F*** You. Pay me.

[SuperchargedRS]

THAT IS THE PROBLEM

People are too meek to do that.

It's like a meek hipster break up, "it's not you, it's me"

If people, in a nice way of course, told their company why they were leaving, that another company was offering them say 20% more with paid insurance and more vacation time, maybe after loosing enough people and hearing the same story, they'd step their game up, as it's probably cheaper to offer a little more and have less turnover.

[Sneeker]

Just thought I’d pop by to state the obvious.

“F*** you. Pay me.”

Ah yes the new generation of entitlement... I’ve never spoken like that to my employer or a customer. Instead I got paid on my experience and work ethic, I can attest that I was renumerated quite well. I’ve always been told I would be welcomed back at my old jobs if needed without an interview. Just remember that musical chair can stop quite quickly and what goes around comes around, it’s a small world. You act like a monkey, expect to be paid peanuts....

Not sure if I agree that this is the voice of the "Entitlement Generation", and I think your missing the point. I do agree with you that Musical Chairs can stop as quickly as it started though.

The thing is that it is time for pilots to expect more from employers, that is the point of this thread. Its not time for people to accept lesser standards then the generation of pilots before, for the same job, even though they themselves do not have the same experience. Jazz and Encore serve as a good example for this. 5 years ago it took 3-4 thousand hours to get an interview and they payed, if my memory serves me, somewhere inside the $50k mark. It has been watered down, and its nobodies fault except for us Pilots. Do I blame the kid with 1000 hrs and a years experience flying a King Air who has the opportunity to fly a q4, live in a city or where ever he wants, get flight benefits and a schedule that he can depend on? No. I blame the assholes who went to Encore or Jazz when the companies were desperate or new, and took a huge pay cut from being a Captain making $80k a year, to making $36k a year. "Oh but wait, I get $12k a year in perdiem's and I'll be upgraded to Dash Capt in maybe 2 years time!". I wish that guy would have said "@#$! you pay me" 4 years ago.

I did.

That said I am pretty happy when West Jet or Air Canada starts hiring around the agreeable chaps in Encore and Jazz. Your tears sweeten my coffee in the middle of the night.

[valleyboy]

The only issue I have with that statement is -- you say "fuk you -- pay me" which most are willing to do but there is no bang for the buck and no company loyalty and poor skills because you have not developed them yet. When operators feel your hands on their shoulders the "pay me" phrase seems to lose value because the age of entitlement sees to disregard and moral obligation and "fuk you -- pay me" turns into just "fuk you" I'm outa here sucker - thanks for all that training but I owe you nothing since I'm entitled. The tail is certainly wagging the dog. I much rather do a road trip than ride in the back these days -- LMFAOooooo

I'm not an owner but I am still flying for a living and have managed to make a great living out of it (pay equal or more than a lot of Air Canada positions) and never been employed by a level 1 carrier -- simply put, I am embarrassed buy attitudes of a lot of new pilots coming into the working force.

[Rowdy]

The Effin hippie is back!!

[Anticyclone]

Effin Hippie thank you so much for this subject i owe you one mate.. Im not doing this job for money but there is a minimum not to go below.

Pilots are no ordinary people, pilots journey starts at the age of 4 or 5, Pilots dream about flying aircrafts with closed eyes with open eyes, Pilots love this teacher question at school " What job do you want to do when you get old ?", Pilots always heads up in the sky if not to spot planes to contemplate clouds, Pilots entourage all know about your dream coz you"re loud and proud so yeah Pilots are no ordinary people so “F*** you. Pay me.”

[C.W.E.]

Pilots entourage all know about your dream coz you"re loud and proud so yeah Pilots are no ordinary people so “F*** you. Pay me.”

You are worth what you can negotiate with an employer, and to an employer you " ARE " ordinary because there really is no shortage of pilots.

[77W]

I don’t know about you guys but I’m working where I do to attain the “position of f*** you”.

https://youtu.be/I8kHzZykCI0

[confusedalot]

I don’t know about you guys but I’m working where I do to attain the “position of f*** you”.

https://youtu.be/I8kHzZykCI0

He he he, that's the way you live life.

But really, for those who have not attained this valhalla, suggest a bit of backroom negotiations before telling an employer to you know what.....

[complexintentions]

One of the best days of my life was when I was able to say those magic words - in effect - to the industry and well, working in general lol. I still love flying and the lifestyle, but to not NEED it is the greatest luxury imaginable. A worthy goal to be sure.

But as someone who rides the line of sympathies for both owner/shareholders and employees - I am both - I don't think the OP's sentiment will actually accomplish anything positive for him. Employers pay less because they can, just like pilots take the best opportunities available to them. Getting personal about it is the mark of a loser.

Like a poker player with a bad tell.

[Phlyer]

From the dearly departed 748 ho:

"TO ALL YOU LOW TIME MEN OUT THERE THAT CAME OFF C-QQQQQ KEEP THE FAITH AND TELLIM I DONT TAKE NO CRAP OR LICK NO BAG JUST NO HOW TO FLY THE SHIT OUT OF HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KICK ASS MEN HOPE TO SEEYAHHH UP THERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Liftdump]

I miss 748 ho

[B208]

Employees will end up at the company they deserve, employers will end up with the staff they deserve.

[NobodyCares]

Pilot A and Pilot B come into a room... Pilot A Fack you.. pay me... Pilot B... I'll clean your toilets too for some turbine time (Pilot B also knows in 1 year he'll be flying at Jazz or Encore)

[rookiepilot]

Just thought I’d pop by to state the obvious.

With demand exceeding supply in the pilot market for the first time in a very long time, it behooves all of us to remember what to say whenever ANYONE brings it up.

“F*** you. Pay me.”

Say it to every employer. You want loyalty? You want my labour? After gleefully driving salaries into the toilet, gutting benefits, sending greenhorns out in garbage equipment?

“F*** you. Pay me.”

Say it to the public. After refusing to allow carriers to compete on nothing but price, expecting limousine service for the cost of a taxi ride, launching into hysterics every time you got bad feelings?

“F*** you. Pay me.”

Say it to the media, your MP, whoever, whenever you get the chance. This is not a crisis, it does not need a special program. There’s not a single a**hole out there who lost a moments peace profiting from an excess of supply in our profession. Now it’s our turn.

“F*** you. Pay me.”

That attitude might work. For a little while in the hottest labour market.

I'm curious though if this is wise long term advice.

Let's assume I'm an owner hiring pilots during a period like now. (I'm not in this business, BTW)

2 come in. One says, indirectly or not, what you are saying. Attitude. The other is completely professional, polite, helpful.

Cause I'm screaming for pilots, I hire you both. And pay you.

Fast forward a few years.

Which pilot first gets promoted?
Or ---
Which pilot first gets laid off when the inevitable economic slowdown happens?

Did I mention -- business guys talk? They share information about the troublemakers. Think about it, before shooting off mouth.

Won't always be the pilots market it is today. That you can count on. It's already turning under your feet, you just don't know it.

So it's a choice. Have attitude, shoot off mouth, and see in the long run where it gets you. Or keep mouth shut, and do your job.

Might be harsh, but employees don't have the automatic right to have attitude. There is little, personally, I despise more. Shock to some, I know. That's a privilege, not a right.

I'm simply writing to the slightly more thoughtful out there.

[Tips Up]

[quote=Anticyclone post_id=1026350 time=1516587308 user_id=47767

Pilots are no ordinary people, pilots journey starts at the age of 4 or 5, Pilots dream about flying aircrafts with closed eyes with open eyes, Pilots love this teacher question at school " What job do you want to do when you get old ?", Pilots always heads up in the sky if not to spot planes to contemplate clouds, Pilots entourage all know about your dream coz you"re loud and proud so yeah Pilots are no ordinary people so “F*** you. Pay me.”
[/quote]

No. You are ordinary. Just as I am ordinary, my neighbour is ordinary, the Prime Minister is ordinary and same with NCP, Cat Driver, BPF, etc etc. None of us are special although some may believe it. Like the rest, they sleep, breath, eat and at some point die. No exceptions. Nobody who really will remember us a few decades after. And the world carries on just fine.

So, enjoy the life you have. Enjoy that first awake breath you take, that perfect morning or evening flight and that perfect glassy water landing or new plane. Be respectful. Learn and explore. Be willing to do those jobs “beneath” you as they can teach you as well as those around you. Move on if you don’t enjoy your job. Stand up for the important things in your life but put them in context because, in the end, all that really matters is the family and friends around you and the adventures you had on the way.

Hey. It’s Sunday.

[skybaron]

Oh ffs.

Sure. Maybe be a diplomat. Maybe ‘tell them to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip’.

Couch your language in a fashion that doesn’t bunch the panties like they’ve been bunched here.

But don’t mistake the message.

I can’t f***ing believe I have to elaborate:

“Time building is not compensation. The company pay scale is not the word of god. Contracts all come up for negotiation. F*** YOU. PAY ME.”

This made me laugh.

Dialogue inspired by a great film no doubt.


https://youtu.be/3XGAmPRxV48

Now, if we only had a “Paulie” type in contract negotiations...

[C.W.E.]

Anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows having the attitude of Fu.k you is not the way to start a career.

Those who think and act that way usually will not have much of a career.

[saltypilot]

In the immortal words of Ricky, “What comes around is all around”.

[North Shore]

No. You are ordinary. Just as I am ordinary, my neighbour is ordinary, the Prime Minister is ordinary and same with NCP, Cat Driver, BPF, etc etc. None of us are special although some may believe it. Like the rest, they sleep, breath, eat and at some point die. No exceptions. Nobody who really will remember us a few decades after. And the world carries on just fine.

So, enjoy the life you have. Enjoy that first awake breath you take, that perfect morning or evening flight and that perfect glassy water landing or new plane. Be respectful. Learn and explore. Be willing to do those jobs “beneath” you as they can teach you as well as those around you. Move on if you don’t enjoy your job. Stand up for the important things in your life but put them in context because, in the end, all that really matters is the family and friends around you and the adventures you had on the way.

Hey. It’s Sunday.

...[sniff]...pass the tissues, please...

[Pat Richard]

I know its a pilot thread, but from a very experienced AME, F*** You. Pay me.