King Air Frozen brakes

3=47 · Post by **3=47** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:22 pm

Just wondering what you guys that have been flying the 200 for years do to prevent fozen brakes?

one of the aircraft we operate seems to always have one stuck, it has high flotation with multi plate and brake de-ice

47

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:33 pm

Ride the shit ouf of them, and pound the landing.
High float gear with the cleveland brakes is bad for breaks freezing up. I was taught not to touch them while taxiing, but that does not work in deeper snow/ blowing snow. Ride em, heat them up, hang the gear to blow the crap out for a few extra seconds and land firm. Thats all you can do. also NEVER use the break deice on the ground except on the T/O roll and approach.
Also before you start taxiing, make sure there unstuck - learn how/where to pry the disks free. Before I got into the machine I would push on the wing to see if they were stuck. Worked for me.

Pitts99 · Post by **Pitts99** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:33 pm

A good way to prevent brakes freezing with the high flotation , is to use a lubricant called LPS. We spray taht liquid on the multidisc before each flight and avoid to use brakes on taxi. That works well, but the brakes are a little less efficient.

When it freezes, you gotta know how to use the good old screw driver to seperate the plates, and sometime a Herman Nelson is the only solution.

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:27 pm

I don't think the LPS is a very good idea

Captain Kangaroo · Post by **Captain Kangaroo** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:55 pm

KAG nailed it... Let the gear hang on Take-Off and bounce the shit out of it on landing!

Maybe not bounce

CK

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:56 pm

Find a rampie, and just soak each gear with about 200 litres of 180F Type I.

This works quite well when it is -25C outside...

However if you think you might need the brakes for stopping, and or the tires for grip you might want to avoid this one.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:49 pm

Basically what KAG said; Don't taxi through any wind rows at all more than 2" deep. If you do, you'll want to stop and apply type 1 all in and around the brakes. If they're frozen, learn how to pry them appart with a flat head screwdriver.

Land firm on the mains, no flare, just drive it on and usually that dislodges the ice. On dep, leave the legs down for a minute to blow loose snow off, just watch your max Vretract.

If you have brake de ice use it once airborne and watch that it shuts itself off after 15 minutes or you could have a fire hazard. Also you might get an erroneous bleed air rupture indication when you use the brake deice.

Once parked, rocke tha baby back and forth for a minute and you might keep the brakes from sticking (or so I've heard...never tried this). I always rock it back and forth once each side just to make sure they're not frozen.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:54 pm

Take a piss on it before you take off.

app flap · Post by **app flap** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:00 pm

in adition to what KAG said, we do this thing where we taxi it in while riding the brakes and what not, and then stop, give it like 45 seconds, then taxi ahead a bit, then give it another few seconds, then do it again. seems to keep the ice from forming where it shouldnt.

i also keep a screwdriver i like to call 'excalibur' in my bag, just in case the ice wants to get serious, and i have to go all . norris on its ass.

de ice fluid is sweet, hot coffee works too.

chubbee · Post by **chubbee** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:22 pm

If possible(company policies Re: dangerous goods) keep a spray bottle full of 90% isopropyl alcohol at hand it will DESTROY any ice it is sprayed on... but unfortunately will not stop future exposure to H2O from freezing on the brake dics as it has no residue... so can you not get hot(pneumaticallly heated) brakes for the -200 like you can for the 1900?? I thought the 300 350 had them? Or is that just for the BF Goodrich, ABSC style brakes not Cleveland??

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:37 pm

It was an option on earlier model Beeches, I think most of the later model 200, 300, 350's come with hot brakes.

Hey KAG, Why don't you use them on the ground? I can't remember...

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:42 pm

Brakes? You guys have brakes? We don't got no stinking brakes!

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:17 pm

This is why I like skids these days....

STL

tincanflyer · Post by **tincanflyer** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:09 pm

Pitts99 wrote:A good way to prevent brakes freezing with the high flotation , is to use a lubricant called LPS. We spray taht liquid on the multidisc before each flight and avoid to use brakes on taxi. That works well, but the brakes are a little less efficient.

When it freezes, you gotta know how to use the good old screw driver to seperate the plates, and sometime a Herman Nelson is the only solution.

Ya ok, lets put a lubricating oil on the brakes????!!!???

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:39 pm

You can reset the timer in the well, if you recycle the breaker

.
But my advice, is to not fly in the winter at all.

chief · Post by **chief** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:38 pm

Listen to KAG. He obviously knows his ...... We use to use this type of method at WW and it worked good. Only had to break the ice off once all yea rbut even then then captain said "i forgot to ride the brakes".

Pitts99 · Post by **Pitts99** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:40 pm

That really works for the LPS, and the brakes work pretty well even if they are suck wet in lubrican. That avoids a lot of problems. And those multidisc brakes are that efficient than a pilot could even blow a tire while applying full brake with the LPS on it.

Beechball · Post by **Beechball** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:25 am

I'll back up the LPS solution. My place has been doing it for years and nobody's ever reported any problems. For the first 5 minutes or so you have to be a little firmer on the pedals to hold the plane at a stand still on the ramp (dont rely on the parking brake) but after a few minutes, the difference becomes negligable on the brakes. In fact, it's not so much the "oil" per say that prevents the freezing but rather the chemicals contained in LPS that do the trick. The reduced braking action (again, only for the first few minutes) is more of a side effect of the LPS. By the time you line up, you will have no problem executing a "reject" if you've sprayed etc... Dont use the thick stuff #3. Use only the #1 LPS, nice and thin and sprayable. People dont generally admit to this little "trick" due to the legal / TC questions it raises. But if your multi discs are going to freeze on you, this is your ticket out. And you can taxi normaly after, no riding the brakes or abtaining from braking during taxi etc....

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:25 am

co-joe wrote:It was an option on earlier model Beeches, I think most of the later model 200, 300, 350's come with hot brakes.

Hey KAG, Why don't you use them on the ground? I can't remember...

The heated brakes do not put out near enough heat at idle thrust or even run up power to properly heat up the brakes - it's luke warm at best. Just makes the situation worse that much faster. This is for a 200, I have no experience on the bigger models.

abflyguy · Post by **abflyguy** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:31 am

Use the brake deice on approach that is what the system is for, if it works properly it will have them nice and toasty by the time you are on the ground. Put it on for takeoff and let the system work and make damn sure it turns off.
You can use them taxing out if you don't plan on sitting for a while stationary, if you are going to have to wait for traffic then leave it off and don't use your brakes just beta.
If you have no brake deice clean them off before you go and leave them hanging for a little longer after takeoff, and use the beta to taxi not the brakes.

towbird · Post by **towbird** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:04 am

I flew the King Air 100 without brake de-ice for quite a while.

We use to let the gear down until 400 feet to clean all the snow that might have stuck to the brake disc.

In 2500 hours, I blew only 1 tire and it was my fault. I did one of the best greaser I'd ever done. We never felt the plane touch down. The copilot was amazed until we were heading back to the hotel after putting all the covers and extension cord just to finf out we have to undo all that and bring the plane back to home base on 3 main tires.

Don't try to do fancy landing, just put the plane hard on the ground, it should break all the ice that could stick to the brakes.

Have fun this winter.

highlander · Post by **highlander** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:15 pm

If you need to use a fluid, use isopropyl.

don't use xL54 (orange stuff). it supposedly ruins the brakes sooner.

sinjin · Post by **sinjin** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:01 pm

As a rampy I will be the first to say is do what ever you can to avoid freeze up. In the even that thhey do freeze up badly isopropal does work, but it take a long time. For fast fixes we use a herman nelson, it costs money but works every time. (takes less than 3 mins once it is up and running)

pilot to dispatch · Post by **pilot to dispatch** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:20 pm

Pour methyl hydrate on them after you've landed. They don't freeze after that.

As well, it works good at cleaning the exhaust soot off the a/c when outside in minus temps.

Red Line · Post by **Red Line** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:55 pm

ahh, good 'ol methyl--is there anything it can't do??!