reserve days do not exist and that whole paragraph about the credits no longer exists. Minimum credits is now paid monthly as stated previously.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#33 Post by Maxpwr » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:25 am

Bandit07 wrote:Does anybody has any idea of what a pairing on EMJ 175 out of Montreal looks like? Is there any overnight or are you back home every night?

B07
Lots of single day pairings consisting of double US turns. Also some 2 and 3 day pairings available.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#34 Post by Dockjock » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:50 pm

The way the pay is set up is to maximize cost certainty, while minimizing actual cost. $52,000 is a quite frankly ridiculous minimum for a jet captain. Basically meaningless, but it is there so that the flight credit can be $23 instead of $123/hr. The hourly flight pay at $23 merely ensures that their costs fall very tightly within a band whether or not you fly 65 or 90 hrs. Good for the owners, not good for you. Put another way, would you rather have no minimum and be paid $123/hr? Or even $80? Bingo

Anyway, it exists. You applied. Make the best of it and get out ASAP.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#35 Post by Mr. 3Green » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:18 am

So if I understand correctly, it's the same pay for jet or Q4 captains. Is there expected to be any movement from Q4 to Jet captain in the future?
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#36 Post by Maxpwr » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:55 am

Plenty of movement from Q400 to Jet now and in the future. As spaces become available on the jet they try to fill from within the ranks by seniority in the base. There's 1 Q Captain from YTZ and 1 Q Captain from YUL and 1 Q FO from YUL currently on the Embraer course. They will also seek to upgrade FO's currently on the jet IF they qualify. Otherwise it will be direct entry captains. So theoretically each Embraer course could consist of Q captains moving over, jet FO's upgrading, and direct entry captains.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#37 Post by learcapt » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:34 am

Well done Maxpwr!

Great insight and some honesty about this young and growing company.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#38 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:19 pm

SkyService aka Sky Regional has one of the worst working conditions in Canada! Until they get a union in there, there will continue to be 7-9 pilots leaving per month!

Get in, get your jet time, get out!

If you haven't worked for similar airlines, you just would not understand!
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#39 Post by sanjet » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:34 pm

TrailerParkBoy wrote:SkyService aka Sky Regional has one of the worst working conditions in Canada! Until they get a union in there, there will continue to be 7-9 pilots leaving per month!

Get in, get your jet time, get out!

If you haven't worked for similar airlines, you just would not understand!
Another productive statement... anyways here's my story.


I've been DEC Q400 Captain here in YUL for 1.5 year. Good people to work with.
Some months gets busy sometimes but overall work 17-18 days a month which includes some standby days.
YUL is my home so no problem being on stand by a few days a month, no one gets all reserve blocks, the stand by days are shared amongst pilots unless you bid for it.
Maxpwr's description is pretty accurate regarding pay. I can approach management about anything here and they actually address it here the best they can.

I was laid off from a larger airline here in Canada last year as some of my colleagues here at Skyregional, and I chose to stay here after I noticed how it affected my family positively, getting to see them every night after a 8 hours duty day instead of commuting somewhere.

It's a place where you come to work, do your job safely and go home and you will never get a call home (deice delays, snag aircraft, divert, etc...)

Bottom third on seniority list for Q400 YUL captain, had Christmas week off last year and next december I'm off from Dec-5 to Jan-3 on vacation.

Again that's my honest Q400 side of story.
Analyze it how you want...
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#40 Post by ourkid2000 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:09 pm

Great thread.....glad everyone is keeping cool. Great info on the pilots! I am also curious about more of Skyregionals operation.

- I'm assuming they do all their own maintenance? Skyservice I presume? What facility is used? How has the addition of the E175 affected things like hangar space?
- How about the ground handling? Serviceair? Air Canada?
- SOC & Operations......they do their own or does Air Canada assist?
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#41 Post by Maxpwr » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:29 pm

Maintenance is contracted to Skyservice and they have dedicated Sky Regional guys.

Hangar space is a premium, we have space for 3 175's in YYZ and I think 1 in YUL.

Ground handling is all AC.

Ops is all Sky Regional.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#42 Post by ourkid2000 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:24 pm

Thanks Max!

Interesting that AC does the ground handling. I figured AC would be too expensive! Hangar space must be pretty tough considering Skyservice has multiple customers. How many aircraft does Skyregional operate? Always assumed a handful of Q400's and 10 E175's......or am I way off?
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#43 Post by altiplano » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:59 pm

ourkid2000 wrote:Thanks Max!

Interesting that AC does the ground handling. I figured AC would be too expensive!
same price for ground handling, fuel, mtc, nav fees, gates... just pilots working a few more days for a few buck less and you get the whole infrastructure surrounding it making it's buck too and they still deem it cost effective... I dunno...

how many emb pilots at sky now?
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#44 Post by Mapleflt » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm

Sorry but I'm struggling a bit to follow the logic.

Am I correct in understanding that the pilots who have jobs want those who needed a job and found one to resign so that those who have jobs will be able to garner more wages, is this close.

I will admit to not being an economist but this just dosn't work in my brain. Let me go ask a banker if this makes financial sense.

SkyRegional offered relief at a time when our aviation colleques need a break.

I'll get right back with the answer from the banker, it shouldn't take very long !!!!!!!

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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#45 Post by teacher » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:06 pm

Mapleflt, I generally don't have a beef against those that fly for Sky Regional except maybe those that left AC or Jazz to do so and in the process put downward pressure on the wages and working conditions of your own peers. Neither do I blame those that left other less prosperous jobs who applied everywhere and took the first offer they had offered which may have been Sky Regional. I put the blame squarely where it belongs, Air Canada and it's management. I do not blame other pilots for needing to make a living. I blame Calin and AC's executive suite for making it harder for professional pilots to make that living.

It doesn't help that we pilots make it so easy for them to do it though either.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#46 Post by streets ahead » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:17 am

You guys should have just taken the high road, it is a rare thing on this forum to be able to openly discuss WAWCON without it being shrouded in propaganda.

I echo teacher's post. At the very least you must realize and acknowledge that the very existence of SKY and GGN is a direct threat to the careers at Jazz. So I would hope you understand the frustration.

In defense of the random outburst from BingBong, he is just following the logic of the thread, you seem to deem the WAWCON at SKY as acceptable for the time being. The WAWCON at Jazz is better than SKY, thus in the vacuum of CPA regionals, it is "High WAWCON."

Whats sad is that in the current state of our industry the WAWCON at Jazz can be considered "High." The folks at Jazz are entering the fight of their careers to protect that perceived "High" WAWCON. So please forgive my friend Bing Bong if he got a little testy.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#47 Post by Mapleflt » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:28 am

A single united voice might be the best or only answer to the slide. However questioning the need or choices others make will go no where. Its this exactly the intent of the College of Pilots, yes I am a member and support the concept of a single professional standard for the working condition of all.

Mapleflt
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#48 Post by Mapleflt » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:54 am

I've contributed to a significiant thread drift if not even an full blown hijack. Constructive discussion is good but may I suggest that we move this to its own thread. If anyone wants to continue on the WAWCON line lets leave this thread alone, cheers

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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#49 Post by Maxpwr » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:14 am

Agreed. I will try to answer any further questions from interested parties and ignore the mud-slinging.
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Re: ~ Sky Regional 2014 ~

#50 Post by Never Mind » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:37 pm

BingBong wrote:don't try to justify whoring it out at sky as a sob story...oh we needed jobs....this is all we could find. Thats quite the load from the farm. Scroll back in the employment section during sky's inception to DATE. Lots of 1900, kingair level jobs, corporate jet gigs all over the country.
BingBong,

Finding jobs in aviation isn't so easy, even for highly experienced pilots. Also, keep in mind that the cost of oil has increased four times since 2000, from $25/barrel to $100/barrel today. A significant reason pilots are "whoring it out" at these above mentioned places is because these companies are responding to an economic reality.

Never Mind
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