Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

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timel
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Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by timel »

Interesting read.
I don't think there is a shortage right now of pilots but globally a shortage of good conditions, it may eventually drive toward a real shortage.

IATA's bean counters should start understanding that crews are not animals and airlines are more profitable when employees are happy.
There is work to be done globally with all this P2F crap and globalisation non sense. All we hear about is IATA speaking of size of luggage, pilots getting psychological follow up or laser attacks...

Anyways food for thoughs on the profession. :)


https://disciplesofflight.com/pilot-sho ... pilots-go/
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by Boreas »

timel wrote:Interesting read.
I don't think there is a shortage right now of pilots but globally a shortage of good conditions, it may eventually drive toward a real shortage.
So potential pilots will go into other industries because its so much better there?

I'd like to think that's the case but I can't.

Maximizing profits while treating workers like shit is becoming the norm across the board. Its runaway capitalism coupled with the fact that there are over 7 billion people on this increasingly globalized planet, and rising. Throw in technology's net effect of eliminating jobs and you get exactly whats happening right now: The rich are getting richer and the middle class is disappearing.

It would have happened earlier if it wasn't for the Cold War.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by goingnowherefast »

Boreas wrote:So potential pilots will go into other industries because its so much better there?
I'd like to think that's the case but I can't.
I know a couple pilots and an AME that have left the industry for that exact reason. Nursing, construction, and one guy is driving a f*ing 18-wheeler and prefers it to aviation.
There are some good companies out there, but some are also pretty crap. Work for a string of bad companies, and it's enough to make people give up on the profession and the industry.

When the airlines and operators start complaining about the "pilot shortage", I just laugh and know that they brought it on themselves. There's lots of people who were professional pilots that said f*** this and are doing something else. About 25% of pilots I know said they would do something different if they could start over again.
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by goldeneagle »

Boreas wrote:So potential pilots will go into other industries because its so much better there?

I'd like to think that's the case but I can't.
I did just that, in 1990. Had I stayed flying full time, today, I'd probably be stuck in either Toronto, Calgary or Montreal, slave to a seniority number.

Life is good on my side of the fence.
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Audi
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by Audi »

Where'd all the pilots go?

My French is not so good but I believe this job ad requires 10 000TT

Now you know.
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by iflyforpie »

Soon you'll be able to go anywhere in the world for $100.... all flights connecting through Beijing or Mumbai.
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by Boreas »

We can find whatever examples we want. I know lots of guys that have moved into aviation as their second career. Teacher, engineers and architects - I've flown with these guys.

My take on this is that the grass is far from greener on the other side. What's happening in aviation is happening to one extent or another everywhere else.
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FL7377
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by FL7377 »

I've met people who've moved into aviation after careers in other professions and be happy as clams. And I've met people who've left aviation for a real job and be as happy as a clam!

Different strokes for different folks.
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timel
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by timel »

Boreas wrote:We can find whatever examples we want. I know lots of guys that have moved into aviation as their second career. Teacher, engineers and architects - I've flown with these guys.
I agree. The reality, it is more and more difficult to afford pilot training, some guys who come with financial background, it helps.
When I started my training the 172 it was like 105$/hr, now it is beyond 160$/hr in some flight schools.
My take on this is that the grass is far from greener on the other side. What's happening in aviation is happening to one extent or another everywhere else.
I agree again, I think this is the general trend, it is becoming more and more difficult, the price of rents, condos and houses keeps on growing in major cities, fuel will come back eventually, groceries is more expensive as well and CEOs are getting better bonuses every year...WAWCONs are going down.
Airline are making record profits.
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/09 ... e-20140210
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by North Shore »

iflyforpie wrote:Soon you'll be able to go anywhere in the world for $100.... all flights connecting through Beijing or Mumbai.
Ahhh...I'll walk, thanks..
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by iflyforpie »

You and I might, but the uninformed and ruthlessly stingy flying public will probably be overjoyed.... just like when they took that Liberian registered cruise ship last fall.
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by CanadianEh »

Not hard to find other jobs that pay more. And the old adage about "putting your time in and it will pay off" is bullshit. Talk to the thousands of American Regional Airline pilots getting recycled into the system when their regional airlines cost structure gets "too expensive" because of top-of-scale labour. Sickening
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rwy15
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by rwy15 »

Well yeah, check out Sunwing's vacation specials...how much of that $399 round trip is going towards paying the pilots...
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by North Shore »

^ I wonder? Lots of noise about TFWs there, but never heard people bitch about the pay?
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by FL320 »

rwy15,
You will be surprised but the pay you can get at Sunwing is one of the best around. Hourly rate is pretty much the same as at the other airlines; but you can easily make overtime...first year I made about 90K.
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by rwy15 »

FL320,

Then, I stand corrected!
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by Meatservo »

FL 320, are you a captain or a first officer? If you're an FO then you're right, that's pretty good. If you're a captain, well, you know.
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timel
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by timel »

It is well know Canadian FOs at Sunwing make good money with overtime, I think it is awesome.

But they also get tfw pilots, not fair for the Canadian pilots, they will destroy the market if this continues.
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by FL320 »

Meatservo, I was FO. I've flown with some Captains (Canadian) who were saying they earn well above 200K (I've been told 300K from a very senior guy). I've never seen their paycheck but I know it's easy to make some overtime at 1,5 then 2 times the hourly rate (plus the per diems if you deploy).
I've flown with some foreign Captains from Germany and I've seen their payscale; it's even better if you convert what they earn in euro (even the FOs). Most of these foreign pilots are not forced to deploy.
Czech pilots is another story....
I do not agree with the TFW; but I have to admit that QOL at Sunwing is not bad at all and it's not the cheapest employer around.
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Re: Pilot Shortage: Where’d All the Pilots Go?

Post by Mach1 »

I had a conversation a while back about life as a pilot. At the end of that talk, I asked what a commercial, mulit-ifr is going for these days. The gentleman told me $120K. I've asked around since then and heard everything from $105K to $120K. I know all you guys in Ontario get it for as close to free as can be... but lets put that aside for a moment.

The truth is, at these numbers, the economics of the job no longer make sense. You are going to pay $100K+ to get a $20K a year job upon graduation (if you're lucky)? You could spend that kind of money and be a doctor and make much more just in your residency. You could be a lawyer and make more during your articling. You could go to school and be a pharmacist and have a company pay for your entire schooling as a signing bonus to come work for them. The reality is, it doesn't make sense to become a pilot now... not unless something changes. The return on investment isn't there for us any more.
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