Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

hst
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:44 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by hst » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:30 am

Illya Kuryakin wrote:I guy with 1400 hours turning down Jazz? Uness it's F18, or C5A time, he'll probably live to regret that.
Illya
Are you projecting your career choice(s) with that statement?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by hst on Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mône
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: PQ

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Mône » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:04 am

flythatwing wrote: Trust me I will never regret it.... This industry hasn't completely erased my self-worth and respect , there's no way I'm takin 34.5K a year to practise my profession and just to sit there for 5 years then go over to mainline to start all over again (maybe even for less $$ by that time)! No thank you!

I don't understand why any of you is surprised, Jazz has hired a fair bit of school grads and pilots under 1000 hrs (I know a few, hence the internal recommend and the call) and I expect the mins will go down as those dollar figures get more and more insulting... I was always interested in flying for jazz, but after seeing the new wages I don't think the airlines are in my future anymore, maybe the arctic regionals in the future if they don't follow suit and offer McDonald wages too but otherwise I am quite happy flying 703-704 in the prairies and making a livable wage.

And to all the other pilots out there considering this "career opportunity", please have some self-respect and self-worth and stop whoring yourselves for that airline suit and airline hat...The chicks won't dig your broke ass, your parents have supported you r grown ass long enough already, and the bank won't take your right seat Q400 time for a mortgage downpayment... I bet you the guy/gal sitting across the table doing your interview has no respect for you and think of you as a dummy for accepting such wages and work conditions.

Rant over. Gotta go warm up those engines it's -40 outside.

Ciao
I smell a troll... otherwise what kind of money do you make with 1400TT? Unless i'm really out of date on this industry, that kind of experience does not net a 50k+ paycheck. Whenever I had a job opportunity in the past I always had a good look at the general package and big picture. When I was a Be10 captain and had an offer from jazz, my initial reaction was to laugh at the 34.2k starting wage, but after digging a little bit deeper you start to realize you get a lot more bang for your coin than the gross figure. The 45k to 34.2k "paycutt" turned out to be offset rather easily with the general jazz package which i'm sure you are aware of since you turned down that job so quickly.

On a side note, as far as being McDo wages, I'd think twice before holding that speech in front of other very respectable working people in society ... myself realizing I was complaining about the stupid new 35k starting wage at jazz while the dentist's assistant was drilling a hole in my mouth...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Ypilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Ypilot » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:35 am

Is it true with the recent agreement new captains will reach a maximum of 80000$ instead of what seniors captains are now earning (130000$ Ish..)?


Mône, try to explain the perdiems at the bank when you want to buy your first house.
If you have to do 7 years FO at Jazz after doing 3 up north. Good luck getting a house before 40 years old or hope for your gf to make good money.
---------- ADS -----------
  

fish4life
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1692
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by fish4life » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:26 am

Mône wrote:
flythatwing wrote: Trust me I will never regret it.... This industry hasn't completely erased my self-worth and respect , there's no way I'm takin 34.5K a year to practise my profession and just to sit there for 5 years then go over to mainline to start all over again (maybe even for less $$ by that time)! No thank you!

I don't understand why any of you is surprised, Jazz has hired a fair bit of school grads and pilots under 1000 hrs (I know a few, hence the internal recommend and the call) and I expect the mins will go down as those dollar figures get more and more insulting... I was always interested in flying for jazz, but after seeing the new wages I don't think the airlines are in my future anymore, maybe the arctic regionals in the future if they don't follow suit and offer McDonald wages too but otherwise I am quite happy flying 703-704 in the prairies and making a livable wage.

And to all the other pilots out there considering this "career opportunity", please have some self-respect and self-worth and stop whoring yourselves for that airline suit and airline hat...The chicks won't dig your broke ass, your parents have supported you r grown ass long enough already, and the bank won't take your right seat Q400 time for a mortgage downpayment... I bet you the guy/gal sitting across the table doing your interview has no respect for you and think of you as a dummy for accepting such wages and work conditions.

Rant over. Gotta go warm up those engines it's -40 outside.

Ciao
I smell a troll... otherwise what kind of money do you make with 1400TT? Unless i'm really out of date on this industry, that kind of experience does not net a 50k+ paycheck. Whenever I had a job opportunity in the past I always had a good look at the general package and big picture. When I was a Be10 captain and had an offer from jazz, my initial reaction was to laugh at the 34.2k starting wage, but after digging a little bit deeper you start to realize you get a lot more bang for your coin than the gross figure. The 45k to 34.2k "paycutt" turned out to be offset rather easily with the general jazz package which i'm sure you are aware of since you turned down that job so quickly.

On a side note, as far as being McDo wages, I'd think twice before holding that speech in front of other very respectable working people in society ... myself realizing I was complaining about the stupid new 35k starting wage at jazz while the dentist's assistant was drilling a hole in my mouth...
Well the problem is your accepted a king air job as a CPT for only 45...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Mône
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: PQ

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Mône » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:14 pm

Because you know what the market was in 2005 in the province of Quebec?


@ Ypilot, I don't deny the fact the annual starting wage is low, and qualifying for a mortgage with that kind of salary is a challenge; however I did manage to buy my first house with 42k on the paperwork as the sole income earner... It was obviously not a mansion, but enough to raise 2 kids.
The 80k tops is for the "classic" operation, which will be only D8-300 after 2020. All pilots on the "Jazz" operation ie Q4 and RJ will have the full payscale up to 122$/h right now
---------- ADS -----------
  

fish4life
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1692
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by fish4life » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:09 pm

Mône wrote:Because you know what the market was in 2005 in the province of Quebec?


@ Ypilot, I don't deny the fact the annual starting wage is low, and qualifying for a mortgage with that kind of salary is a challenge; however I did manage to buy my first house with 42k on the paperwork as the sole income earner... It was obviously not a mansion, but enough to raise 2 kids.
The 80k tops is for the "classic" operation, which will be only D8-300 after 2020. All pilots on the "Jazz" operation ie Q4 and RJ will have the full payscale up to 122$/h right now

How is someone supposed to realize that was from 10 years ago when the starting wage is still pretty much back to there. Also you could get a house because houses were MUCH MUCH less expensive back in 2005.
---------- ADS -----------
  

AirMail
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:48 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by AirMail » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:44 pm

It's amazing how many pro welfare to-be recipients are willing to drag this already cancer stricken industry down even further. I think Jazz and Encore should re evaluate their pay. I'm sure they'll still get a bunch of potatoes lining up for 24k for FO... 35 for Capt on the Q. Maybe even lower, pay for PPC etc etc. Good times to be a "professional" rofl... pilot.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Mône
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:01 pm
Location: PQ

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Mône » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:59 pm

I generaly don't like to play the devil's advocate, but remember that from a company's point of view this is business. They'll try to go as low as they can and anybody would do the same in this offer/demand market for pilots.
Couple of things:
By offering these wages they are (imo) probably aiming to attract a younger crowd which would stay longer in the company making it a good investment for them.
The pilot group at Jazz fought hard over the last couple of decades to maintain high wawcon and went to bat (strike) a few times at their very own expense to keep it decent for the next hires. After all the doom and gloom speech, getting a shot at a future, granted diminished, for those who stay, leave or will come, is probably the best of the worse case scenarios when compared to what could possibly happen if the deal had gone south.
The elected MEC, and bargaining team worked hard since last year to come up with something to show. If you were employed at jazz and given a choice to vote on it, what would you have done?

I think the current picture at jazz falls into the "if you don't like it don't apply" category. At «1500TT, a job paying 35k with good benefits and great working conditions, decent career progression (wanted to use the word good but that remains to be seen if upgrades start happening at a more decent pace) is something to look at seriously imo.

As far as the general state of the industry in Canada, I do agree it is sad the way they paved the roads to the "majors". With this current governement, the means to negociate are greatly reduced and corporations easily have the upper hand; but i'm still hopefull retirements and expansion in companies abroad will make the momentum tilt in the pilot's favour.
---------- ADS -----------
  

flythatwing
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:41 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by flythatwing » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:06 am

Mône wrote:
flythatwing wrote: Trust me I will never regret it.... This industry hasn't completely erased my self-worth and respect , there's no way I'm takin 34.5K a year to practise my profession and just to sit there for 5 years then go over to mainline to start all over again (maybe even for less $$ by that time)! No thank you!

I don't understand why any of you is surprised, Jazz has hired a fair bit of school grads and pilots under 1000 hrs (I know a few, hence the internal recommend and the call) and I expect the mins will go down as those dollar figures get more and more insulting... I was always interested in flying for jazz, but after seeing the new wages I don't think the airlines are in my future anymore, maybe the arctic regionals in the future if they don't follow suit and offer McDonald wages too but otherwise I am quite happy flying 703-704 in the prairies and making a livable wage.

And to all the other pilots out there considering this "career opportunity", please have some self-respect and self-worth and stop whoring yourselves for that airline suit and airline hat...The chicks won't dig your broke ass, your parents have supported you r grown ass long enough already, and the bank won't take your right seat Q400 time for a mortgage downpayment... I bet you the guy/gal sitting across the table doing your interview has no respect for you and think of you as a dummy for accepting such wages and work conditions.

Rant over. Gotta go warm up those engines it's -40 outside.

Ciao
I smell a troll... otherwise what kind of money do you make with 1400TT? Unless i'm really out of date on this industry, that kind of experience does not net a 50k+ paycheck. Whenever I had a job opportunity in the past I always had a good look at the general package and big picture. When I was a Be10 captain and had an offer from jazz, my initial reaction was to laugh at the 34.2k starting wage, but after digging a little bit deeper you start to realize you get a lot more bang for your coin than the gross figure. The 45k to 34.2k "paycutt" turned out to be offset rather easily with the general jazz package which i'm sure you are aware of since you turned down that job so quickly.

On a side note, as far as being McDo wages, I'd think twice before holding that speech in front of other very respectable working people in society ... myself realizing I was complaining about the stupid new 35k starting wage at jazz while the dentist's assistant was drilling a hole in my mouth...
Problem is not only the money... It's that the position has no real potential as far as pay or career progression unless you want to go fly overseas after. Example, if I was to be hired there tomorrow I calculated it will take me close to 7 years to make what I make now! (Don't count per diems cause it is NOT pay).. It would take me even longer if I make it to mainline since I will probably have to go down the seniority list again.

Also regarding that dental assistant, did he/she spend upward of 60K on their training ? Did they have to go work the ramp for a year tossing bags in -40 to get their chance at a seat ? Did they have to live in buttduck nowhere for 2 years to get experience and move up ? They made a career choice and it's not my fault that their career choice pays peanuts. I worked hard and followed my dreams and became a PROFESSIONAL PILOT so yes I deserve to be paid like a one.
---------- ADS -----------
  

flythatwing
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:41 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by flythatwing » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:09 am

Canoehead wrote:flythatwing,

Do you mind if I ask your age?
I'm in my early thirties. Did I sound old ? haha.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Ypilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Ypilot » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:17 am

Mône wrote: By offering these wages they are (imo) probably aiming to attract a younger crowd which would stay longer in the company making it a good investment for them.
And that is all they will get, kids of 21-23 who don't care about Jazz and can't wait to be the 777 captain at AC.

Jazz is sure to be the new mill where a 100% of pilots will just flow through as fast as they can. Bye bye experience and pilots who will stick around. Maybe it is what they want.


Most pilots that would go for a career at Jazz are those around 30 and more. Most are earning a good pay elsewhere and will not go those wages again.
---------- ADS -----------
  

loopa
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:57 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by loopa » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:20 am

Is it true that the experienced folk at Jazz make up over 50% of the roster?

Will these experienced folk really give up their seats at Jazz to go to AC, in turn dropping seniority, having worse schedules than at Jazz, and end up making less money?

I thought anyone who is already a captain and has a lot of years under their belt at Jazz will be better off staying put even after 2020, because the pay scale has only been stretched to reflect the same pay, except attained over a longer period of time. So if someone has already been at Jazz for 15+ years, it would almost make sense to just stay put.

Cause if the above is correct, then it kind of seems like the juniors are the ones that will head over to AC.

Am I wrong?
---------- ADS -----------
  

AirMail
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:48 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by AirMail » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:46 pm

I certainly understand what you are saying Mone. It is Jazz's business. And with a lower quality of pay and life, (let's face it, life style is affect by pay) comes a detriment to the company. If most of the experienced leave to AC, leaving 200 hr guys with little to no xp to fill their spot, incidents increase and likely the OTP that Jazz has done a good job of over the years will diminish.

What also amazes me in regards to how many pilots are willing to bend over, is the fact most companies fail to realize that it pays to keep employees happy and the experienced ones around. But it's all about the buck today. Company longevity, not so important.
---------- ADS -----------
  

KK7
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 856
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:41 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by KK7 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:58 am

YYZSaabGuy wrote:The question was how much experience was "needed", which I interpreted as what the airline's requirements should be.
No, I meant how much experience does one really need to fly this airplane competently. I am a Captain on a Q400. It is an easy airplane to fly. Sure I worked hard to get where I am, but really, do I really need all the experience I accumulated to fly this airplane competently? I got the experience the company required to get to the position I hold, but I think one could fly this airplane with far less.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Liquid Charlie
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:40 am
Location: YXL
Contact:

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Liquid Charlie » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:16 am

As someone who has spent enough time in this industry - like close to 50 yrs -- fuk -- really -- time flies when you are having fun -- the biggest decision you will have to make at a point in your career and likely the earlier the better is to take the hit in pay and get a seniority number and hope your choice was right as far as having a job until you retire -- JAZZ is a good company now and it has had a great number of lifers but they are the exception in level 2 carriers - the other 2 are the level 2 northern carriers as for the other connectors they do not offer career life styles but they also have potential if they organize and work on negotiating reasonable contracts but that would be 10 to 15 years down range -- yup it takes that long to achieve a contract that allows you cut down on the KY -- one can hold out for the level 1 carriers but there is no guarantee you will get hired -- but I am one who can verify there is a good life in canadian aviation without air canada or westjet
---------- ADS -----------
  
Black Air has no Lift - Extra Fuel has no Weight

ACTPA :kriz:

User avatar
BTD
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:53 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by BTD » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:16 am

flythatwing wrote:
Mône wrote:
flythatwing wrote: Trust me I will never regret it.... This industry hasn't completely erased my self-worth and respect , there's no way I'm takin 34.5K a year to practise my profession and just to sit there for 5 years then go over to mainline to start all over again (maybe even for less $$ by that time)! No thank you!

I don't understand why any of you is surprised, Jazz has hired a fair bit of school grads and pilots under 1000 hrs (I know a few, hence the internal recommend and the call) and I expect the mins will go down as those dollar figures get more and more insulting... I was always interested in flying for jazz, but after seeing the new wages I don't think the airlines are in my future anymore, maybe the arctic regionals in the future if they don't follow suit and offer McDonald wages too but otherwise I am quite happy flying 703-704 in the prairies and making a livable wage.

And to all the other pilots out there considering this "career opportunity", please have some self-respect and self-worth and stop whoring yourselves for that airline suit and airline hat...The chicks won't dig your broke ass, your parents have supported you r grown ass long enough already, and the bank won't take your right seat Q400 time for a mortgage downpayment... I bet you the guy/gal sitting across the table doing your interview has no respect for you and think of you as a dummy for accepting such wages and work conditions.

Rant over. Gotta go warm up those engines it's -40 outside.

Ciao
I smell a troll... otherwise what kind of money do you make with 1400TT? Unless i'm really out of date on this industry, that kind of experience does not net a 50k+ paycheck. Whenever I had a job opportunity in the past I always had a good look at the general package and big picture. When I was a Be10 captain and had an offer from jazz, my initial reaction was to laugh at the 34.2k starting wage, but after digging a little bit deeper you start to realize you get a lot more bang for your coin than the gross figure. The 45k to 34.2k "paycutt" turned out to be offset rather easily with the general jazz package which i'm sure you are aware of since you turned down that job so quickly.

On a side note, as far as being McDo wages, I'd think twice before holding that speech in front of other very respectable working people in society ... myself realizing I was complaining about the stupid new 35k starting wage at jazz while the dentist's assistant was drilling a hole in my mouth...
Problem is not only the money... It's that the position has no real potential as far as pay or career progression unless you want to go fly overseas after. Example, if I was to be hired there tomorrow I calculated it will take me close to 7 years to make what I make now! (Don't count per diems cause it is NOT pay).. It would take me even longer if I make it to mainline since I will probably have to go down the seniority list again.

Also regarding that dental assistant, did he/she spend upward of 60K on their training ? Did they have to go work the ramp for a year tossing bags in -40 to get their chance at a seat ? Did they have to live in buttduck nowhere for 2 years to get experience and move up ? They made a career choice and it's not my fault that their career choice pays peanuts. I worked hard and followed my dreams and became a PROFESSIONAL PILOT so yes I deserve to be paid like a one.
The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Canoehead
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 871
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:08 pm
Location: YEE 220 @ 4

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Canoehead » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:56 am

flythatwing wrote:
Canoehead wrote:flythatwing,

Do you mind if I ask your age?
I'm in my early thirties. Did I sound old ? haha.

No. Kinda the contrary.
---------- ADS -----------
  

flythatwing
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:41 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by flythatwing » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:08 am

The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.

I don't make peanuts... My first flying job on a small single piston paid more than what jazz is paying their new FOs now AND I got FREE accommodation. Sorry not sorry, no irony.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Canoehead
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 871
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:08 pm
Location: YEE 220 @ 4

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by Canoehead » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:09 am

KK7 wrote:
YYZSaabGuy wrote:The question was how much experience was "needed", which I interpreted as what the airline's requirements should be.
No, I meant how much experience does one really need to fly this airplane competently. I am a Captain on a Q400. It is an easy airplane to fly. Sure I worked hard to get where I am, but really, do I really need all the experience I accumulated to fly this airplane competently? I got the experience the company required to get to the position I hold, but I think one could fly this airplane with far less.
You and anyone can likely "competently" operate the airplane (or any airplane from an Airbus to a Zenith). That is really all the MBA's care about. What is more important to the profession, is can you operate it well? And if the chips are down, are you confidant in your own abilities and the person beside you? Just because someone thinks they are "experienced" (or are experienced according to company requirements) doesn't mean they are good. I made that point in the Transasia thread I think: they were touted as experienced pilots, but their skill in handling their issue tells me they really weren't experienced at all.

(A little side rant because I get tired of seeing mediocre pilots who think they are "good" at what they do; not aimed at you KK7).
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
BTD
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:53 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by BTD » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:39 am

flythatwing wrote:
The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.

I don't make peanuts... My first flying job on a small single piston paid more than what jazz is paying their new FOs now AND I got FREE accommodation. Sorry not sorry, no irony.
I meant that that statement could apply to our industry as well, or any industry. I didn't mean you individually hence (anyone).

The experience relevant to the job and the responsibility is what compensation should be based on among some other relevant things. Not how much we spent on education, how long we threw bags in what temperatures or how badly we want to be paid more. All that is irrelevant.
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:31 am

I'm sure two 1500 hour pilots can competently handle an A320, happens all the time in the military with similar types. However, when Capt Sullenberger landed on the river, I'm sure glad he was the PIC. From a legal point, the 1500 hour pilot could be just as qualified, but it was Sully's experience that saved the day.

Not to belittle anybody, but I'm sure a 100 hour pilot could be trained to pass a captain check ride on a Q400. Might take 50 hrs in the sim, but regardless, as soon as there's a situation not covered in training, their lack of experience will be disastrous.

Jazz used to pay for experience, and had a hiring requirement of ATPL, but now they don't seem to care as much.
---------- ADS -----------
  

flythatwing
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:41 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by flythatwing » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:38 pm

Liquid Charlie wrote:As someone who has spent enough time in this industry - like close to 50 yrs -- fuk -- really -- time flies when you are having fun -- the biggest decision you will have to make at a point in your career and likely the earlier the better is to take the hit in pay and get a seniority number and hope your choice was right as far as having a job until you retire -- JAZZ is a good company now and it has had a great number of lifers but they are the exception in level 2 carriers - the other 2 are the level 2 northern carriers as for the other connectors they do not offer career life styles but they also have potential if they organize and work on negotiating reasonable contracts but that would be 10 to 15 years down range -- yup it takes that long to achieve a contract that allows you cut down on the KY -- one can hold out for the level 1 carriers but there is no guarantee you will get hired -- but I am one who can verify there is a good life in canadian aviation without air canada or westjet
I do agree with you to a point and respect your experience regarding taking hit in pay (short term pain for long term gain) BUT the big question here is : where do we draw the line ?.. Would be a smart move now to leave a well-paying job on a well-maintained machine, where I am home every night almost to work somewhere for 7 to 10 years to make what I am making now ? And what's the next step after going to jazz ? Go to mainline and start from the bottom again since Jazz is only a stepping stone company now ?

I really have nothing against jazz or the fine guys/gals working there, everyone I know there is top notch pilot and individual. Jazz HAD to adapt to the cruel market (thanks to AG,SR and finally Encore) or vanish and I realize that...It just sucks to see another what used-to-be destination airline become a no-frills "come get your time and get lost kind of operation."

One Grumpy Pilot.
---------- ADS -----------
  

flythatwing
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:41 pm

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by flythatwing » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:42 pm

BTD wrote:
flythatwing wrote:
The irony of this statement is quite funny. The same could be said of any pilot. You (anyone) made a career choice and it isn't their fault it pays peanuts. How much we all paid for our training is irrelevant.

I don't make peanuts... My first flying job on a small single piston paid more than what jazz is paying their new FOs now AND I got FREE accommodation. Sorry not sorry, no irony.
I meant that that statement could apply to our industry as well, or any industry. I didn't mean you individually hence (anyone).

The experience relevant to the job and the responsibility is what compensation should be based on among some other relevant things. Not how much we spent on education, how long we threw bags in what temperatures or how badly we want to be paid more. All that is irrelevant.
Yes you are correct... Then look at it this way. A dental assistant makes a mistake, few stitches an apology and maybe a law suit and everyone carries on. A pilot makes a mistake, people lose their lives.
---------- ADS -----------
  

human garbage
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by human garbage » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:48 pm

... otherwise what kind of money do you make with 1400TT? Unless i'm really out of date on this industry, that kind of experience does not net a 50k+ paycheck
I was making 48K at 1109 TT. Survey work. That was nine years ago now too... Made 55K driving a 'Ho at ~1500 the next year so that wasn't just an aberration.

I don't have anything else to add to this thread. I've ditched aviation as a vocation due in large part to crap pay. Not judging, just saying, and to each their own. But I have a trades background and can make way more cash doing that instead of flying.
---------- ADS -----------
  
"...flying airplanes is really not all that difficult so it attracts some of the most mentally challenged people in society." - Chuck Ellsworth

"Baby, stick out your can... 'cause I'm the garbageman"

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Jazz GS with under 1500 hrs TT

Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:17 pm

flythatwing wrote:Would be a smart move now to leave a well-paying job on a well-maintained machine, where I am home every night almost...
Yep, you should leave now, and give me a good recommendation on your way out so I can have your job once you are gone. (meant in the most sarcastic sense possible).
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”