Is it really turning to ice

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pelmet
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Is it really turning to ice

#1 Post by pelmet » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:22 am

This is not really aviation related except for the fact that I tried it once while up north and I was up north due to a flying job.

It is the idea that at -40, throwing a cup of water in the air turns to ice before it hits the ground. When I tried it, as far as I was concerned the water was not frozen when it hit the ground.

So watch the video....

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/07/asia ... index.html

The steam is coming from the hot water but as far as I am concerned, I can see the water itself hitting the ground. And why not use cold water? I guess the steam is not as impressive.

But maybe I did it wrong. Has anyone else tried this.
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Chris M
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#2 Post by Chris M » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:18 am

I tried this with my wife in Sioux Lookout last year with an outside temp of -38 C. The spray breaks up into very fine droplets and the cold/dry air makes the steam very dramatic, but there are still liquid drops hitting the ground.
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Flypilot
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#3 Post by Flypilot » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:58 am

Chris M wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:18 am
I tried this with my wife in Sioux Lookout last year with an outside temp of -38 C. The spray breaks up into very fine droplets and the cold/dry air makes the steam very dramatic, but there are still liquid drops hitting the ground.
Try it with hot water next time!
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Heliian
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#4 Post by Heliian » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:06 pm

Yes, it is also evaporating and some would still fall as a liquid as you're just throwing it out of a cup. It works best below -40 and with water just from boiling.

Pump it and aerate it and you've got yourself a snowmaker.
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mixturerich
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#5 Post by mixturerich » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:34 pm

If you use a super soaker full of hot water it’s a neat effect too
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photofly
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#6 Post by photofly » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:55 pm

If it’s not solid by the time it hits the ground, you’re just not throwing it up high enough.

Anything you drop out of an airplane at 30,000 feet is going to freeze for sure. So just throw harder.
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co-joe
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#7 Post by co-joe » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:17 pm

I think you're missing condensation nuclei.
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photofly
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#8 Post by photofly » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:24 am

Good point. Shouldn’t it supercool and turn solid he instant it hits the ground then, like freezing rain?
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ahramin
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#9 Post by ahramin » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:48 am

Condensation nuclei is required to go from gas to liquid, not the other way around and nothing to do with liquid solid state changes.
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Meatservo
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#10 Post by Meatservo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:43 pm

I don't know if it's turning to ice or not, but it definitely looks nice when it's really cold outside and the water is very hot. Something interesting is happening there. We can debate exactly what but it's still fun.
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photofly
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#11 Post by photofly » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:42 pm

ahramin wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:48 am
Condensation nuclei is required to go from gas to liquid, not the other way around and nothing to do with liquid solid state changes.
I don’t agree. Supercooled liquid water often exists below the freezing point, until something kicks off the crystallization process.
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ahramin
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#12 Post by ahramin » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:11 am

A supercooled liquid water droplet is a liquid. It has already condensed from water vapour to liquid around a condensation nuclei and then gets cooled below freezing.
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co-joe
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Re: Is it really turning to ice

#13 Post by co-joe » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:38 am

I get what you are saying photo, but for the sake of trying to speed up the process, I believe condensation nuclei would help. Below is a quote from the wiki article on snow making at ski resorts. No idea what an ina protein is though. I was thinking of dirt or dust....or even silver iodide like weather mod uses.

Ice nucleation-active proteins

The water is sometimes mixed with ina (ice nucleation-active) proteins from the bacterium Pseudomonas syringae. These proteins serve as effective nuclei to initiate the formation of ice crystals at relatively high temperatures, so that the droplets will turn into ice before falling to the ground. The bacterium itself uses these ina proteins in order to injure plants.[9]
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