canadian north announcement.

[tailgunner]

Balfour....please enlighten us...
Cars 602.11 is the relevent regulation detailing what Transport requires PIC's to follow with regard to critical surface icing.You will note that it says frost/ice is allowed on the bottom surface of a wing in the area of cold soaked fuel. It also says NO ice/frost is allowed on the upper surface of the wing/ critical surface....There are no provisions for the teal team stated....
As i understand it, the operation of a Boeing with a frost covered wing is still, at this time, a no - no in Canada, regardless of how the Teal team reads the regulation.

[Flying Nutcracker]

Within the approved area of the upper wing we can have frost of up to 1/16 inch thickness. Anything outside of the area, OR, if there is precip in the air, OR if the temperature is less than 0 degrees celsius... it's a no go with frost within the approved area of the upper wing.


It's an OPSSPEC specifically for the company and in accordance with the NG AFM.

hope that helps

[double-j]

Balfour....please enlighten us...
Cars 602.11 is the relevent regulation detailing what Transport requires PIC's to follow with regard to critical surface icing.You will note that it says frost/ice is allowed on the bottom surface of a wing in the area of cold soaked fuel. It also says NO ice/frost is allowed on the upper surface of the wing/ critical surface....There are no provisions for the teal team stated....
As i understand it, the operation of a Boeing with a frost covered wing is still, at this time, a no - no in Canada, regardless of how the Teal team reads the regulation.

You are absolutely wrong about this. There is a provision in our ops spec allowing this exemption on the NG.

[oldncold]

has anbody in this thread go a clue of what jet fuel and the cost of tranporting up there is in the first place . not cheap, flying has always been more expensive than a car .

here is something to chew on the average driver does about 24000km a yr

(15,000miles) at a cost of 32km 21cents a mile plus insurance maintenance etc. 10500 $ to own operate a midsize car according to caa if you drive a pickup /fullsize suv , then it costs alot more of course.

this works out to about 2to 3 trips in a modern airliner per yearat $1500=2200 per ticket. tax in . the fuel used on the 200c 737 (copacious) amounts its speed alows you the consumer to save on the wear and tear on the vehicle. If you have ever sat for 2-3 days with a unruly child on a greyhound bus across canada or driven thru a prairie winter and snow squalls .sometimes it it these things which make me appreciate hi speed travel of the airplane. pass everything except an f18 and an oil refinery .

my only complaint of the nwt is the bhip which exculdes competitions and the inuvialuit which ends up costing everyone way to much due to its monoply

[FICU]

FICU, to the best of my memory Cambridge is the only sked location that requires a gravel kit, which means you have options to operate more effiecient aircraft on most of your route structure.

Kugluktuk is also part of our sked and we fly into 2 diamond mines which are also gravel. We do trips to Tuktoyaktuk, Resolute Bay, Kugaaruk, Hall Beach, and Alert... all gravel. The next problem is that we need combi aircraft with movable bulkheads and the -200 is the only one that can do it. I believe we looked into -300s and an STC for a movable bulkhead but then the recession hit.

Eastcoaster, the story I heard was that a codeshare was the preferred option, but Canadian North for whatever reason said no thanks. If you want to service a market, you have two choices, codeshare or direct entery. Codeshare was tried, all that was left was direct entery.

We were told Westjet pulled out at the last minute after they saw the load potential.

FICU, you and your "people" know what a cold soaked fuel frost exemptionis, right?

Yup but from what I heard this was beyond that scope... enough of that, let's move on.

[bmc]

Here are the choices for serving markets:

1. Interline with a ticket and baggage agreement, possibly filing joint fares.
2. Fly the market yourself.
3. Fly it yourself and also put your code on another carrier, or vice versa.

If a market isn't big enough, if the yield is unattractive, or you strategically do not want to work with a particular airline, don't interline or code share.

Serving a market or code sharing are not the only choices for accessing markets. Interlining is the most popular.

At an international level, AC does not have underlying route authority to many places or simply does not fly to them because the markets are too small. They can access them with an interline traffic agreement (either the IATA Multilateral Interline Traffic Agreement, or a bilateral interline agreement). They will then conclude a special prorate agreement that outlines how they'll settle interline revenues on market fares.

[sarg]

FICU, to the best of my memory Cambridge is the only sked location that requires a gravel kit, which means you have options to operate more effiecient aircraft on most of your route structure.

Kugluktuk is also part of our sked and we fly into 2 diamond mines which are also gravel. We do trips to Tuktoyaktuk, Resolute Bay, Kugaaruk, Hall Beach, and Alert... all gravel. The next problem is that we need combi aircraft with movable bulkheads and the -200 is the only one that can do it. I believe we looked into -300s and an STC for a movable bulkhead but then the recession hit.

Eastcoaster, the story I heard was that a codeshare was the preferred option, but Canadian North for whatever reason said no thanks. If you want to service a market, you have two choices, codeshare or direct entery. Codeshare was tried, all that was left was direct entery.

We were told Westjet pulled out at the last minute after they saw the load potential.

So 2 sked destinations, all the rest are charter. You made an economic decision not to get more effiecent aircraft, then complain that you cann't compete on a cost basis. The original statement still stands most of route structure could be serviced by more effiecent aircraft, including the NG. (Yes, I know the moveable bulkhead issue) Keep a couple of gravel kit machines for the charter work and charge a premium for the speacialized equipment.

Standard business practice has a penalty clause if one company opens the books to another for the purpose of stuff like codeshare/interline agreements or other similiar issue. As Westjet is a public company if it pays a penalty it will be a matter of public record in due time. If the management of Canadian North did not follow standard business practices or no penalty is paid I'll let you make up your own mind of what to think about your management and what it tells you.

[bmc]

There is no need to open books for interline or code share agreements.

If you are code sharing, you'll do an operational, safety and maintenance audit if you're putting your code on the other guy's metal. Interlining is simply agreeing to accepting each others tickets and baggage. A revenue settlement agreement spells out how much money each of you will take when selling tickets on each others services.