Beren's Band roasts air ambulance service in the media

[stef]

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/man-s-death- ... -1.2429752

Nurses and community members' ignorance making a bad situation worse. Too bad.

[Meatservo]

OK, so the nurses "did all they could" to save the man's life, but were let down by the cowardly pilots, who, although historically have been willing to land there in the daytime despite the runway's being too short, were to chickenhearted to attempt the same thing in the dark.

Well I can see that unless you are willing to risk your life and your co-pilot's life and your flight nurse's life, you are just no goddamn good to anyone as an ambulance pilot. I propose the nurses themselves be the ones to operate air ambulances. Then they can take whatever risks they like. Or I guess they could make the runway 60 feet longer.

[PositiveRate27]

Wow, pretty disappointing to see the lack of professionalism from that nurse. How hard is it to grasp that the runway is 20 meters short and the pilots refused to do that at night? The media should not be brought in to this kind of discussion. I understand their need for answers but it should be handled behind closed doors.

[YQkC]

That is a hella short runway at night in anything faster than a light piston twin

[Heliian]

I understand they're upset that they couldn't get an evac but that is the way it goes. If you want to live in the middle of nowhere, accessible only by air, then you have to accept the fact that help may not arrive in time. It sounds like this guy wouldn't have made it anyways but that's not the point. Just wait for the demands of government intervention.

[Liquid Charlie]

So explain to me why there isn't a backup plan to service a place with a shorter runway -- it should be set up so that the dispatch just calls an operator that can do it -- not sure who dropped the ball but it certainly was dropped and if the runway is too short at night then it is too short in the day light if you are going to quote regulations to cover your ass -- the nurse and the community have a legitimate beef - it seems to me reading between the lines the jet had been in there before which in my book nullifies the reason given on why they didn't go as far as the end user is concerned -- the blame lies wholly with the ambulance service and if one crew is willing to land there and another isn't then the crews are just as much at fault -- how many times have I seen pilots shooting themselves in the foot over the years because ace will go and studly won't - damn where is the operational control ---

[fish4life]

Perhaps it works with a headwind and that's why they landed there on other occasions. Also perhaps they did the same thing we did and got the runways surveyed to include the turn around bays as runway available so you can use them during the day but not night because they aren't lit up. It also would have helped if the band didn't allow someone to build a freaking hotel at the end of the runway.

[JoeShmoe]

I agree with charlie on this one, a runway cant be long enough during the day and too short at night. I can totally understand the nurses outrage in a situation like this although going directly to the media was probably a poor choice. If I were that nurse the whole situation would stink a little bit of the pilot not wanting to be bothered at 2 am. Its a shitty spot for the pilot to be in when it comes down to it this situation was really inevitable. Time for lifeflight to get a king air methinks.

[Pratt X 3]

Ok Superhero, you would have no problem taking your Citation into a runway, at night, in the rain with gusty winds, with no offically reported ceiling or visiblity that is described as thus:
Rwy 09(086°)/27(266°) 2888x75 crushed rock
Rwy 09 first 60' up 0.38%, next 600' down 0.30%, next 721' up 0.41%, last 787' down 0.45%
Have at 'er, Rockstar.

[switchflicker]

I think most of us pilots here on this forum know that there are different requirements for night operations and that runway length indeed does change after dark. Lights and things like visible obstacle clearance issues. But that's going to confuse some I suppose.

The issue here in my humble opinion is not the medevac, but rather that someone has died. That requires blame. No one dies for nothing, and the medevac pilots were just a bit too handy.

I have an idea. Why not blame the hit and .? He started the whole thing. If he didn't do the hit, the victim would have been on his merry way. Or is it not correct to place the blame internally.

Maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing again, and the medevac operation really did cause the death.

[Rookie50]

"Within a few minutes of giving my report the flight nurse said ‘I should let you know, we don't land in Berens River.’ I said excuse me? ‘We don't land in Berens River’,” said Rookes.
The province confirms Lifeflight has flown to Berens River more than 40 times between 2008 and 2015, raising questions with the chief."

Ok let's put those 2 facts together...assuming those quotes are accurate.

Why is this so automatically spun as the natives fault? The band had a contract for medevacs, who'd apparently been in there 40 times. Fine, sounds awfully sketchy for a jet! Not blaming the pilots.

But why wasn't the onus on life flight to find another alternative -- fast?

Why if the runway wasn't sufficient, (day or night) this wasn't resolved when life flight accepted the contract? WAs the band explicitly told -- no night service?

Just curious.

[Siddley Hawker]

Genuine question, is the runway lighted?

[Ki-ll]

The runway is lit, with PAPIs on both ends, there are some really good obstacles at the western end of the runway. Having flown there before in a turboprop both during the day and night I can say that it is not particularly challenging, however I can see how getting a jet in there would be a whole different situation.
Air ambulance dispatch could have called another carried with a turboprop machine, however none of these smaller carriers have medical staff and equipment that allow taking serious cases like this one. I can only imagine the consequence of someone dying onboard of one of those medevacs...

[Redneck_pilot86]

Lots of runways in the Yukon and BC are daylight only, anyone that thinks you can fly a plane in the dark as well as you can in daylight is kidding themselves. Its a shame that that this guy died, but it isn't even remotely the crews fault. I really hope no young medevac pilot sees this event and then goes out and kills their crew trying to do something they shouldn't because they are afraid of the backlash. This nurse needs to stick to nursing and leave the flying to the professionals before she gets someone killed.

[BE82]

landing a jet at night in Beren's? i don't think thats a great idea even a tub prop is sketchy..like some guys said it before instead of blaming the pilots this should be a wake up call and increase the runway by 1000'.

[schnitzel2k3]

But that costs the band money...and requires work and organisation.

It's easier to throw the flightcrew under the bus.

If they crashed or overran the runway this would be your typical...well they had pressure to perform article.

Good on them for saying no. Too bad for the fellow.

[CID]

Maybe the pilots should "speak out" and place the blame on the nursing staff for not performing surgery on the victim and saving him. Then we would have BOTH sides talking out their ass.

[flyinthebug]

I used to fly medevac and scheduled service into Beren`s all the time in a PA31-350 or C414. It is a challenging strip even for a light twin. Poplar River as I recall was even worse. That said, if they KNEW the jet "couldn't or shouldn't" go in there at night, why in gods name have they not got a plan B in place? Send a King Air 90 or even a PA31?? Are there not some operators left in MB that have contracts from the government to provide medevac service when needed? A back up to the provincial operator if you will?

I cant understand why they couldn't find a light twin to do the job, and get that person to a hospital?? Why didn't the provincial operator contact the smaller operators in the area and charter a Navajo or something that could do the job safely. They had 2.5 hours to pull something together...and by the time they finally did get a bird in the air, the man was dead.

Taking any jet in or out of Berens River at night, would be sketchy at best and illegal and dangerous at worst. I just am surprised they didn't have anyone in place that could step up and get this man to YWG? Sad and tragic for the people of Berens River.

My condolences to the family of the man lost. I think MB needs to review their entire medevac operations procedures, especially response time and CAPABILITY of their equipment. If they had already done this, perhaps this young man would still be alive. I guess the old school mentality of "get er done" has vanished, and we`ll just let people die now because its against the regs to try and save them. Thankfully, we didn't have that mentality 20+ years ago and we got people to the hospital when they needed to be there. Im not saying that pushing aircraft limitations or wx is the right answer, but at least we could have a reasonable plan in place for situations exactly like this one....so next time the young man doesn't die.

One final FYI... and ill likely get flamed for this comment BUT...if 60' of runway was the only obstacle to doing this flight safely, id suggest the pilots really dropped the ball! 60' wouldn't have stopped me if I knew it was life or death. Call me a cowboy if you like, but human life matters to me and always has. I take great pride in some of the missions I flew as a medevac pilot, and I know for a fact that my actions as a pilot, saved at least 4 lives that I was directly involved with. Yes we broke duty time, yes we pushed wx, but we felt we had a job to do...much like ambulance drivers on the street. If there is a snowstorm and the roads are closed because the cops say its too dangerous...do the ambulance drivers then just park their cars and let people die? No, they push past their 15 hour day and get the job done. People count on medevac pilots to be there for them and I always believed that we had "different" limitations than on a regular flight. Maybe I took my job too seriously? Maybe I was wrong to push even my own limits of comfort, but when a life is on the line, I feel we have to push to give them a shot. Yet even more than this, why wasn't a light twin at the ready, to cover in cases exactly like this one?? Something we should ALL think about!

My $0.02 worth.
Fly Safe all.
FTB

[fish4life]

I lot of the other carriers in manitoba don't have the staff in the back end of the plane for this, lifeflight has their own more highly trained nurses and often a doctor on board. As to saying what's another 60' short of runway well where do you cut it off I am pretty sure they have to run the citation around under the 600 series rules because I they ran 700's like a private operator would have to they couldn't make any of the performance numbers work so think about that before you start saying the pilots should have pushed it. Besides when I flew medevacs I didn't even think about the whoever we were getting as people in my mind they were just another box it makes life a lot easier that way.

[flyinthebug]

I lot of the other carriers in manitoba don't have the staff in the back end of the plane for this, lifeflight has their own more highly trained nurses and often a doctor on board. As to saying what's another 60' short of runway well where do you cut it off I am pretty sure they have to run the citation around under the 600 series rules because I they ran 700's like a private operator would have to they couldn't make any of the performance numbers work so think about that before you start saying the pilots should have pushed it. Besides when I flew medevacs I didn't even think about the whoever we were getting as people in my mind they were just another box it makes life a lot easier that way.

I don't have the ability you do to "shut off" to human life.

Ask yourself this question...what if the "hit and run" victim was your dad, mom, brother, sister, best friend, or someone close to you that was in Berens on a fishing weekend? Id be willing to guess that 60' of runway wouldn't mean jack s*it to you...and you`d get in there and get them to a hospital. Why does it become different when we are talking about a young man from a Northern Community?

Maybe getting the Citation in was not a safe option, but that's why they should have had a plan B in place long before this happened. The aircraft didn't need to be medevac equipped...as if they had gotten him to a hospital in YWG alive, that would have at least given him the chance/shot that he never got. Im sure one of the nurses from Berens would have gladly jumped on a PA31 and tried to control the bleeding until they landed in YWG. He was never given a chance.

SMH.