FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

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igorcanuck
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FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by igorcanuck »

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complexintentions
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by complexintentions »

What's coming? A plane that can be flown remotely?

Pretty sure that's already been done for some time now.

Not just with one pilot, but with NO pilots on board.

Can you IMAGINE?! :lol:
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by linecrew »

complexintentions wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:48 am What's coming? A plane that can be flown remotely?

Pretty sure that's already been done for some time now.

Not just with one pilot, but with NO pilots on board.

Can you IMAGINE?! :lol:
To your point, how much do you want to bet that FedEx is somehow involved with funding this research: https://www.flightglobal.com/business-a ... 47.article
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by linecrew »

linecrew wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:52 am
complexintentions wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:48 am What's coming? A plane that can be flown remotely?

Pretty sure that's already been done for some time now.

Not just with one pilot, but with NO pilots on board.

Can you IMAGINE?! :lol:
To your point, how much do you want to bet that FedEx is somehow involved with funding this research: https://www.flightglobal.com/business-a ... 47.article
My bad...FedEx is involved with a different company on this concept. https://www.unmannedairspace.info/lates ... sna-c208s/
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by valleyboy »

I guess they will need to explore FDT's --- again!! -- let's see 6 hours and 2 legs - just about right :mrgreen:
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ZBBYLW
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by ZBBYLW »

What do they need to test? Of course it would work. If the cockpit layout is made in an ergonomic fashion for single pilot no problem.

The issues have nothing to do with getting a good airplane off the ground and back on.

It's redundancy. "hey skipper, didn't ATC say 5,000 not 4,000"
Safety, if one pilot eats the fish.
Workload management. Sioux City or that QF380 (try doing that single pilot).
What happens when one pilot is weak? Let's face it were not all Val Kilmer running around at 100% all the time or for some of us ever. Often times one of the pilots may help carry the other pilot along.

I see single pilot airplanes being very simple to create. Move buttons a little closer to the driver. It's the intangibles that won't get solved for a while.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Have you see the FedEx pilot compensation? It's no wonder they want to reduce the flight crew.
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“Bob”
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by “Bob” »

Sioux City was still a crash, but I bet FedEx 705 wouldn’t have happened single pilot. :wink:
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by Rockie »

A bunch of dead boxes have less impact than a bunch of dead people. But it'll be hohum until there is an accident that could have been easily prevented by another properly trained brain up front and then smart people, not to mention insurance companies, will be going...hmmm. Transport airplanes are full of reduncancies and electronic comparator warnings for a reason, and the PM monitor and feedback role has been given a much higher profile by flight departments everywhere these last few years for the same reason.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by ayseven »

I guarantee the day is coming. Once the airplanes become more and more automatic, one person will do. The same arguments were made when they got rid of the flight engineers: B747 with two pilots only!?? Why it cannot be! Is it safe? The companies have that as a low priority. It is perception more than anything, and not that encouraging for the pilot profession.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by ayseven »

I also think it has taken longer than it should have for this to come up. There is absolutely no reason you need so many switches and knobs that all need turning at the same time in flight. I think it has been made just to keep pilots busy. The technology has been with us for years. It is obviously safer with two, but that probably won't stop single pilot heavies from happening, especially with freight, as already mentioned.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

They have some pretty interesting functions with the Garmin G3000 systems on smaller turboprop aircraft. I think the Meridian or TBM have auto-descent functions in the event of an emergency and will also land at the nearest suitable airport in the event of pilot incapacitation. Mind blown.

With the right amount of stubborness and investment I'm sure these technologies can easily be scaled up to 705 turbine aircraft.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by Rockie »

It’s not about technology because that already exists today.
ayseven wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:35 am Once the airplanes become more and more automatic, one person will do. The same arguments were made when they got rid of the flight engineers:
Flight engineers used to be just that...engineers. They monitored and ran the complicated and decidedly unmonitored and non-automatic systems available at the time. They did not ever need to be pilots. Do you fly large transport airpłanes ayseven? I ask only because if you do your flight operations management is likely beating you over the head to not just sit there like a turnip when you’re PM. You have important things to do, and it’s not filling out the logbook.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by 185_guy »

Meanwhile in Canada...... TC recently makes it mandatory to fly a Twin Otter 2 crew while doing STOL.... errr.... RGR take-offs ..... guess it’s nice having help unloading the freight.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by ayseven »

It might seem important to the employee, and for long term training to eventual captaincy, but in the world of technology, it is just redundancy in human activity. The job of PM is a relatively new one. Cojoes were hired to sit and watch gauges and talk on the radio in the old days.

To your other point: every single one of the guys I knew in the late 70's early 80's that were hired by AC, all started as FE. They of course went on to be capt on big machinery.

Now, am I ready to get on an airplane with one person flying? One could argue two admittedly very qualified 23 year olds is not much better. But that is over for a while anyways.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by CpnCrunch »

Rockie wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:04 am Flight engineers used to be just that...engineers. They monitored and ran the complicated and decidedly unmonitored and non-automatic systems available at the time. They did not ever need to be pilots. Do you fly large transport airpłanes ayseven? I ask only because if you do your flight operations management is likely beating you over the head to not just sit there like a turnip when you’re PM. You have important things to do, and it’s not filling out the logbook.
What about something like the Hondajet? It can be flown single pilot and has push-button start, automatic lights, automatic anti-icing, automatic yaw damper, etc. Is there any reason why this kind of automation couldn't be implemented in a larger cargo jet?
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by Goodman5 »

ayseven wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:02 pm
"it is just redundancy in human activity. "
Shall we remove our alternate power sources/standby systems? Flight/safety critical systems in airplanes are made redundant. Triple redundant. Please try and explain to me why that is the case without contradicting your above statement.

If you still require one pilot to fly/operate the plane, then he/she must also be made redundant as a flight critical piece to the puzzle.

Also, redundancy is one of the many important roles the PM brings to the cockpit. I don't know how you could work in the airlines and not know this. Unless you believe pilots are supermen who never make mistakes or choke on crew meals. :rolleyes:
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by CpnCrunch »

Goodman5 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:53 pm

Also, redundancy is one of the many important roles the PM brings to the cockpit. I don't know how you could work in the airlines and not know this. Unless you believe pilots are supermen who never make mistakes or choke on crew meals. :rolleyes:
We're talking about transporting cargo here, not 300 people.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by Goodman5 »

No, ayseven was talking about the effectiveness/importance (or lack thereof) of the PM/Cojo.
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Re: FedEx quietly begin single-pilot tests - ATR 42

Post by digits_ »

Single pilot night flying might not be the best idea...

It might only be cargo, but a cargo plane crash still makes a big crater on the ground.
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