Exactly, the Stinson helped, also we had a mutual friend in sales.CpnCrunch wrote:That is a pretty sweet gig, but I imagine it isn't easy to find -- it's basically about having the right connections, luck, etc.SuperchargedRS wrote:Flying around a business owner in the mighty turbo arrow VICpnCrunch wrote:
What was your first job, SuperchargedRS?
However to be honest I would never recommend to a business owner that they hire a fresh CPL to fly them around. Someone who has owned their own plane for a few years would be a much better and safer option IMO. In your case, I believe you said you did own your own plane to get your CPL, and I imagine that helped you get your first job.
Rent a Plane?
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Re: Rent a Plane?
Re: Rent a Plane?
Who says you would be flying around for $100 burgers? You would likely be flying across the country in various weather, lots of mountain flying, managing maintenance, etc.SuperchargedRS wrote:So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about your those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.
Re: Rent a Plane?
You're not getting the 500 hours to compete with the 500 hour guys, you're getting them to compete with the 200 hour guys.SuperchargedRS wrote:So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.
Re: Rent a Plane?
Most importantly, making command decisions.CpnCrunch wrote:Who says you would be flying around for $100 burgers? You would likely be flying across the country in various weather, lots of mountain flying, managing maintenance, etc.SuperchargedRS wrote:So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about your those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.
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Re: Rent a Plane?
Meh, it's WAAAY different IMODonutHole wrote:Most importantly, making command decisions.CpnCrunch wrote:Who says you would be flying around for $100 burgers? You would likely be flying across the country in various weather, lots of mountain flying, managing maintenance, etc.SuperchargedRS wrote:So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about your those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.
Private flying, You're flying on YOUR schedule, under pressure only from yourself, you can't get fired, if you don't fly you actually have MORE money in the bank, etc.
Go fly jumpers, you'll only get paid for flying, so there is that pressure, the jumpers (with no ticket at risk and just enough aviation knowledge to be annoying ) will pressure you to do do stuff, they'll move around in the plane, massive CG changes on jump run, you need to turn loads quick and not hurt the plane while descending and climbing as fast as possible, you need to fly the plane the way the OWNER wants you to fly it, not the way you want to fly it, you'll need to hustle when you refuel, calculate how much fuel you'll need on the next fuel stop, how much you're going to burn for a hop n' pop in addition to that pass at 13k, plus the wind changed so where are you going to give them the cut, and you'll need those answers yesterday. You show up at the airport when the OWNER wants you to, you leave when the OWNER wants you too.
Same deal with gliders, banner ops, charter overseas, etc.
You think flying your own cross country on your day off, on your time, your rules, involves "command decisions" that's nothing compared to operating under someone else, someone who might not even be a pilot and someone who puts food on your table.
These are the things a fresh CPL needs to experiences, and the difference between logging hours as a PPL and logging hours as a CPL.
Besides it's a lot easier on the bank account to get PIAD vs PAYING to fly
Last edited by SuperchargedRS on Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Rent a Plane?
The most important command decision is knowing when to decide not to fly.
It stands to reason, more experience, more latitude in limitations... whether on your own or externally imposed.
But still, you're talking about a second job, not a first job. This guy needs 500 hours to get that jumper job, he's competing with people who haven't done any of that stuff either, but he's going in with almost 3x the hours.
You're talking about the job this guy is getting after he used his 500 hours to get a job dropping jumpers.
It stands to reason, more experience, more latitude in limitations... whether on your own or externally imposed.
But still, you're talking about a second job, not a first job. This guy needs 500 hours to get that jumper job, he's competing with people who haven't done any of that stuff either, but he's going in with almost 3x the hours.
You're talking about the job this guy is getting after he used his 500 hours to get a job dropping jumpers.
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Re: Rent a Plane?
Maybe not as sweet as you think, it sounds like my first job in aviation. It was flying a 182 around for a business owner. Got yelled at a lot, didn't get paid for a lot of stuff, but learned a lot about the bad side of aviation in Canada. That $500 would have been a raise back then. Owner was really resentful that he'd lost his medical and needed my services. Also didn't seem to understand the limitations of the plane. Fun stuff, good times!CpnCrunch wrote:That is a pretty sweet gig,SuperchargedRS wrote:
Flying around a business owner in the mighty turbo arrow VI
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
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Re: Rent a Plane?
Owner was good to me with the arrow.Shiny Side Up wrote:Maybe not as sweet as you think, it sounds like my first job in aviation. It was flying a 182 around for a business owner. Got yelled at a lot, didn't get paid for a lot of stuff, but learned a lot about the bad side of aviation in Canada. That $500 would have been a raise back then. Owner was really resentful that he'd lost his medical and needed my services. Also didn't seem to understand the limitations of the plane. Fun stuff, good times!CpnCrunch wrote:That is a pretty sweet gig,SuperchargedRS wrote:
Flying around a business owner in the mighty turbo arrow VI
There are jobs out there for wet CPLs, just gotta look and move around the country, or other countries.
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Re: Rent a Plane?
Owning your plane enables you to make flying decisions that you will not be otherwise able to make for a long time in a flying career. The boss does not want their plane out there in your "wet CPL" hands, taking risks, at their cost, so you can gain experience. You'll gain that experience only very slowly as an employee. Employed flying controls risk carefully, and therefore your opportunity to learn.
If you own your plane, you're making the decisions, you're gaining the experience, and the potential employer knows that. When I have has a say in hiring a pilot, the breadth of experience meant a lot more to me than the number of hours. I like the pilots who have crossed the continent a few times on their own, rather than the pilots who have left the province once.
One of the pilots I considered on behalf of a client came well recommended, but had a very narrow band of experience, largely as an FI, circuit to training area. Sure lots of time, but little experience. He was hard to tell. So he did not take advice well, and instead took a highly modified million plus dollar Cessna to his death. Another pilot I considered similarly found the place where the weather met the surface, instead of turning around.
So now, I consider the types of flying a pilot has done, much more than the hours in their log. There is no single answer, and yes, some lucky wet CPLs get excellent entry level jobs. But many more get passed over, when that extra one or two hundred hours of broad experience in the private beater plane would have made the difference...
If you own your plane, you're making the decisions, you're gaining the experience, and the potential employer knows that. When I have has a say in hiring a pilot, the breadth of experience meant a lot more to me than the number of hours. I like the pilots who have crossed the continent a few times on their own, rather than the pilots who have left the province once.
One of the pilots I considered on behalf of a client came well recommended, but had a very narrow band of experience, largely as an FI, circuit to training area. Sure lots of time, but little experience. He was hard to tell. So he did not take advice well, and instead took a highly modified million plus dollar Cessna to his death. Another pilot I considered similarly found the place where the weather met the surface, instead of turning around.
So now, I consider the types of flying a pilot has done, much more than the hours in their log. There is no single answer, and yes, some lucky wet CPLs get excellent entry level jobs. But many more get passed over, when that extra one or two hundred hours of broad experience in the private beater plane would have made the difference...
Re: Rent a Plane?
I agree with Dar. And it continues to blow me away that instructing is the first choice for many CPL's who have never left the circuit. And then furthermore will never leave the circuit and practice area while building their next 700 hrs, while surfing their IPhone. Yeah, Loads of seasoning and command decisions there.PilotDAR wrote:Owning your plane enables you to make flying decisions that you will not be otherwise able to make for a long time in a flying career. The boss does not want their plane out there in your "wet CPL" hands, taking risks, at their cost, so you can gain experience. You'll gain that experience only very slowly as an employee. Employed flying controls risk carefully, and therefore your opportunity to learn.
If you own your plane, you're making the decisions, you're gaining the experience, and the potential employer knows that. When I have has a say in hiring a pilot, the breadth of experience meant a lot more to me than the number of hours. I like the pilots who have crossed the continent a few times on their own, rather than the pilots who have left the province once.
One of the pilots I considered on behalf of a client came well recommended, but had a very narrow band of experience, largely as an FI, circuit to training area. Sure lots of time, but little experience. He was hard to tell. So he did not take advice well, and instead took a highly modified million plus dollar Cessna to his death. Another pilot I considered similarly found the place where the weather met the surface, instead of turning around.
So now, I consider the types of flying a pilot has done, much more than the hours in their log. There is no single answer, and yes, some lucky wet CPLs get excellent entry level jobs. But many more get passed over, when that extra one or two hundred hours of broad experience in the private beater plane would have made the difference...
You think as a wet 200 hr CPL now are fully qualified to teach the next crop of Air Asia captains? Rest my case.
Sorry it is what it is. And on my own next refresher training, when required, no way I consider using a green class 4. I'll stick to those with a lot more actual experience.
I don't hate flight instructors. I do have an issue with flight instruction, and especially advanced flight instruction, by those with precisely zero actual experience outside the practice area, and those not completely in love with quality instruction as an advocation, as opposed to gaining hours.
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Re: Rent a Plane?
Are you a instructor?Rookie50 wrote:I agree with Dar. And it continues to blow me away that instructing is the first choice for many CPL's who have never left the circuit. And then furthermore will never leave the circuit and practice area while building their next 700 hrs, while surfing their IPhone. Yeah, Loads of seasoning and command decisions there.PilotDAR wrote:Owning your plane enables you to make flying decisions that you will not be otherwise able to make for a long time in a flying career. The boss does not want their plane out there in your "wet CPL" hands, taking risks, at their cost, so you can gain experience. You'll gain that experience only very slowly as an employee. Employed flying controls risk carefully, and therefore your opportunity to learn.
If you own your plane, you're making the decisions, you're gaining the experience, and the potential employer knows that. When I have has a say in hiring a pilot, the breadth of experience meant a lot more to me than the number of hours. I like the pilots who have crossed the continent a few times on their own, rather than the pilots who have left the province once.
One of the pilots I considered on behalf of a client came well recommended, but had a very narrow band of experience, largely as an FI, circuit to training area. Sure lots of time, but little experience. He was hard to tell. So he did not take advice well, and instead took a highly modified million plus dollar Cessna to his death. Another pilot I considered similarly found the place where the weather met the surface, instead of turning around.
So now, I consider the types of flying a pilot has done, much more than the hours in their log. There is no single answer, and yes, some lucky wet CPLs get excellent entry level jobs. But many more get passed over, when that extra one or two hundred hours of broad experience in the private beater plane would have made the difference...
You think as a wet 200 hr CPL now are fully qualified to teach the next crop of Air Asia captains? Rest my case.
Sorry it is what it is. And on my own next refresher training, when required, no way I consider using a green class 4. I'll stick to those with a lot more actual experience.
I don't hate flight instructors. I do have an issue with flight instruction, and especially advanced flight instruction, by those with precisely zero actual experience outside the practice area, and those not completely in love with quality instruction as an advocation, as opposed to gaining hours.
For student pilots, even as a wet instructor, you know a lot more than a student pilot a have lots you could teach them, now if a ATP wants instruction he'll probably be looking else where anyways.
So yeah, instructing is one good choice for a low time dude.
Re: Rent a Plane?
I agree with you, I am curently in Africa,in Namibia i have handed out more resumes than I can count, i'm heading to Maun tomorow but I know the answer: 200hrs is not good enought, recently the requierments have been raised to 300 in two companys and 500hrs in the rest of them for all non native pilots.Where are you looking for work?
I hope your answer is you already tried every operator in Canada, put 10,000mi on your car, handed out resumes by the pound and shook so many hands you need some hand cream. Anything other than that and you're in the wrong industry.
Look into jobs in Africa, mainly Botswanna and Namibia, hiring season is pretty soon and they had a good turn over rate and lowish cost of living, if all else fails wait around and you'll get a job.
Getting your instructors isn't a bad idea.
Now as for the instrucor rating, first I don't have the 7K and on top of that as much as I respect instructors I agree with PilotDAR, as a class 4 you build time for sure butthe expierience you get is very limited (and i'm not a good teacher).
Maybe buying a little windmill is a good idea, i'll look into it.
Thank you all for your answers by the way!
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Re: Rent a Plane?
I must say that I'm really discourage and was trying to tell my wife that I should stop investing money in this dream.
I actually have another obstacle, my age. 37 Years and from what I have been seeing must companies are hiring under 30 and some push it to 35 for low time pilots.... more obstacles
I actually have another obstacle, my age. 37 Years and from what I have been seeing must companies are hiring under 30 and some push it to 35 for low time pilots.... more obstacles
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Re: Rent a Plane?
No the most important command decision is recognizing the situation is not what was expected andDonutHole wrote:The most important command decision is knowing when to decide not to fly.
that your previous command decision is not appropriate for the current situation.
It is harder to recognize you have made a mistake than it is to make the initial (what appeared to be) correct decision
IMHO
LF
Women and planes have alot in common
Both are expensive, loud, and noisy.
However, when handled properly both respond well and provide great pleasure
Both are expensive, loud, and noisy.
However, when handled properly both respond well and provide great pleasure
Re: Rent a Plane?
If you're not flying you're not Making those Mistakes.
You're three holes through the cheese where you would be none on the ground.
You're three holes through the cheese where you would be none on the ground.
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Re: Rent a Plane?
This sounds pretty good.SuperchargedRS wrote:
Look into jobs in Africa, mainly Botswanna and Namibia, hiring season is pretty soon and they had a good turn over rate and lowish cost of living, if all else fails wait around and you'll get a job.
Re: Rent a Plane?
I am currently in Namibia looking for jobs, i've been to Botswana as well. Their home DCA just passed a law wich requires you to have 500 hours of flight to get a work permit. It is not "low hours friendly" anymore. However the word is that it may change to 300 hrs during this year.Look into jobs in Africa, mainly Botswanna and Namibia, hiring season is pretty soon and they had a good turn over rate and lowish cost of living, if all else fails wait around and you'll get a job.