Operating different machines.

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simplicity
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by simplicity » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:45 pm

jakeandelwood wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:35 pm
Meatservo wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm
Cat Driver, I want to start by apologizing for my comment about the hollowed-out watermelon. I was drinking after work (flying planes) and it seemed like a funny comment to make at the time.

I've been thinking about your question, and I believe the truth can be found by breaking things down into discrete actions that are representative of the various tasks at hand. In order to be completely objective of course one has to account for what particular oeuvre one is talking about, so I'll try to be clear as to which vintage of machine or time in history I'm referencing.

1: "Getting there"

PLANE: finding heading by referencing the nautical almanac to find the greenwich hour angle of Aries, converting to local hour angle (presuming you've been careful and you know your longitude), using the chart to correct for sidereal hour angle to find local hour angle of the star you've managed to spot, using astrocompass to sight the star and then set your gyro, mark that on the chart and continue dead-reckoning until you pick up the beacon more or less where you were hoping it would be

TRUCK: Stay on right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

2: "Docking"

PLANE: sail an Otter in floats into its spot between two other Otters on a busy dock in gusty wind with no swamper

TRUCK: Back your trailer into the loading port on the side of Wal-Mart "

WHICH IS HARDER: DRAW


3:"STEERING"

PLANE: Co-ordinate roll, pitch and yaw to maintain altitude, speed and course using instruments without being able to see out the window

TRUCK: Stay in right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

4: "NOT PLOUGHING INTO STUFF"

PLANE: flying through the air

TRUCK: rolling along the ground

WHICH IS HARDER: TRUCK

5: "Mental Math"

PLANE: magnetic variation, zulu time, descent angle, depressurization rates, rate of turn, VHF reception distance, available hold times, cold weather corrections, holdover times, tide charts

TRUCK: what time the all-night Denny's closes

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

6) "Staying Fit"

PLANE: technical exam every year, performance test including emergency scenarios requiring memorized procedures every six months

TRUCK: Whatever.

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

7) "Parking"

PLANE: Beach, Esker, Field, Rocks, River, Snow, Slush, Tundra...

TRUCK: WAL-Mart

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE



Now I could be a dick and go on and on and on, but I truly believe that truck-driving is honourable, honest work and I wouldn't normally denigrate it like Cat Driver constantly does by comparing it to aeroplane flying. I also believe that modern 705 copilots are dissipated, whiney, underachieving, pampered little pricks who would be too timorous to even attempt driving anything with a manual transmission, let alone without an FMS and autopilot. So, I'm not actually sure where I stand on this issue.
" backing into the loading dock at Wal-Mart" wow, if it were that easy! I've never backed into a Wal-Mart loading dock ever, but I've taken a rocking back and forth loaded fuel truck into places that most people wouldn't take their 4x4 pickups into
Want an award?

Go land a plane at minimums on a 2500' ice strip with a 35kt gusting crosswind. At night, with dim potlights that barely qualify as runway lighting.

Nothing you say can make me think driving truck is harder than flying. What so ever.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by Zaibatsu » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:55 pm

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digits_
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by digits_ » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:10 am

What about Zambonis? Imagine being a Zamboni driver. The pressure is always on. If you are late, thousands of people have to wait for you. A multi million dollar industry depends on YOUR skills to create top qualiy smooth surfaces.

They are obviously highly trained professionals, as there are rarely any fatal accidents. They drive on conditions you wouldn't dream of putting any other vehicle on!

CRFI limitations? Not for these bad boys, they just GO! Duty day limitations? Wouldn't dream of it! How many people start out as novice Zamboni drivers and make it to the NHL? Not a lot. More exclusive than AC I would say.

I heard some are pilots during their off season.

A friend of mine is a professional Zamboni driver. Never had any formal education. Drove Zambonis for 50 years. Back in the day when you basically had to spray the ice with a water bottle. Those were the days. He tried the trucking route. Wasn't for him. Never had an accident in his 50 years! Not once! He did it all, resurfaced ice on movie sets, resurfaced ice in Europe. He made good money doing it. He also trained other Zamboni drivers. Actually he wants to teach people how to drive Zambonis, but he has been trying to put his Zamboni together for years now and his Zamboni teaching license has expired.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:17 am

Go land a plane at minimums on a 2500' ice strip with a 35kt gusting crosswind. At night, with dim potlights that barely qualify as runway lighting.
Did you fly for Austin Airways?
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trey kule
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by trey kule » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:38 am

Digits, old boy, Your post of the operator was very good and clever.
I didn’t even know they had Zambonis on the island.

But I am afraid that your target audience might have missed the analogy.

Maybe when he gets his Zamboni built, he will renew his medical and instructor rating,
Shouldn’t be much over 90 by then, but still at the top of his game.
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digits_
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by digits_ » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:56 am

trey kule wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:38 am
Digits, old boy, Your post of the operator was very good and clever.
I didn’t even know they had Zambonis on the island.

But I am afraid that your target audience might have missed the analogy.

Maybe when he gets his Zamboni built, he will renew his medical and instructor rating,
Shouldn’t be much over 90 by then, but still at the top of his game.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.


:smt031
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C.W.E.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:49 am

A friend of mine is a professional Zamboni driver. Never had any formal education. Drove Zambonis for 50 years. Back in the day when you basically had to spray the ice with a water bottle. Those were the days. He tried the trucking route. Wasn't for him. Never had an accident in his 50 years! Not once! He did it all, resurfaced ice on movie sets, resurfaced ice in Europe. He made good money doing it. He also trained other Zamboni drivers. Actually he wants to teach people how to drive Zambonis, but he has been trying to put his Zamboni together for years now and his Zamboni teaching license has expired.
Well digits at least your friend seems to have accomplished something more tangible than being an internet troll making snide remarks every chance he / she gets.

If you are so accomplished as a pilot why not share some of your flying experiences with us? :?
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digits_
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by digits_ » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:35 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:49 am
A friend of mine is a professional Zamboni driver. Never had any formal education. Drove Zambonis for 50 years. Back in the day when you basically had to spray the ice with a water bottle. Those were the days. He tried the trucking route. Wasn't for him. Never had an accident in his 50 years! Not once! He did it all, resurfaced ice on movie sets, resurfaced ice in Europe. He made good money doing it. He also trained other Zamboni drivers. Actually he wants to teach people how to drive Zambonis, but he has been trying to put his Zamboni together for years now and his Zamboni teaching license has expired.
Well digits at least your friend seems to have accomplished something more tangible than being an internet troll making snide remarks every chance he / she gets.

If you are so accomplished as a pilot why not share some of your flying experiences with us? :?
See that's the part you often overlook: you can post on avcanada and share information without claiming you are an accomplished pilot.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:56 pm

See that's the part you often overlook: you can post on avcanada and share information without claiming you are an accomplished pilot.
Fair enough digits, rather than post negative comments about others why don't you post some stories of flying experiences you were incompetent in if you can't think of any flying you did that was an accomplishment.

That is assuming you are a pilot.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by jakeandelwood » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:39 pm

simplicity wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:45 pm
jakeandelwood wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:35 pm
Meatservo wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm
Cat Driver, I want to start by apologizing for my comment about the hollowed-out watermelon. I was drinking after work (flying planes) and it seemed like a funny comment to make at the time.

I've been thinking about your question, and I believe the truth can be found by breaking things down into discrete actions that are representative of the various tasks at hand. In order to be completely objective of course one has to account for what particular oeuvre one is talking about, so I'll try to be clear as to which vintage of machine or time in history I'm referencing.

1: "Getting there"

PLANE: finding heading by referencing the nautical almanac to find the greenwich hour angle of Aries, converting to local hour angle (presuming you've been careful and you know your longitude), using the chart to correct for sidereal hour angle to find local hour angle of the star you've managed to spot, using astrocompass to sight the star and then set your gyro, mark that on the chart and continue dead-reckoning until you pick up the beacon more or less where you were hoping it would be

TRUCK: Stay on right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

2: "Docking"

PLANE: sail an Otter in floats into its spot between two other Otters on a busy dock in gusty wind with no swamper

TRUCK: Back your trailer into the loading port on the side of Wal-Mart "

WHICH IS HARDER: DRAW


3:"STEERING"

PLANE: Co-ordinate roll, pitch and yaw to maintain altitude, speed and course using instruments without being able to see out the window

TRUCK: Stay in right side of yellow line; look out for signs

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

4: "NOT PLOUGHING INTO STUFF"

PLANE: flying through the air

TRUCK: rolling along the ground

WHICH IS HARDER: TRUCK

5: "Mental Math"

PLANE: magnetic variation, zulu time, descent angle, depressurization rates, rate of turn, VHF reception distance, available hold times, cold weather corrections, holdover times, tide charts

TRUCK: what time the all-night Denny's closes

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

6) "Staying Fit"

PLANE: technical exam every year, performance test including emergency scenarios requiring memorized procedures every six months

TRUCK: Whatever.

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE

7) "Parking"

PLANE: Beach, Esker, Field, Rocks, River, Snow, Slush, Tundra...

TRUCK: WAL-Mart

WHICH IS HARDER: PLANE



Now I could be a dick and go on and on and on, but I truly believe that truck-driving is honourable, honest work and I wouldn't normally denigrate it like Cat Driver constantly does by comparing it to aeroplane flying. I also believe that modern 705 copilots are dissipated, whiney, underachieving, pampered little pricks who would be too timorous to even attempt driving anything with a manual transmission, let alone without an FMS and autopilot. So, I'm not actually sure where I stand on this issue.
" backing into the loading dock at Wal-Mart" wow, if it were that easy! I've never backed into a Wal-Mart loading dock ever, but I've taken a rocking back and forth loaded fuel truck into places that most people wouldn't take their 4x4 pickups into
Want an award?

Go land a plane at minimums on a 2500' ice strip with a 35kt gusting crosswind. At night, with dim potlights that barely qualify as runway lighting.

Nothing you say can make me think driving truck is harder than flying. What so ever.
No, I don't need no reward. I didn't say it was harder or more difficult. Have you worked in both professions for any length of time? Unless you have then you can hardly say anything about how hard it is. So you can land a plane in a 35 knot X wind on a short icy runway, maybe I can to, never done it though. Maybe you can jump into a truck and butter thru the gears while climbing a grade in a loaded truck, or maybe you'll tear the drive shaft out of it before you get out of low range, I don't know. Keep feeding your ego though, just repeat it over and over in your head, "nothing is harder than being a pilot"
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simplicity
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by simplicity » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:05 am

jakeandelwood wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:39 pm
simplicity wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:45 pm
jakeandelwood wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:35 pm


" backing into the loading dock at Wal-Mart" wow, if it were that easy! I've never backed into a Wal-Mart loading dock ever, but I've taken a rocking back and forth loaded fuel truck into places that most people wouldn't take their 4x4 pickups into
Want an award?

Go land a plane at minimums on a 2500' ice strip with a 35kt gusting crosswind. At night, with dim potlights that barely qualify as runway lighting.

Nothing you say can make me think driving truck is harder than flying. What so ever.
No, I don't need no reward. I didn't say it was harder or more difficult. Have you worked in both professions for any length of time? Unless you have then you can hardly say anything about how hard it is. So you can land a plane in a 35 knot X wind on a short icy runway, maybe I can to, never done it though. Maybe you can jump into a truck and butter thru the gears while climbing a grade in a loaded truck, or maybe you'll tear the drive shaft out of it before you get out of low range, I don't know. Keep feeding your ego though, just repeat it over and over in your head, "nothing is harder than being a pilot"
I drove a tractor trailer for a bit over a year. Both container and flat bed.

I also never said nothing is harder than being a pilot. I'm just tired of people comparing it to driving a truck or bus because it's not comparable.
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valleyboy
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by valleyboy » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:46 am

harder than being a pilot"
If you believe that you are in the wrong profession. Being a pilot is not difficult at all. You need to apply yourself but difficult it's not. I made my living for over 50 years as one and yes sometimes a pain in the ass and the odd challenge but difficult certainly not.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by Bede » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:44 am

valleyboy wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:46 am
harder than being a pilot"
If you believe that you are in the wrong profession. Being a pilot is not difficult at all. You need to apply yourself but difficult it's not. I made my living for over 50 years as one and yes sometimes a pain in the ass and the odd challenge but difficult certainly not.
We find it easy because we have a lot of practice and have become good at our profession.

I have a couple of friends that are surgeons. They think surgery is easy too. Same goes for any other profession. Professions such as pilots & surgeons earn what they do not because the day to day is technically or intellectually difficult, but because they have the ability to deal with extremely difficult situations should the need arise.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by jakeandelwood » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:33 am

There are easy truck driving jobs and there are hard ones. I drive a single axle straight truck with an automatic transmission mainly, anyone with a class 5 licence and an air endorsement can drive it. I deliver home heating oil, the driving isn't hard, it's the crap you deal with once you get to your next stop. I get paid more than most class one drivers for a reason, we just hired an experienced class one driver to drive these little trucks, he says this is the hardest driving job he has had.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:02 am

If you believe that you are in the wrong profession. Being a pilot is not difficult at all. You need to apply yourself but difficult it's not. I made my living for over 50 years as one and yes sometimes a pain in the ass and the odd challenge but difficult certainly not.
Thank you valleyboy for putting this subject in its true perspective like you I also made my living as a pilot for over 50 years and I also did not find it difficult.

Try comparing flying an airplane to driving one of those huge off road logging semis that we have here in B.C. bringing tons of logs down those narrow, steep mountain side roads during the winter with snow and ice covering the road.

If you think flying is more demanding and more dangerous than that can you contact me and tell me where you get your drugs? :mrgreen:
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by Zaibatsu » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:29 am

You described about maybe 1% of trucking.

And you can still pull over and stop.

:weedman:
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:40 am

You described about maybe 1% of trucking.
That is true, however the risk factor and concentration required is for the whole trip down the mountain.

What percent of a given flight is high risk?
And you can still pull over and stop.
That is also true, however do you wait for spring to melt the ice and snow before you complete the trip?
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:49 am

Operating a turbine DC3 must be extremely difficult...
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by jakeandelwood » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:22 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:02 am
If you believe that you are in the wrong profession. Being a pilot is not difficult at all. You need to apply yourself but difficult it's not. I made my living for over 50 years as one and yes sometimes a pain in the ass and the odd challenge but difficult certainly not.
Thank you valleyboy for putting this subject in its true perspective like you I also made my living as a pilot for over 50 years and I also did not find it difficult.

Try comparing flying an airplane to driving one of those huge off road logging semis that we have here in B.C. bringing tons of logs down those narrow, steep mountain side roads during the winter with snow and ice covering the road.

If you think flying is more demanding and more dangerous than that can you contact me and tell me where you get your drugs? :mrgreen:
You pretty much just described truck driving in most third world countries.
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shimmydampner
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by shimmydampner » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:48 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:02 am
If you believe that you are in the wrong profession. Being a pilot is not difficult at all. You need to apply yourself but difficult it's not. I made my living for over 50 years as one and yes sometimes a pain in the ass and the odd challenge but difficult certainly not.
Thank you valleyboy for putting this subject in its true perspective like you I also made my living as a pilot for over 50 years and I also did not find it difficult.

Try comparing flying an airplane to driving one of those huge off road logging semis that we have here in B.C. bringing tons of logs down those narrow, steep mountain side roads during the winter with snow and ice covering the road.

If you think flying is more demanding and more dangerous than that can you contact me and tell me where you get your drugs? :mrgreen:
I fail to see how anything was "put into perspective." What a silly argument and what a strange form of ego it is that makes one downplay the objective "difficulty" of doing something with subjective ease after the benefit of 50 years of practice at it.
Let's say that your wife and children need to get from Winnipeg to Saskatoon and a random 18 year old kid is going to take them there in a type of machine he or she has never operated before. You have 15 minutes to explain to the kid how your vehicle of choice operates before you put the people you care most about in his or her care. Do you put them in a truck or in an airplane? I know what one I would pick for my loved ones.
Or if you prefer your cherry-picked, more extreme example of mountain logging trucks, let's try this: your family needs to get from the top of the mountain to the bottom. You can put them in the logging truck at the top of the logging road with the kid, or he can pick them up on a glacier in a wheel/ski equipped airplane and drop them off on a gravel bar at the bottom. Which one do you pick? I must admit, I wouldn't feel great about either, but there is still a clear winner here, and in my opinion it doesn't require mind altering drugs to see which one it is. But then, I probably don't take nearly as much Geritol as you.
Don't let your ego and narcissism make you disingenuous about the objective challenge of flying airplanes. Especially after 50 years of practice. Besides, you're probably not as good as you once were.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by shimmydampner » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:14 am

C.W.E. wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:17 am
If being a pilot is so difficult and takes so much intelligence to perform the task why is there no education requirements to become a pilot?

The only requirement is having enough money to get the licenses.
Once again, you're being extremely disingenuous. There are most certainly education requirements to become a working pilot. It is highly specialized and specific, but just because it doesn't take place at a university doesn't mean that it is not an education. There is also a great deal of self study required constantly. Then of course, there are the hundreds of hours a pilot will spend regularly training throughout their career.
I get that you're bored and looking for a wind-up, but there are probably better things you could do here with your significant experience beyond stroking your ego about how easy you found flying airplanes once you finally got good at it. Hell, at your age you'd probably find playing hopscotch more difficult than flying, but that doesn't mean it is. Why not share some useful insights or more interesting stories about your career? I enjoyed the story of your navigational difficulties in the twin otter up north much more than you maligning the job of a pilot.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by youhavecontrol » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:20 am

Backing up a picker truck with a tiny compressor trailer behind it was hard until it eventually became easy.

Landing a Cessna was hard until it eventually became easy.

That's what learning and practice does and its something to feel good about and is always inspiring to see.

Just don't let complacency kill it, or your ego cause your achievements to become some sort of cheap pissing match.
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by C.W.E. » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:53 am

Why not share some useful insights or more interesting stories about your career? I enjoyed the story of your navigational difficulties in the twin otter up north much more than you maligning the job of a pilot.

O.K. here is another one I wrote some time ago.



..................................................................................................................


Out of Africa - Four days in a Cat - By Chuck Ellsworth

Day One

The sun was just rising as I finished scraping the frost off the windshield of the P.B.Y. Catalina with a credit card. This is not the picture one would have of Africa, however it is Thursday July 22/99 and it is winter in Johannesburg. After eighteen days trying to find the cause of a high oil temperature in our right engine and fixing some other mechanical problems the decision has been made to leave so as to have a chance of making the Oshkosh Airshow.

Today's flight will be six and half-hours to Lilongwe Malawi and we have an all up takeoff weight of twenty seven thousand nine hundred pounds, including a crew of five, fifty four hundred pounds of fuel and nine hundred pounds of oil. Lanseria Airport is forty five hundred feet above sea level with ten thousand feet of runway, with the temperature at two degrees C. take-off poses no problem.

The weather en-route is excellent and we have filed V.F.R. for to-days trip. Whenever possible I have found it easier to fly V.F.R. in most of Africa due to the difficulty with radio communications at the altitudes we normally fly this type of aircraft. The terrain from Johannesburg is sparsely settled with low mountain ranges through Zimbabwe, Mozambique and into Malawi. The dense jungle we think of associated with Africa occurs only in a relatively narrow band at the equator, A lot of Southern Africa is quite barren until you get into the central part of the continent.

A highlight of this trip was crossing the Zambezi River half way through Mozambique. Not only is the Zambezi famous for its Victoria Falls but it was especially important to both me and my wife Pene who was with me on this ferry trip. We had canoed part of the river In Zimbabwe two years previous to this flight. We arrived Lilongwe at three fifteen in the afternoon and two hours later finished fuelling and had cleared customs and immigration. We had no trouble finding a cab, however finding a hotel was another matter.

In the end all we could find was a very poor quality cheap hotel and when we asked if there was a restaurant nearby the desk clerk informed us the hotel had a restaurant just outside next door. Judging by the quality of the hotel we thought maybe we could wait and eat the next day, hunger finally decided for us and it turned out to be the best meal of the entire trip. It was a Korean restaurant and the food was diverse and delicious, you just never know until you try sometimes.

I have been in over twenty countries in Africa and Malawi is by far the best, the people are not only very friendly but everywhere you go it is absolutely clean unlike most of Africa there is no garbage or junk anywhere. As well the plants and trees are very colourful and well looked after in the city.

Day Two

After the easiest customs, immigration and fee-paying routine I have experienced anywhere in the many countries that I have flown in we were airborne For Nairobi Kenya at seven thirty A.M. Once again we had perfect weather for our trip which took us up through central Tanzania.

Shortly after departing Lilongwe we flew across Lake Malawi which is famous for its diverse species of fish. There cannot be a better way to sightsee than from the big blisters on the P.B.Y. Catalina the view is spectacular as you can see not only ahead and behind but straight down as well. Again the countryside is similar to the previous days flight. We decided to take the Eastern route into Kenya so as to see Mt. Kilimanjaro this however was not to be as most of the mountain was hidden in cloud cover. Approaching Kilimanjaro we contacted their arrival controller to position report and were advised to report ten minutes prior to the Kenya F.I.R..

Next we were given a handoff frequency for Nairobi radar, we were unable to raise Nairobi due to our low altitude and the distance I gave this no thought at the time as I had not expected an answer at that altitude. Crossing from Tanzania into Kenya we were able to identify many kinds of wildlife from our altitude of fifteen hundred feet above ground, the minimum allowed when flying over the African plains so as not to disturb the wildlife. From this height the bigger game such as Giraffe, Rhino, Buffalo, Zebra, Elephant etc. are easily identified and plentiful on the vast plains such as the Serengeti and once again the Catalina is perfect for sightseeing.

Our arrival at Nairobi's Jomo Kenyatta airport, elevation 5300 feet was uneventful until ground control advised me that arrival requested I go to their radar room as they wished to talk to me. Before leaving the airplane I told the rest of the crew that this might take some time as I suspected this would be another typical African shakedown. Sure enough the controllers wanted to know why I had not reported the Kenya F.I.R. on their frequency, when I explained the altitude problem they asked why I did not call on H.F. I informed them I did not have H.F. however I had brought my overflight and landing clearances for all the Countries we were fly into or over including their airport.

I never did really understand exactly what obscure rule of theirs I may have violated resulting in their threat to charge me and seize the airplane. One only has to understand the game being played which is finding a way to receive forgiveness for your stupidity in having done whatever it was they decided you are guilty of. In this case after over an hour of arguing, pleading and going around in circles one of the controllers went for a walk with me. In return for a gift of one hundred and fifty U.S. dollars to show how happy I was with his decision not to charge me I was free to go.

I couldn't believe how cheaply I had gotten away this time; I must be getting good at the game. Kenya is one of the most corrupt countries in the world; it is everywhere especially the police. We better hope that some of our Canadian politicians do not decide to vacation there, as they will really get a chance to polish their skills in how to extort money out of us. Allow me to diverse for a moment while I am on this subject and compare the police in Africa versus British Columbia where I live.

The way I see it in Africa the police extort money holding an A.K. 47, in B.C. they are holding a radar gun, just a slightly different method. We had planned on a one-day layover in Nairobi before continuing on to Djibouti our next fuel stop. This became a five day delay due to the first officer deciding he was returning to California and several days later Dudley Lieveaux our engineer had to return to South Africa due to the time restraints on his being away from his maintenance business in Cape Town. I was really sorry to lose Dudley as he was a very experienced pilot and engineer and we would have to wait until London to replace him.

We now had several days to spare so Pene and I decided to take a day Safari and see more of Kenya and its wildlife, it was really worth the three hundred and fifty U.S. dollars as one never sees too much of Africa. All of the African game guides have an incredible knowledge of their country and its wildlife and vegetation, there is no better way to explore the country. On Tuesday five days after arriving in Nairobi our new first officer Richard Maier arrived from Johannesburg . We were unable to depart the following day due to a low ceiling which prevented us from navigating the route V.F.R. as it is very mountainous to the North East of Nairobi. It was not possible to file I.F.R. as the M.E.A. is 21,000 feet and the P.B.Y. will not reach this altitude. Our greatest concern now was the new overflight and landing permits running out as the time frame is four days after which you must reapply for the entire route. In our case this would include Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti, Yemen. Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Not only is there a lot of time involved in getting the clearances for the route it is very expensive costing several thousand U.S. dollars each time one goes through the process and this would be our third set of clearances.

It did not help knowing that at this time of year Nairobi can be low overcast for weeks at a time. But we were to finally have a change of luck as the next day dawned clear and no wind.


Day Three

We were up at four A.M. checked out of the hotel hoping to get all the paperwork and fees paid in time. For the first hour it went good we managed to pay the landing, parking and departure fees, then it was off to the weather and flight planning a walk of about half a mile. Weather was no real problem typical Africa, very little weather available for our route, so you take what you get and go. Flight planning is where we came up against the mind numbing stupidity of the African system. We were asked for our landing permit, I told them in the process of dealing with the air traffic controllers it got lost, the last time I saw it the controllers had it. Furthermore it was a departure clearance we were after today, we landed a week ago.

No amount of reasoning moved them, no landing permit no departure permit so another half mile walk back to the airplane and a search of every conceivable place it could be. Finally I found it in the Malawi file how the hell it got there I have no idea.

Half way to the control tower I see Richard coming, and he said lets get out of here I have the permit. What had happened is he had called the person in charge of Kenya C.A.A. and solved the problem paid the two hundred and fifty U.S. dollar navigation fee and lo and behold we had our departure permit. By now it is coming up on eight A.M.

We are running out of time to make Djibouti with some safety margin before dark, I will not fly in that part of Africa V.F.R. after dark it is bad enough running the risk of being shot down without adding another problem to the flight. We start up and ask for taxi clearance only to be told there was no departure permit for our airplane. We informed the tower we had the permit and they said not for that airplane, so I get out of the seat and get the paperwork give them the permit number and the problem was solved, our airplane was N9521C they thought we were N9525C so off we go.

Now we are in the holding bay for the runway and ask for take off clearance, only to be told we could not depart as they needed our landing permit number.

Lucky for us I had it and we were cleared for take off.

The usual radar vectors to clear their terminal area and good bye Nairobi and our friends in the radar room. The flight from Nairobi to Djibouti is planned for seven hours and thirty minutes, we now are in the most dangerous part of the trip. Due to the many local wars only one route was available to transit central Africa. We had to stay on the flight planned route or risk being forced down or shot down. Our route was through central Ethiopia and less than an hour into our flight low stratus started to form and soon it was at our altitude 7,500.

Eventually we were able to remain on top at 11,500 where we remained for the next four hours. With the help of high flying airliners we were able to report our position, altitude and estimates to Addas Ababa. The further we flew into Ethiopia the less our choices of where to go became in the event of an engine failure or any other problem that could force us to land. To the west of our track were the central mountains of Ethiopia and the southern Sudan, which is at war and a no fly zone. To the east is Somalia also a war zone not to mention the airplane we were flying was painted in U.S. Navy colours with a big U.S. star on it, to land in Somalia would be suicide.

Just prior to Djibouti we were approaching Eritrea another no fly zone. The Ethiopian controllers monitor the last one hundred miles into Djibouti and they allow zero deviation from the airway and are continually asking for estimates for the fixes ahead of us. Finally the cloud cover disappeared and we once again could map read. Our airway passed directly over Ethiopia's biggest military airfield and they were the controllers we had been talking to. After we passed the airfield Pene came up and asked us if we saw all the Jet fighters on the airport we just passed and we said yes, they looked like Russian Migs but at least they knew who we were. Prior to our arrival Djibouti we received the landing information and as expected the temperature was 42 deg. C. now we find out if our engine oil temperature problem is still with us. It was, by the time we were parked it had already climbed into the caution range.

We had fuel drums waiting for us and wouldn't you know it their hand pump quit after three drums, we left for town after dark not knowing when if ever we would get our fuel out of the drums. The taxi ride to the hotel was Pene's first real introduction to the real Africa first it ran out of fuel just out side the airport, he had a small can with enough fuel to get us to a gas station. The cab was a real beauty no door handles and no lights except one parking light on the right front. But all was not lost as Pene saw her first two camels, the driver slammed on the brakes and lo and behold there they were two camels we had just barely missed them. Djibouti is about as run down as any country can get and still have people live there, the hotel was a Sheraton the best in town, dirty run down and only one tap had water in our room.

We were to stay two days in this hotel waiting for our fuel. There was no thought of sightseeing as it is very unsafe for foreigners even in the daytime especially if you have a white woman with you, but she wanted to go on this trip so caused us no real problem. By dark on our second day in Djibouti we had our fuel and were ready to depart at sunrise.

Day Four

Up at four A.M. and the usual run around to finish the paper work and pay the charges we had not paid the day before. The plan was to get airborne when the temperature was at its lowest just at dawn. We had talked to the tower people and they agreed to allow us to depart with no delay so as to keep our oil temperature as low as possible.

This was our last problem with no fly airspace all we had to do was fly 65 miles east to an airway intersection then follow the airway up the middle of the red sea. Once again we must stay right on the centerline as we can see Eritrea just off our left wing and it is for sure a no fly zone. Somehow Eritrea has Mig 29's and all kinds of missles it is amazing that these countries have very little food or any other necessities of life that we here in North America take for granted, yet they are armed with the most modern of weapons. The right engine oil temp was a real problem but using minimum power with it we managed to get into cool air at 9,500 feet after one and a half hours of slow climbing.

The red Sea has the most beautiful coral reefs that extend for miles and miles just prior to entering Saudi Arabian Airspace. Our fourth day ended in Jeddah Saudi Arabia temperature 47 deg. C and once again no fuel available until tomorrow. We have done it in four days of flying, we are through the entire difficult airspace in Africa. This was to be the end of our trip to Oshkosh, we could not get fuel until three P.M. on our second day in Jeddah. When we departed at dawn the next morning the air temperature was over 30 deg. C. shortly after take off the right engine oil temperature could not be controlled leaving us no choice but to shut it down and return to the Jeddah airport. We stayed a further four days, we were on a general declaration visa which has a seventy two-hour time limit.

After two extensions we were deported to apply for a visa outside Saudi Arabia to fly the airplane out of the country when it is repaired. We flew to London stayed three days then home to Vancouver Island, I will return to Jeddah and ferry the airplane to London England where it will be stored until a sale is found for it.


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Hangry
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Re: Operating different machines.

Post by Hangry » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:51 am

TLDR
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L39Guy
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Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:04 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Operating different machines.

Post by L39Guy » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:44 pm

C.W.E.:

I googled you and it appears that your 50 years of flying has been mostly fire fighting, flying Catalina's, etc. Is that correct? In other words, most of your flying has been VFR type flying.

I am curious, have you ever held an instrument rating? Have you flown into high density airports? Have you flown sophisticated airline type aircraft? Have you worked in an SOP environment, a multi-pilot crew environment?

I am trying to figure out where you are coming from with your disdain for professional airline pilots and those with anything greater than a high school education.
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