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BverLuver
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:28 am 
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Cat Driver wrote:

Here is a question for you BverLuver, who would you hire, a pilot who knows all the answers to all the written exams churned out by T.C but can't actually fly.

Or ...

A pilot who learned the answers to specific exams using any method available...and can fly and make decisions with great skill?



Cat Driver,

I wouldn't hire either. I don't hire people that take shortcuts. How can he make informed decisions with great skill if he doesn't actually know the information but has a good memory for spotting repetitive questions? I hire people that actually still know the answer if I change the wording of a question and answer.

So, having said that, I will also add that I am normally 100% in line with what you say. But, here is where I believe you are wrong. Memorizing answers and knowing the basis of the question being asked are completely different. You could have the hands and feet of Bob Hoover or Chuck Yeager, but if you don't know the instrument rules, procedures or weather patterns and are going into a strip with wx down to minimums, you are gonna kill yourself or someone else plain and simple.

BL


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Krimson
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:29 am 
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I'm fairly certain all FAA exams have every possible question posted by the FAA.

The PSTAR exam here in Canada is done the same way. Did you not use the questions provided by Transport (the exact same ones which appeared on the exam) to study? For ATPL exams, Aerocourse goes through great work to best recreate the questions which appear on the SAMRA and SARON. Would using their workbooks make you a bad pilot?


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BverLuver
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:32 am 
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tbaylx wrote:
I'd put my family on an aircraft with a guy who has good hands and feet and good decision making skills any day. I really could give a crap about how many regs he knew. Do what you have to to pass the exam and get the license then learn what you really need to know in line indoc and daily operations with the more experienced guys. Flew with a lot of guys overseas like that starting out in the industry. They could quote you the page number on the particular subject in the FOM but stick a thunderstorm in front of them on a dark night in the terminal area and it all came unglued.


Tbaylx,

You are making the assumption that a pilot in this position is going to spend some time with a mentor, when really he could be going in hard SPIFR as soon as he passes his flight test in the private world.

BL


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BverLuver
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:42 am 
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Cat Driver wrote:
BverLuver learning to fly is a many factored skill....it differs from driving a bus or truck due the third demention in which it operates......therefore one must understand aerodynamics and physics of objects moving through the air which has the capacity of ever changing.

...But the truth is it is not all that difficult to learn because the only education required is the ability to read and write and a basic grasp of math.

The written exames have degererated to a bizzare mix of multi choice answers that tend to confuse rather than teach.....


I do not disagree with any of that!

Quote:
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.


I also do not disagree with that at all!

We seem to be on the same page for the most part, now just rescind your other comments and we are even steven! :mrgreen:

I am kidding to be sure, but I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on this particular issue.

BL

Ps. I did not call you sleazy!


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Cat Driver
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:03 am 
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Do not lose track of the fact that knowingw all the answers for T.C .is only good for flying in Canada.

Some of us fly in many many different countries in brutal weather with limited or sometimes no ATC to guide us.....we do have Jepp charts and we do have decades of experience learning how to safely fly in all those different countries......and we probly wouldn't be able to pass their written exams either....but here we are safe and sound in our beds retired after decades and decades and tens of thousands of accident free flying of most every device made by man.

Go figure. :mrgreen:


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BverLuver
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:15 am 
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Cat Driver,

Regardless of how the questions are asked by TC or any other governing body, you know the theory behind instrument rules and procedures correct? Sidestepping this knowledge just to pass an exam would not allow us the decades of experience you and I share on the coasts or in the arctic or wherever, we simply would not have made it this far.

BL


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lilflyboy262
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:34 am 
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I was in the same boat as what Cat is describing.
I am onto my 5th licence.

I know how to fly an instrument approach.
I know how to hold.
I know how to track a VOR or NDB.

Finding out what they ask in the exams here is a big help for some people as they can skip the areas they know like the back of their hand, and instead concentrate on the areas that they are unfamiliar with.

Does this make me a lazy/sleazy/incompetent pilot?


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BverLuver
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Lilflyboy262,

You are experienced, with 5 licences, congratulations!! If you were a fresh CPL asking this question, then I would definitly say yes! Is it ok for inexperienced pilots to skirt the system, memorize specific answers to specific questions just to make it easier to write the exam? What if, a few days after their ride when they are released on their own, they encounter a rare situation when approaching an airport in IMC? But, someone told them that wasn't an important area to study for the exam, are you going to accept fault if he pile drives in because you told him, "don't worry about studying that, you may or may not ever encounter that situation"

I don't give a rats ass about the actual exam itself. People these days will do the minimum amount of work to pass the exam and then once it is passed do the minimal amount to pass the ride (which does not take much effort) and then they can be flying in IMC right down to mins with you and me the next day. Does that make you feel safe? We are not talking pilots with years of IFR experience here, we are talking about 150-250hr PPL's and CPL's or even 2000hr float pilots doing their IFR for the first or second time with very little or no actual IFR experience.

The OP was clearly looking for specific questions, despite what he later said, from the exam just as others have before him and certainly others will after. Read through some of the IATRA threads, this is what he was after and I will never condone that type of "learning". Mix a few variables into what the exam questions ask and put that person into a stressful situation and it will no doubt confuse when it matters the most.

As it seems I am the only one of this position, thank you for the debate, I am now done, feel free to give the OP all the questions and answers from the exam you just wrote.

BL


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flyinthebug
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:30 pm 
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BL... By your way of thinking, EVERYONE that has ever taken Aerocourse are lazy and sleazy? The weekend Aerocourses are designed exactly to do what Cat Driver and others have said. Memorize the questions that you can expect on the exam and not waste time digging through mountains of lawyer written regs meant to confuse rather than teach.

I went to an aerocourse to pass my INRAT and im glad I did. The instructor was beyond professional (RIP Peter Shewring) and they assist you to study the material you WILL see on the exam, and avoid all the fluff. Much like Cat, I wrote on monday and 75% of the questions were ones I had seen at the Aerocourse. Does that make me a lazy, corner cutting pilot? I really think it makes me a smart pilot, that I didnt have to waste time digesting material I will never see or experience once in my career.

I dont think this young man coming here asking for what he can expect on the INRAT is an unreasonable or lazy approach. I think he is wise to use every tool available to him. There was no internet when I did my training so we didnt have the luxury of reaching out to countless professional pilots for their input and guidance.

My advice to jp7500 is to pay the $300 (its like more than this now) and take the Aerocourse. It will get you through the exam and 1000s before you have done this exact same thing. Those preaching this is wrong, are likely ones that also took the course but now figure that they "made it" they can now chastize those that try to lessen the load of their training.

Fly safe all.


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cdnpilot77
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Aerocourse, AIM, CAP GEN and Pultz are what I used. Used all the practise exams, guess I'm sleazy and lazy too


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lilflyboy262
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:25 pm 
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BL.

This is only one part of the entire chain that is required to get a Instrument rating.
There is still a practical that the candidate must get through. You still have to put in the "Hard yards" to get through that one.


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Colonel Sanders
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:46 pm 
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I'm afraid to mention how I studied for both my FAA IFP and ATP writtens!

If it helps, over the decades I have seen very little correlation between
how someone performs on written tests, and how they fly.

For example, I ace written tests and TC thinks I'm the worst pilot in Canada.

Q.E.D.


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darbel
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:00 am 
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Classic Av Canada. A couple of days ago I posted on a forum to see if my books are out of date for the test I'm about to write and I get zero response. This one has two pages already, and it's all of jackasses criticizing other people for looking for help. Let's get it together people, I thought we were here to help each other out. That being said, I don't think exact questions on the INRAT should be given out, but areas to look for relevant info are fine. I'm writing the IATRA soon, I can't really help out with the INRAT, it's been a few years.


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Ramjet555
 Post subject: Re: INRAT Questions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Colonel Sanders gave some excellent advice.
I'm also resitting the INRAT and like Colonel Sanders, I've sat the exams
twice before.

I'll say this, you can study the AIM RAC and CAP GEN till the cows come home
and you fall asleep with your face in the books but, you won't know if you will
pass the exam without doing practice questions and exams that will test your
knowledge.

I'll use the standard practice material to determine my weak areas and then read
the the various resources besides the RAC and CAP to read see the same material
from a different writer, that is of course if one writer has not plagiarized another
which is a bit difficult not to do when all the resources are teaching from the same
material.

What I noticed was Selkirk have a wealth of materials, on line that is very well written.

If you about to write INRAT and want to discuss answers drop
me a PM.

Ramjet


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