A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

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FoamFly
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A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by FoamFly »

I have a few qualms about flying on this particular aircraft. I'll be flying from Toronto to Manchester on August the 12th. The departing flight is on an A330 (Operated by Air Transat), and there is little to concern me with regards to the A330, as I've flown many TransAtlantic journeys on said aircraft. However, the return flight is making me marginally uneasy; it's a relatively small aircraft, with a second-rate safety record.

What are your thoughts?

Is this plane a reliable long haul aircraft?

Am I correct in having issues relating to its safety?
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ahramin
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by ahramin »

Might I suggest the following book:

http://freakonomics.com/books/think-like-a-freak/

Particularly chapter 3.

For example, you may want to ask yourself how does the size of a transatlantic aircraft have an effect on its safety record? Or perhaps look up how many airline accidents in the last 5 years have been due to a problem related to the type of aircraft in the accident? How many of those accidents were caused by poor pilot training and company culture? Certainly if you line up a 330 next to a 310 it's easy to see that the 330 is easier to fly, has better reliability, and is more likely to survive a catastrophic event. But when you line up the causes of injuries and fatalities in airliners in recent history, you see that the aircraft type has a negligible effect on outcomes compared to the factors that actually cause accidents.
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FoamFly
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by FoamFly »

Whilst I fully understand what you've said, I think this might be important.

Logically speaking, smaller aircraft have less capacity for fuel. Airbus, in an attempt to combat this problem, installed a fuel tank in the tail of the A310. I'm a training doctor, so my knowledge of physics isn't great by any standards, but wouldn't this throw off the CoG?

Recently, this plane has had issues regarding its composite structure, a problem which doesn't appear to be prevalent in other aircraft.

According to airsafe, this plane has 1.36 accidents per 1 million flights, and while it may be low, it's topping the charts; in a bad way.
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Rockie
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by Rockie »

FoamFly wrote:Am I correct in having issues relating to its safety?
No.
FoamFly wrote:I'm a training doctor,
Are there any hospitals or doctors we should be concerned about?
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Liftdump
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by Liftdump »

I was going to respond to this, but now I'm not.
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ahramin
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by ahramin »

FoamFly wrote:I'm a training doctor
Ah, then you definitely want to get the above book. Chapter 2 is "The Three Hardest Words in the English Language". It's probably more applicable to doctors than any other profession. There is an excellent section on ulcers. Honestly is should be mandatory reading for anyone involved in life and death decisions.
FoamFly wrote:Logically speaking, smaller aircraft have less capacity for fuel. Airbus, in an attempt to combat this problem, installed a fuel tank in the tail of the A310. I'm a training doctor, so my knowledge of physics isn't great by any standards, but wouldn't this throw off the CoG?
Logically speaking, smaller aircraft also burn less fuel. Logic isn't going to get you very far when you lack basic knowledge. Small Airbii (320 series) do not have the fuel tank in the tail. All large Airbii do, including the A380. Interesting that you would mention CofG though. The fuel tank in the tail of the 310 is not there because the aircraft lacks fuel tank capacity. The fuel tank in the tail (called the trim tank for reasons that should soon be obvious) is specifically there to control CofG. For takeoff and landing the CofG range is rather critical, so the amount of fuel in the tail is carefully limited. Once in cruise though, it can safely be moved rearwards (by pumping fuel into the trim tank). This aft CofG makes widebody Airbus aircraft about 1% more fuel efficient on average than they otherwise would be.
FoamFly wrote:Recently, this plane has had issues regarding its composite structure, a problem which doesn't appear to be prevalent in other aircraft.
The 310 does not have a composite structure (it is has traditional aluminium fuselage and wings), but it does have some composite components. Perhaps you are referring to Air Transat 961 in 2005 (a decade ago) where the rudder departed the aircraft. After that incident Airbus updated composite inspection schedules and practices so hopefully the lessons were learned. Generally the newer the design of an airliner, the more composite components (and in some very new aircraft, structure) it has.
FoamFly wrote:Whilst I fully understand what you've said, I think this might be important.
FoamFly wrote:Am I correct in having issues relating to its safety?
I cannot stress enough the importance to you of getting a copy of the above book and learning a bit more about risk management. While we are quite happy to answer your technical questions about the 310 here, you have completely failed to understand that your questions doesn't make sense from a safety point of view. You are wasting your time trying to figure out if a particular aircraft is safe or not, when you could be spending it actually increasing your personal safety. Let me answer your question this way: Yes it is a reliable long haul aircraft. There are no safety issues with the 310 that are important. Your thinking that the plane type is important is in this case incorrect.

I wish you pleasant flights to and from MAN, and feel free to ask anymore technical questions about both the 330 and the 310 you will be flying on. Lots of expertise here to answer them.
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cncpc
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by cncpc »

FoamFly wrote:Whilst I fully understand what you've said, I think this might be important.

Logically speaking, smaller aircraft have less capacity for fuel. Airbus, in an attempt to combat this problem, installed a fuel tank in the tail of the A310. I'm a training doctor, so my knowledge of physics isn't great by any standards, but wouldn't this throw off the CoG?

Recently, this plane has had issues regarding its composite structure, a problem which doesn't appear to be prevalent in other aircraft.

According to airsafe, this plane has 1.36 accidents per 1 million flights, and while it may be low, it's topping the charts; in a bad way.
In Ireland, they call this a wind-up.
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Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
DanWEC
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by DanWEC »

Just wear a chute, just like all the flight crew do.
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ahramin
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by ahramin »

DanWEC wrote:Just wear a chute, just like all the flight crew do.
:lol: Not nice. In the 80s a friend of mine got onto a turboprop after spending a weekend skydiving away from home. For reasons that I don't recall he was wearing the chute loosely on his back and the lady he sat down next to asked him what it was: "My parachute". This was closely followed by "Stewardess, I'd like one as well please."
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FoamFly
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by FoamFly »

Thank you, Ahramin.

P.S, your knowledge about aircraft is outstanding. The requirements to gain moderator status are high here I guess.
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pelmet
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by pelmet »

FoamFly wrote:Logically speaking, smaller aircraft have less capacity for fuel. Airbus, in an attempt to combat this problem, installed a fuel tank in the tail of the A310. I'm a training doctor, so my knowledge of physics isn't great by any standards, but wouldn't this throw off the CoG?
Cancel your flight and try WestJet. They have flights to Ireland and you can the catch a connecting flight.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by CpnCrunch »

pelmet wrote: Cancel your flight and try WestJet. They have flights to Ireland and you can the catch a connecting flight.
As long as you don't mind picking up your baggage and worrying about what happens if there are delays. Air Canada is the only option if you want a true "connecting" flight.
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ahramin
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by ahramin »

FoamFly, after thinking about this a bit more it occurs to me I may have made an unwarranted assumption about your reasons for asking your questions. If it turned out that you really would have been safer on a different aircraft type, what would you have done? Cancelled the ticket and booked a different date or carrier?
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GyvAir
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by GyvAir »

What cncpc said. ^
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

There has been 12 Airbus 310 Hull losses in the aircraft's history

They are all listed here:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/typ ... 310/losses

Please find one where the aircraft was at fault in any form or manner.
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jet Jockey
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by Jet Jockey »

Worrying about the Airbus 310's safety record is totally ridiculous.
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crazyaviator
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by crazyaviator »

All those listed accidents appear to be from 3rd world airlines ,, so a no-brainer here. A-310 was a nice plane to work on !
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Chaxterium
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by Chaxterium »

Keep in mind as well that the A310 is the aircraft the Royal Canadian Air Force uses to transport the Prime Minister and various Heads-of-State.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC-150_Polaris

Also you stated is a relatively small aircraft. While it's true that it's smaller than an A330, it's not much smaller. It is still a wide body aircraft and can seat close to 200 people. I've flown on A310s countless times as a passenger and safety was never a concern for me.
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TopperHarley
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by TopperHarley »

Ill be the pilot of your flight on the 12th on the 330. Come up and say hi during boarding or after we land in MAN if you'd like. Transat has good crews and a safe record, you're in good hands!
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5x5
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Re: A310 - TransAtlantic Flights

Post by 5x5 »

Can anybody help me? I've misplaced this - Image
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