doug ronan removed as director from copa

[Docav8or]

To answer a few questions:

Doug Ronan was never voted out. He was removed by a slimy illegal gimmick of refunding his membership. He was not removed by any legal means and there was no basis on which to fire him, so that couldn't be done either. There remain a number of Directors on the Board with scruples who support Doug.

Doug was doing a good job and was supporting his members and I can assure you that he still has those objectives. Fixing the system is what needs to be done. We need an accountable executive who can and will answer questions and be responsible for their actions. We do not need a self- serving dictatorship whose actions cannot stand close scrutiny . Doug will take his properly elected position if given the option. He can take the heat and has no problems standing for and defending what he believes is in the best interest of aviation and the members who elected him.

A Special Meeting to get these answers and ask for open, honest, above - board ethical and moral action is definitely called for.

I voted yes!

[kamikaze]

The prime minister makes 320,400$ per year ... I hate Harper, but I still think he earns that money better than Mr. the president of COPA ...

[nofate]

I signed the petition, but it needs a lot more signatures. Maybe put a notice in the COPA Flight for all members to sign.

[172cyoocytr]

I am signer number 68 to the petition. I will email my aviation contacts with the urls to the petition and this forum.

I encourage you to sign the petition and make your fellow pilots aware of the issue.

Here is the comment I wrote on the petition:

I've been a member for over 40 years. I owe my medical to COPA. In those days COPA helped its members understand the secret rules of government bureaucracy. Do we see much of that these days? Or are our servants at COPA too comfortable with their counterparts in government?

[PilotDAR]

Or are our servants at COPA too comfortable with their counterparts in government?

Herein lies my lingering concern. I am a personal witness to issues of great importance to COPA members (Noise compliance and external loads requiring STC's for two) being discussed at public TC meetings. I personally reminded the COPA delegate to these meetings (as I was a COPA member at the time) that these TC initiatives needed to be presented to the COPA membership for "public" opinion to be heard. I watched the COPA newsletter for "news" on these subjects, and did not see what I considered any meaningful "call to arms". Now, aviation is hurting for these two subjects not being highlighted for more "discussion" with TC.

Subsequent to that, I raised my concerns with Doug Ronan about COPA not adequately representing its members. As COPA did not react to my concerns about membership not being well represented in some important issues, I chose to not renew my membership. Funny though, I do still get emails from COPA affiliates trying to sell me aviation products!

As I am not a member of COPA anymore, I am not able to support the petition, otherwise I would. However, COPA members, be careful what you ask for, you might get it! If COPA leadership comes back for membership consultation, as it should be, will you all stand up and be heard? Back in the days of looming noise compliance requirements, I could not raise any ire in Canadian GA myself! So, I gave up, my prop was approved!

[172cyoocytr]

Here are links to email addresses of COPA personnel:

http://copanational.org/COPADirectors.cfm

http://copanational.org/committee.cfm

http://copanational.org/Contact%20Us.cfm

[AirFrame]

What I'm reading is scaring me though ... 80-some percent salary? Lots of travel? Where's the promotion and lobbying?

The financial statements are available on the COPA site to put this myth to bed with. In 2012, total revenue was about $1.75M, salaries and benefits paid were about $750K. So somewhere about 40% of revenue (a guess without using a calculator).

Membership income alone, yes, is about $800K, but note that membership income is also only about 40% of the gross income... They get money from lots of sources.

Also, there was $23K spent on Promotion, which seems low but that's with no reference to compare to... Most COPA members come in via word-of-mouth, I'd guess. $272K was spent on Printing, which I would guess is mostly the newspaper. Mine gets placed in the airport coffee shop when I'm through with it, I know others who take them to doctor's and dentist's offices... I'd say a lot of them are good advertising.

Anyone familiar with corporations of this size will recognize that $200K annual salary for the President is on the low end. Just saying.

All of that being said, I don't agree that they should be circumventing the by laws that the membership voted in only days before.

[skymarc]

Sorry COPA is not a coporation but an association.
Spending almost all membership revenues on salaries is overkill.
What is COPA doing for you? Not much these days.

[H Christensen]

<snip> What is COPA doing for you? Not much these days. <snip>

On a personal level, I'll miss the COPA newspaper. On the deeper issues, hardly at all.
I do appreciate, however, that this isn't all black and white; that there are some things COPA can be proud of accomplishing.
The difficulty now is that this board has gone beyond its Best Before date. There is the stink of decay that MUST be remedied. If you haven't already signed the petition, please do so.

[floatin]

The difficulty now is that this board has gone beyond its Best Before date. There is the stink of decay that MUST be remedied. If you haven't already signed the petition, please do so.

Couldn't agree more and I'm # 76 on the petition. My aircraft insurance is through COPA and is due for renewal next month. It will be renewed with another company not associated with COPA. I'm a long time COPA member and my membership is due for renewal in Sep and I see no reason to renew it, and I will certainly send a letter to Herr Putska explaining my stand.

For quite some time now the COPA top end has been an "OLD BOYS CLUB" and you either agree with them or your thrown out. Its high time there was a shakeup at the top and a total change of management and direction.

[BGH]

Good luck getting a meaningful responce from the president - I sent him an email stating my concerns & the reply was that my concerns were forwarded to the directors;no reply from anyone else in over a week - very poor.

I also have tried over the years to get a reasonable insurance quote on my 185 from copa insurance people,their reply was very high compared to others ;when queried as to why such a high quote I was asked if I knew that the 185 was a taildragger?????
This last time I waited 2 weeks for a reply from their latest attempt at offering insurance & their reply was that they would get back to me at renewal time - haven't heard back from them in over a year.If you joined copa for cheaper insurance then boy have you been suckered.

I was 58 on the petition.

Regards;
Daryl
1500860

[Taiser]

I just got a quote to insure my homebuilt through EAA C-Plan and was quoted about $635.00 for a year of coverage!!! Didn't get a quote from COPA yet, but I find it hard to believe they will beat that. Not much reason to be a member of COPA anymore, I'll miss the monthly newspaper, but that's not enough to justify the only reason to be a member. EAA is cheaper and the magazine they put out is nicer anyways.

Anybody know the reason they (COPA) dropped the magazine format and went to the newspaper format? Was it just cost?

Here's my new deal to remain a member... if COPA insurance beats that quote by the price (or near the price) of my yearly membership, I'll stay a member. We'll see how they do...

[jasmantle]

I just got a quote to insure my homebuilt through EAA C-Plan and was quoted about $635.00 for a year of coverage!!! Didn't get a quote from COPA yet, but I find it hard to believe they will beat that. Not much reason to be a member of COPA anymore, I'll miss the monthly newspaper, but that's not enough to justify the only reason to be a member. EAA is cheaper and the magazine they put out is nicer anyways.

Anybody know the reason they (COPA) dropped the magazine format and went to the newspaper format? Was it just cost?

Here's my new deal to remain a member... if COPA insurance beats that quote by the price (or near the price) of my yearly membership, I'll stay a member. We'll see how they do...

On our group-owned C172, the quote from the COPA insurer was about $4400 - from the old insurance broker the insurance was a bit more than $2300. We didn't need to purchase the corporate COPA membership either.

YMMV.

[North Shore]

Hello, COPA? Anyone there?

I'm not a member, so I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I'm beginning to see a pattern here: tons of disgruntled members bitching in public... time to step up and do something about it, I think. If not, the grassroots are going to shrivel up and die, leaving you membershipless...

[AirFrame]

I'm not a member, so I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I'm beginning to see a pattern here: tons of disgruntled members bitching in public... time to step up and do something about it, I think. If not, the grassroots are going to shrivel up and die, leaving you membershipless...

76 members out of 20000 is "tons"? More like "less than half a percent of membership whining behind anonymous names on an internet forum."

After reading the "AvCanada" side of the story, it does appear that the COPA board has pulled a boner... Acting outside the bylaws to remove a dissenting voice. But it also seems like very few of its members care. Until someone on the board breaks silence and gives "the other side of the story," it's hard to be certain exactly what happened.

Disclaimer: I am a COPA member, and I'm also insured through COPA's insurer (hey, they had the lowest bid this year... I was surprised too).

[BGH]

When I bitch about something that bothers me -it's the director,or president tha tgets the first email;or phone call,just like this time - only the predidant replied & said he forwarded it to the directors for comment.I haven't heard a thing in over a week.

As for being anonymous - pretty sure copa can find me by my membership number under my name.

They did something rotten & need to answer for it.

Daryl
copa # 1500860

[Cat Driver]

76 members out of 20000 is "tons"? More like "less than half a percent of membership whining behind anonymous names on an internet forum."

Yeh, why would any flying organization pay any attention to a aviation forum where their members are upset over the way the top executives are running the organization?

After all it is only a flying forum read all over the world and so far it is just short of ten thousand hits.....hell that is nothing to worry about.

[AirFrame]

After all it is only a flying forum read all over the world and so far it is just short of ten thousand hits.....hell that is nothing to worry about.

You're still not getting it: 10000 hits, so if every one was a unique address (which it isn't) then half the members have read it, and only *76* want a meeting to change it!

[Cat Driver]

Oh I get it, many read it but few go to the bother of doing anything about it in an active manner.

However this has to be doing a lot of damage to the image of COPA and in time that organazation will fade into history from a lack of people willing to support a self serving group of managers.

By the way I quit being a member some years ago.

[Jungle Jim]

I got a reply from Kevin last night asking me to reconsider renewing my membership. He also stated that the Doug Ronan issue was explained on the COPA web page satisfactorily. For me it is a mute point at this point unless they make it right.

Jim

[AirFrame]

Kevin would love it if we all remained "mute" about it. But that's probably a moot point too.

[H Christensen]

The mute mutt is COPA.
For Mr. Psutka to tell a contributor to this forum that the letter from Mr. Hayes says it all is decidedly dodgy. Instead, it's the equivalent of a child's simple excuse of "Because" when challenged
It doesn't wash . . . but the silence seems to be working for them.
Psutka et al know that the firestorm is already beyond its 15-minutes, and if COPA just shuts up long enough the criticism will whither and die.
And they're probably right but -- GAWD -- I'd like to see that tactic, for once, backfire.
Make no mistake, COPA not engaging with AVCANADA posters is strategic.

[MrWings]

You are correct. This matter is closed as far as COPA exec is concerned. And, for most COPA members, if you don't read this forum you have no clue what is going on as it doesn't affect you.

GA is facing some serious threats and there is strength in numbers. COPA needs to be building bridges instead of burning them. I think the decision comes down to each individual come renewal time. Like an election, where you choose to support the government or not, your COPA membership is your ballot form.

[5x5]

The problem with any petition is trying to get it worded so that people will agree with all of it. If not, then they may well support the cause but not sign the petition because they don't agree with all of it. Not saying that is happening here, but it could be. And I agree that by not being more forthcoming COPA National is doing a real disservice to its members, but even more so to the local flights.

Most flights operate more or less independent from National on a day-to-day basis. And as such, National doesn't have a lot of impact on their vibrancy and local involvement. However, this issue calls into a lot of member's mind the value of continuing membership. Supporting a local flight does more or less indicate that you also support the national organization. So as members become more and more disenchanted by the lack of any meaningful messages from National, their displeasure is likely to surface as withdrawing from the local activities. That means the local flight - in no way associated with any of the funny business - suffers directly as a result of National's mismanagement of this issue. And that is truly a crying shame.

They may not not cancel their current membership as that money is already spent. However with the detachment that grows from less involvement locally, it's likely they will not renew membership when it comes due.

[Cat Driver]

Psutka et al know that the firestorm is already beyond its 15-minutes, and if COPA just shuts up long enough the criticism will whither and die.
And they're probably right but -- GAWD -- I'd like to see that tactic, for once, backfire.
Make no mistake, COPA not engaging with AVCANADA posters is strategic.

Just like in government politics these drones know that the vast majority of the people who keep them in power just do not have the time to be bothered with doing anything about changing the top management....

.......BUT....

If you Avcanada people want to really give Psutka and his flunky's a real headache you should make up a pile of posters and keep pinning them up on every bulletin board in every airport in Canada....all the poster needs to say is all COPA members should read this thread on Avcanada.

That just may gain some traction in removing these people from their power base in COPA.